Legitimate observation/question

[Vespidie]

3 year turnarounds at both Minnesota and Baylor provide evidence to the contrary... Monken had a 3 year turnaround at Army. Dabo’s record at Clemson was average until year 4 after only winning 6 in year 3. Ed Ogeron won 10 games for the first time in year 3 at LSU.

I’m not sure why you think it’s impossible to change the trajectory of a program in 3 years.

Changing trajectory by year 3...definitely. GT has nowhere to go but up, right? Expecting records similar to what MN and Baylor have in year 3 is wishful thinking. MN, Baylor and even Army didn't completely revamp schemes, requiring a different type of football player to fill basic needs. MN always has big bodies along the LOS, and Baylor had talent before Rhule arrived although they lost plenty of talent, and Army will always be limited due to academics and the end game. Comparing factories like Clemson or LSU to GT is laughable.

 

[Vespidie]

I think it is two different groups....there is the group that thinks the personnel were not all that bad and the new regime should have been able to adapt to be competitive......then there are the idol worshipers who insist we must wait 6-8 years for results.

6-8 years is outrageous. By year 5, CGC will have turned the roster over, so we as fans should have a really good gauge on whether he's got it or he doesn't. Hopefully between now and then, if it is deemed that there are some coaching shortcomings, then the CEO has it in him to cut the cord, because by then it shouldn't be a player personnel issue.

 

[ibeattetris]

disagree 100%. A wins a win. Who cares if it’s 1 point or not. Still counts as a W.
Baylor and Minnesota are not top 5 teams but I’d give my left nut for their record and future right now.

A win is definitely better than a loss, and the margin of that victory doesn't matter. On the flip side, prior to the Penn State game, Minnesota's SOS was 109th. Their SOS with PSU and Iowa included is still only 84th. If we aren't getting 7 to 9 wins with that kind of schedule in 3-4 years, something is seriously wrong.

For context, in FEI history, GT has never had an SOS lower than 82. In all but 2 years it has been 55 or less.

 

[Vespidae]

I would also argue that both Ross and O’Leary was able to do this at Tech - three/four year turnarounds.

Geoff is no Bobby Ross. But, I hear that TStan, after the UGAG game, is going to give Geoff a 12 year extension that renews in full every year in perpetuity. So, we'll get there. (j.k.)

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Some of y’all are going to be severely disappointed and then you’ll magically be cheering. Collins is not going to change his plan to get players because some of you don’t like like some of the things he is doing. I’m sure he laughs at it like Johnson did. So the 404takeover stuff is ok, but the Above the Line stuff has to go. Ok, sure. Collins has a plan that includes luring teenagers to Georgia Tech, not a plan to attract a bunch of armchair wannabes. His career is on the line, not ours and he has already told us what his plan is and he’s not going to waiver.

Here’s what I’ve seen - Collins got us our first deep threat sure handed wide receiver we’ve had in years and he’s bringing in more of them. Jamious Griffin in limited action has shown he has moves and speed we haven’t seen since Dwyer. His OLine recruits are big boys. Sure, if he wins 3 games in 2021 then fire him. But he ain’t only winning 3 after this year so you can rest easy.

 

[Vespidae]

Some of y’all are going to be severely disappointed and then you’ll magically be cheering. Collins is not going to change his plan to get players because some of you don’t like like some of the things he is doing. I’m sure he laughs at it like Johnson did. So the 404takeover stuff is ok, but the Above the Line stuff has to go. Ok, sure. Collins has a plan that includes luring teenagers to Georgia Tech, not a plan to attract a bunch of armchair wannabes. His career is on the line, not ours and he has already told us what his plan is and he’s not going to waiver.

Here’s what I’ve seen - Collins got us our first deep threat sure handed wide receiver we’ve had in years and he’s bringing in more of them. Jamious Griffin in limited action has shown he has moves and speed we haven’t seen since Dwyer. His OLine recruits are big boys. Sure, if he wins 3 games in 2021 then fire him. But he ain’t only winning 3 after this year so you can rest easy.

Geoff isn’t laughing. I would bet he pays no attention to it.

The fact is, Geoff may win the battle and lose the war. He may land recruits, create buzz and vibe, and ultimately ... lose the fan base.

When he was hired, I thought ... we’re getting an SEC guy. Great! I feel like we got a MAC guy.

Doesn’t matter what I think. I’m supportive of the program and hope it works out. I still think he’s Butch 2.0 and that’s what I fear the most.

 

[ezbee]

Some of y’all are going to be severely disappointed and then you’ll magically be cheering. Collins is not going to change his plan to get players because some of you don’t like like some of the things he is doing. I’m sure he laughs at it like Johnson did. So the 404takeover stuff is ok, but the Above the Line stuff has to go. Ok, sure. Collins has a plan that includes luring teenagers to Georgia Tech, not a plan to attract a bunch of armchair wannabes. His career is on the line, not ours and he has already told us what his plan is and he’s not going to waiver.

