Legitimate observation/question

[GT Tennessee]

(Not going after Coach Collins) So, just based off of outside observation, I think we may have a Butch Jones situation on our hands. Just all the #s and tag lines, uniforms ect. I’m a graduate of Tennessee and feel as if I’ve seen this same song and dance. However, I do give Coach Collins credit in his time as a great DC on other teams(Butch Jones was never a coordinator). I completely understand and agree with CPJ had become stubborn and lackluster, however, at Georgia Tech we will never out recruit the factories. We saw this under the Chan years when it’s the best we’ve ever recruited a program history . I feel at Georgia Tech we need to be innovative on offense ala the option. I felt that offense gave us an advantage when we played factories. We just needed a fresh coach other than CPJ. I was all for Monken to be our coach. This does not mean I do not want Collins to fail. That’s not what we need as a program. I just feel I’ve seen the same thing before.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

This does not mean I do not want Collins to fail.

Shouldn't you have typed "This does not mean that I do not want Collins to succeed" or "This does not mean that I want Collins to fail"? What you typed says that you DO want him to fail.

 

[smokey_wasp]

Sigh. "Not going after Coach Collins." Then next sentence is comparing him to Butch Jones after 4 games. Lol. "Legitimate" observation.

 

[GT_05]

Sigh. "Not going after Coach Collins." Then next sentence is comparing him to Butch Jones after 4 games. Lol. "Legitimate" observation.

Do you remember the sideline trash can? Butch had a lot of gimmicks and so does Collins. Fair analogy, imo.


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[Coloradojacket]

The problem as as always been at Tech is our curriculum limits recruiting. Now we have been able to get enough really good guys and develop some to field some pretty good teams in my 50 Tech years. But two things with that. We can get some pretty good 1st teams. But depth beyond that has always been the issue. If we have years with injuries, like 2015 and this year the depth issue becomes reality. As was stated earlier we will never field a team with the kind of talent that UGA, Bama, Auburn etc gets. We have to have schemes that work and better coaching. Dodd outcoached other teams. Friedgen out schemed teams just like CPJ. And on D Tenutta had a scheme that kept us in games during the Pro style Gailey years.

 

[Vespidae]

I also attend UT games (where I was in grad school) and Auburn (where I teach).

I too see similarities between Collins and Butch. Butch lost the fan base with his sayings, like “Champions of Life”, “leadership reps”, and “brick by brick”, etc. He was upbeat, positive, and told every kid ... “If you come to Tennessee, you’ll play.” He lost the locker room and self destructed.

Pruitt has his own issues, but we’re members of the same golf club and he has shared his thinking based on his experience at Alabama, Georgia, and FSU.

First, you need athletes who can play at an elite level. Pruitt noted that he knew the names of every kid recruited by any SEC school and recognized only a handful at UT. The talent level was woefully bad.

Second, was conditioning. Butch did not stress S&C and it shows. Pruitt said the old are simply not up to playing a full game because they are not SEC level athletes.

Third, was fundamentals. No one worked with the kids and showed them the what, how and why required. Combine that with a crappy attitude, and it’s hot mess.

As to Collins ... 4 games in, he’s losing me. Stop the dancing. Tell us the offense we’re going to run and run it. Recruit the athletes to play it. Develop them.

I’m more interested in achieving milestones than buzzwords.

 

[GT_05]

I also attend UT games (where I was in grad school) and Auburn (where I teach).

I too see similarities between Collins and Butch. Butch lost the fan base with his sayings, like “Champions of Life”, “leadership reps”, and “brick by brick”, etc. He was upbeat, positive, and told every kid ... “If you come to Tennessee, you’ll play.” He lost the locker room and self destructed.

Pruitt has his own issues, but we’re members of the same golf club and he has shared his thinking based on his experience at Alabama, Georgia, and FSU.

First, you need athletes who can play at an elite level. Pruitt noted that he knew the names of every kid recruited by any SEC school and recognized only a handful at UT. The talent level was woefully bad.

Second, was conditioning. Butch did not stress S&C and it shows. Pruitt said the old are simply not up to playing a full game because they are not SEC level athletes.

Third, was fundamentals. No one worked with the kids and showed them the what, how and why required. Combine that with a crappy attitude, and it’s hot mess.

As to Collins ... 4 games in, he’s losing me. Stop the dancing. Tell us the offense we’re going to run and run it. Recruit the athletes to play it. Develop them.

I’m more interested in achieving milestones than buzzwords.

...and pick a QB!!!


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[smokey_wasp]

I also attend UT games (where I was in grad school) and Auburn (where I teach).

I too see similarities between Collins and Butch. Butch lost the fan base with his sayings, like “Champions of Life”, “leadership reps”, and “brick by brick”, etc. He was upbeat, positive, and told every kid ... “If you come to Tennessee, you’ll play.” He lost the locker room and self destructed.

Pruitt has his own issues, but we’re members of the same golf club and he has shared his thinking based on his experience at Alabama, Georgia, and FSU.

First, you need athletes who can play at an elite level. Pruitt noted that he knew the names of every kid recruited by any SEC school and recognized only a handful at UT. The talent level was woefully bad.

Second, was conditioning. Butch did not stress S&C and it shows. Pruitt said the old are simply not up to playing a full game because they are not SEC level athletes.

Third, was fundamentals. No one worked with the kids and showed them the what, how and why required. Combine that with a crappy attitude, and it’s hot mess.

As to Collins ... 4 games in, he’s losing me. Stop the dancing. Tell us the offense we’re going to run and run it. Recruit the athletes to play it. Develop them.