Here’s what I’ve seen - Collins got us our first deep threat sure handed wide receiver we’ve had in years and he’s bringing in more of them. Jamious Griffin in limited action has shown he has moves and speed we haven’t seen since Dwyer. His OLine recruits are big boys. Sure, if he wins 3 games in 2021 then fire him. But he ain’t only winning 3 after this year so you can rest easy.

ok so I love Griffin. (Actually like his brother on the def line better!) however mason is alot better back than griffin is. And CPJ recruited Mason. I remember a few fonts talking about Griffin being the starter from day one. Didn’t happen and won’t happen next year unless there’s an injury or transfer.

Griffin is much closer to Howard than Mason and that’s not a knock. All are excellent players that do things a little differently from one another. Don’t need to knock CPJ recruits to build up Collins.

I do love A Brown and give huge kudos for his signing, will be a great player for us. (He just should never block on a WR screen like he tried to do last game when he and the TE got their arses tossed!)

I like the OL recruits a lot, fits what the team is moving towards. Like the skill positions. Lots of recruiting positives for the future. worried about the defensive line though and would love a great impact linebacker recruit.

Overall, disappointed with a lot I’ve seen this year but understand. I believe over the course of year three we will know what the future of this staff holds. However if we see back to back 60-0 games vs UGA our coaches should be worried. The big money boys won’t stand for uga to kick our *** like that. And I’d agree.

 

[JorgeJonas]

disagree 100%. A wins a win. Who cares if it’s 1 point or not. Still counts as a W.
Baylor and Minnesota are not top 5 teams but I’d give my left nut for their record and future right now.

It’s the future part that’s the issue. Their future isn’t bright. No one wins close games at this rate. If you play close games, you will lose some. They’ve gotten lucky. When they go 6-6 next year, people will think they’ve taken a step back, but they won’t. They’ll be a normal team that split their one score games.

 

[ibeattetris]

When he was hired, I thought ... we’re getting an SEC guy. Great!

Honest question. How many SEC coordinators who became head coaches are successful? Almost every Saban disciple has been under achievers. Kirby and Mario Critobal seem to be the most successful from Saban. Mike Locksley certainly hasn’t showcased anything special yet at Maryland. Jim McElwain is enigma. Fired for poor performance at UF despite 22-12 record and has Central Michigan at 7-4 this year.

For the non Saban acolytes, Charlie Strong looked promising but never lived up to expectations. Steve Addazio is serviceable, but not an example of SEC coaches leading to greatness. Cutcliffe is good. Manny Dias is a work in progress as is Geoff Collins. Neal Brown was at Kentucky a few years and seems okay but not great. Skip Holtz hasn’t been great. Doc Holliday was assistant head coach at UF for a couple years and has been decent at Marshall. Frank Wilson was assistant head coach at LSU and is 19-27 at UTSA. Tyson Helton still in his first year at Western Kentucky after being OC at UT. Justin Wilcox hasn't been great at California. Mel Tucker's first year still at Colorado. Chip Lindsey still new at Troy.

For coaches in the SEC
Saban DC at Mich St prior. Success
Chad Morris OC at Clemson. Failure
Guz Malzahn brought an actual high school offense to the SEC and dominated. OC at Arkansas and Auburn. Success.
Dan Mullen OC at Florida. Success.
Kirby DC at bama. Success.
Mark Stoops DC at Arizona and FSU. Success for Kentucky's standards.
Ed Orgeron. He's kinda coached everywhere. Success.
Matt Luke OC Ole Miss. Failure over three years.
Joe Moorhead OC at PSU. Only two years in at a school not known for being good.
Barry Odom DC at Memphis then Missouri. Middle of the road.
Will Muschamp DC in LSU and Auburn. Not a good HC but makes some good defenses.
Pruitt DC at FSU, UGA, and Bama. Too early to tell.
Jimbo Fisher. I honestly didn't know he was LSU OC back in the day before FSU. Success.
Derek Mason DC at Stanford. It's Vandy.

All this to say, CGC may end up being good, but having SEC experience doesn’t seem to mean anything. I feel like this is another one of those ones where people from the South over value the SEC media bias due to living in it. From what I can tell though, the majority of the good oc/dc seem to get promoted from within in the SEC rather than leave to become good HC's else where

 

[jacket_fan]

Honest question. How many SEC coordinators who became head coaches are successful? Almost every Saban disciple has been under achievers. Kirby and Mario Critobal seem to be the most successful from Saban. Mike Locksley certainly hasn’t showcased anything special yet at Maryland. Jim McElwain is enigma. Fired for poor performance at UF despite 22-12 record and has Central Michigan at 7-4 this year.

For the non Saban acolytes, Charlie Strong looked promising but never lived up to expectations. Steve Addazio is serviceable, but not an example of SEC coaches leading to greatness. Cutcliffe is good. Manny Dias is a work in progress as is Geoff Collins. Neal Brown was at Kentucky a few years and seems okay but not great. Skip Holtz hasn’t been great. Doc Holliday was assistant head coach at UF for a couple years and has been decent at Marshall. Frank Wilson was assistant head coach at LSU and is 19-27 at UTSA. Tyson Helton still in his first year at Western Kentucky after being OC at UT. Justin Wilcox hasn't been great at California. Mel Tucker's first year still at Colorado. Chip Lindsey still new at Troy.

For coaches in the SEC
Saban DC at Mich St prior. Success
Chad Morris OC at Clemson. Failure
Guz Malzahn brought an actual high school offense to the SEC and dominated. OC at Arkansas and Auburn. Success.
Dan Mullen OC at Florida. Success.
Kirby DC at bama. Success.
Mark Stoops DC at Arizona and FSU. Success for Kentucky's standards.
Ed Orgeron. He's kinda coached everywhere. Success.
Matt Luke OC Ole Miss. Failure over three years.
Joe Moorhead OC at PSU. Only two years in at a school not known for being good.
Barry Odom DC at Memphis then Missouri. Middle of the road.
Will Muschamp DC in LSU and Auburn. Not a good HC but makes some good defenses.
Pruitt DC at FSU, UGA, and Bama. Too early to tell.
Jimbo Fisher. I honestly didn't know he was LSU OC back in the day before FSU. Success.
Derek Mason DC at Stanford. It's Vandy.

All this to say, CGC may end up being good, but having SEC experience doesn’t seem to mean anything. I feel like this is another one of those ones where people from the South over value the SEC media bias due to living in it. From what I can tell though, the majority of the good oc/dc seem to get promoted from within in the SEC rather than leave to become good HC's else where

Well documented post. And somewhat agree. But I believe having SEC experience is valuable if only being able to deal with elite talent and how to coach it.

 

[laoh]

See how confused the fan base is? ATL refers to "Above the Line" as opposed to "starting line up". The #404Culture is the reference to the city. That … is actually a good thing and note, I didn't say to get rid of it.

My bad... My misunderstanding That said, we absolutely need to continue to sell the city to recruits. Would you rather spend your next 4-5 years in a hip, growing metropolis or in the boondocks surrounded by cows?

 

[Vespidae]

Honest question. How many SEC coordinators who became head coaches are successful?

Don’t forget Bobby Dodd. He did ok.

 

[awbuzz]

I don't know that we have any choice in the matter. I've said before in another post, but I will restate it here. I don't know that we had much choice in the matter to begin with.

A majority here seem to labor under the assumption that there was no possible way TStan was going to hire another option coach to replace CPJ. It's entirely possible this was the case, but it really wouldn't have mattered if TStan HAD been willing to go that route. As it stands, there are really on a few option coaches out there to replace CPJ. Monken at Army, Coach N at Navy, Bohannon at Kennesaw and maybe Fritz. After watching the hell CPJ underwent during his tenure here, which one of these coaches was coming to GT. Monken and Coach N have gigs where they can stay as long as they want and the expectations for them aren't nearly what they would be with our delusional fans. You can't hire Bohannon from KSU because he's entirely too raw to put in this role. Fritz is little better than Bohannon in that same regard. There simply aren't a lot of option coaches available, and ALL of them would be a clear step down from CPJ in terms of mastery of the offense.

That leaves transforming the offense as the only real option, pardon the pun. Knowing that we would have to change completely, the best coach was found to begin that process. In the end, CGC was hired and like it or not, here we are. If there is any real blame to be had, it probably should be laid at the feet of DRad for hiring CPJ. I know I predicted when he was hired, that when the time came to revert the offense, we'd be looking at 3-8 years before we were back to normal. As CPJ would say "it is what it is."

Now, I was as big a CPJ fan as anyone here, and I have a LOT of reservations about the current staff, but I also believe that we need to be honest about where we are and what it will take to get where we want to be. CGC is our coach, and, IMO, he deserves our support for at least three years. Time will tell if he can recruit and coach. Until then, all we can do is support our team. Griping about it won't help anyone.

 

[Vespidae]

My bad... My misunderstanding That said, we absolutely need to continue to sell the city to recruits. Would you rather spend your next 4-5 years in a hip, growing metropolis or in the boondocks surrounded by cows?

You might be surprised if you surveyed players. I would bet most of them would choose the small town. Everyone in town knows who you are. And they travel anyway, so getting to a big city is not that big a deal.