I’m more interested in achieving milestones than buzzwords.

The slogans are literally the only similarity you provide here. All the other stuff about Butch you mention is polar opposite from CGC. He is all about recruiting, development, strength and conditioning, and fundamentals (noticed our tackling improvement?). His attitude is far from crappy and the players are with him 1000 percent. Only so much he can do year 1.

 

[gtrower]

I don’t think having CGC as HC and having an innovative offense are mutually exclusive. And Patenaude hasn’t been dealt the best of hands. But a good OC would be able to do more with what we have than what he’s given us thus far. And the 5 consecutive plays out of shotgun in short yardage downs against Clemson when the game was still reasonable will stick in my head for a looong time.

Collins has consistently recruited well and produced good defenses at his stops along the way. And I could see him maybe sticking with Tech over more lucrative offers down the road. (Maybe, he is a salesman). I think that’s a valuable tool for us.

But we need something creative on offense.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

The slogans are literally the only similarity you provide here. All the other stuff about Butch you mention is polar opposite from CGC. He is all about recruiting, development, strength and conditioning, and fundamentals (noticed our tackling improvement?). His attitude is far from crappy and the players are with him 1000 percent. Only so much he can do year 1.

Yeah...he forgot to mention the embarrassing losses...

 

[Coloradojacket]

Also to add, someone made the comment that Gailey was a good recruiter. Well the 2007 class was very good. However on average during his tenure his classes were mostly ranked in the mid 50's. Cpj in fact ranked mostly in the mid 40s. If you don't believe me go to Rivals and look at the class rankings for Tech. And what this tells me is what I have been saying. Offense does not affect recruiting. Maybe the types of offensive players, primarily QBs and O line, but that is about it.

 

[Vespidae]

The slogans are literally the only similarity you provide here. All the other stuff about Butch you mention is polar opposite from CGC. He is all about recruiting, development, strength and conditioning, and fundamentals (noticed our tackling improvement?). His attitude is far from crappy and the players are with him 1000 percent. Only so much he can do year 1.

Talk to Butch. He was all about recruiting too. And his staff? Best in D1. Game day coaching? F minus.

My point is he sounds and feels like Butch 2.0. And I hope that’s not the case.

 

[slugboy]

Also to add, someone made the comment that Gailey was a good recruiter. Well the 2007 class was very good. However on average during his tenure his classes were mostly ranked in the mid 50's. Cpj in fact ranked mostly in the mid 40s. If you don't believe me go to Rivals and look at the class rankings for Tech. And what this tells me is what I have been saying. Offense does not affect recruiting. Maybe the types of offensive players, primarily QBs and O line, but that is about it.

There have been complaints about “on the job learning” with Collins. It was truer with Gailey. He either didn’t put appropriate effort into recruiting or didn’t understand it until the latter half of his coaching tenure, and a fair section of that was affected by NCAA recruiting penalties (flunkgate).

Short version: Gailey’s recruiting rankings are poorer than they should have been. O’Leary’s were better and probably a better yardstick, even with APR factored in


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[Animal02]

I don’t think having CGC as HC and having an innovative offense are mutually exclusive. And Patenaude hasn’t been dealt the best of hands. But a good OC would be able to do more with what we have than what he’s given us thus far. And the 5 consecutive plays out of shotgun in short yardage downs against Clemson when the game was still reasonable will stick in my head for a looong time.

Collins has consistently recruited well and produced good defenses at his stops along the way. And I could see him maybe sticking with Tech over more lucrative offers down the road. (Maybe, he is a salesman). I think that’s a valuable tool for us.

But we need something creative on offense.

And recruiting means nothing if you cannot coach. You could not run a car dealership with just a bunch of salesmen hanging at the front door......you need the mechanic and accountants etc. Being a head coach is no different.
If it was solely about recruiting ...FSU would be a top 15 every year.

 

[iceeater1969]

Talk to Butch. He was all about recruiting too. And his staff? Best in D1. Game day coaching? F minus.

My point is he sounds and feels like Butch 2.0. And I hope that’s not the case.

2017 coaching salaries
GA TECH 14M
U T 21M

Money talks

 

[Ibeeballin]

Legitimate question, how many of you guys definitely know what offense the other team is running? Like do you know what offense Lincoln Riley running? Mike Lochslee? Mack Brown?

 

[Vespidae]

2017 coaching salaries
GA TECH 14M
U T 21M

Money talks

Not sure of your point. Butch was a MAC coach and UTs seventh pick. Six other D1 coaches said no.

Still, the money is insane. I don’t see Tech playing there. In fact, most of D1 won’t survive.

 

[stech81]

Legitimate question, how many of you guys definitely know what offense the other team is running? Like do you know what offense Lincoln Riley running? Mike Lochslee? Mack Brown?

I don't because I only watch Tech.

 

[iceeater1969]

Not sure of your point. Butch was a MAC coach and UTs seventh pick. Six other D1 coaches said no.

Still, the money is insane. I don’t see Tech playing there. In fact, most of D1 won’t survive.

Bingo.
We owe 200,000,000 and make 12,000,000 interest only debt payment.

 

[stech81]

Also to add, someone made the comment that Gailey was a good recruiter. Well the 2007 class was very good. However on average during his tenure his classes were mostly ranked in the mid 50's. Cpj in fact ranked mostly in the mid 40s. If you don't believe me go to Rivals and look at the class rankings for Tech. And what this tells me is what I have been saying. Offense does not affect recruiting. Maybe the types of offensive players, primarily QBs and O line, but that is about it.

Gailey's offense was boring , defense helped him. Still thinking what to call our offense now.