 

[GTRock]

You might be surprised if you surveyed players. I would bet most of them would choose the small town. Everyone in town knows who you are. And they travel anyway, so getting to a big city is not that big a deal.

It's not so much big city vs. small town. Atlanta is definitely an asset (that should be sold), as Miami is to UM, LA is to Southern Cal, etc.

There's just a lot more "on-campus" (coaching staff, facilities, gameday environment, fan support, academic support, the campus, student body, etc) that matters to recruits also.

Not to mention other factors like family, distance, program success, tradition, NFL players and prospects, current and former teammates, who else is being or has been recruited/committed, etc.

 

[Vespidae]

It's not so much big city vs. small town. Atlanta is definitely an asset (that should be sold), as Miami is to UM, LA is to Southern Cal, etc.

There's just a lot more "on-campus" (coaching staff, facilities, gameday environment, fan support, academic support, the campus, student body, etc) that matters to recruits also.

Not to mention other factors like family, distance, program success, tradition, NFL players and prospects, current and former teammates, who else is being or has been recruited/committed, etc.

Is it an asset? It is to students in the greater Atlanta area, but what if you come from Bainbridge?

I've been in the middle of recruiting events when the busses pull up in these cow towns. Auburn? Voted Happiest University Students in America. Everyone loves the vibe. Athens? Music City. And you are royalty. etc etc.

I think we get "confirmation bias" that kids who come to Tech love it because of Atlanta. I'm a marketer. Survey all those who were recruited heavily and didn't choose Tech. That's why you start. Not by predetermining the value proposition but by listening to what the customers (SA's want).

I'm betting there's a big gap.​

I read a recruiting letter to a prospect from a D1 school. Gag. It was all about "We, we, we … " and zero about "You, you, you.". Terrible.

 

[armeck]

Is it an asset? It is to students in the greater Atlanta area, but what if you come from Bainbridge?

I've been in the middle of recruiting events when the busses pull up in these cow towns. Auburn? Voted Happiest University Students in America. Everyone loves the vibe. Athens? Music City. And you are royalty. etc etc.

I think we get "confirmation bias" that kids who come to Tech love it because of Atlanta. I'm a marketer. Survey all those who were recruited heavily and didn't choose Tech. That's why you start. Not by predetermining the value proposition but by listening to what the customers (SA's want).

I'm betting there's a big gap.​

I read a recruiting letter to a prospect from a D1 school. Gag. It was all about "We, we, we … " and zero about "You, you, you.". Terrible.

Also, many parents may prefer that small town as there may be less "trouble" that can find them.

 

[Old South Stands]

Is it an asset? It is to students in the greater Atlanta area, but what if you come from Bainbridge?

I've been in the middle of recruiting events when the busses pull up in these cow towns. Auburn? Voted Happiest University Students in America. Everyone loves the vibe. Athens? Music City. And you are royalty. etc etc.

I think we get "confirmation bias" that kids who come to Tech love it because of Atlanta. I'm a marketer. Survey all those who were recruited heavily and didn't choose Tech. That's why you start. Not by predetermining the value proposition but by listening to what the customers (SA's want).

I'm betting there's a big gap.​

I read a recruiting letter to a prospect from a D1 school. Gag. It was all about "We, we, we … " and zero about "You, you, you.". Terrible.

A lot depends on where you come from. I grew up just outside of Brookhaven, a few stones' throws from the Atlanta city limits. There were still horse farms everywhere, and when you went on a trip to Perimeter Mall, you went over a two-lane bridge across 285 past a farm with cows. Across the street from the mall was another pasture with old chimneys still standing where houses had once been. That's the Atlanta I grew up in. The next decade saw a lot of growth. After attending Tech and living Downtown for 10 years, that cured me of ever wanting to live in a metropolis again. Atlanta has simply become unlivable, and you couldn't pay me to live there again. Moved to the South Carolina Lowcountry 20 years ago, and now it's become basically a smaller version of Atlanta with an ocean!

There is definitely something to be said about living in a smaller town, and many people like that. Easier to concentrate, and fewer distractions. The urban environment is going to appeal to certain types of recruits, but not all. At least you don't have all the flying bullets around campus these days like you used to in the '80s and early '90s. Back then you took your life in your hands sometimes walking off campus!

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

You might be surprised if you surveyed players. I would bet most of them would choose the small town. Everyone in town knows who you are. And they travel anyway, so getting to a big city is not that big a deal.

This is correct, and moms believe (right or wrong) that their kid is safer in a small town. The city is attractive to some, but it is definitely not a major selling point for the majority, in my opinion. Parents still influence their kids.

 

[Vespidie]

Well documented post. And somewhat agree. But I believe having SEC experience is valuable if only being able to deal with elite talent and how to coach it.

Don't forget about being able to tell a HS recruit that I coached at school XYZ, and that is what we are going to build at GT.