Las Vegas Mass Casualty Attack

[Deleted member 2897]

What Democratic lawmaker said that?

That's not what I said.

 

[A Love Supreme]

That's not what I said.

So then what's your point?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

So then what's your point?

I said there are nuts on both sides. Pointing out someone who says something stupid is not a reflection on an entire political party.

Did you watch the CNN Town Hall last night? People yelled at Dana Loesch that she was a murder and to 'burn her', just as a start. A crowd of people literally rushed her as she was leaving and had to be restrained by security. Does that mean that's an official position of the Democrats as a party? Of course not. There are crazy people everywhere.

Now what I will say is that the media absolutely can be stereoptyped like this, because they are just right out in the open pushing political propaganda.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Here is how it is supposed to work:
http://www.thestate.com/news/local/crime/article201321924.html

Guy makes specific threats of terrorism. You arrest the guy. You don't ignore it. You don't go about your day. Next this should be added into the background check system to make sure he can never own a gun for the rest of his life. This is what normal people and yes the NRA want. Disarm people who should not have guns.

If law enforcement does their job, we are all safer.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Meh, Russians are helping plan protests. Russian bots are retweeting these things. These theories are as crazy as all the kids yelling Shame! at Trump and demanding 80% of guns be banned and confiscated. They’re going to learn the hard way how the Constitution works.

Meanwhile, the school district down there said they had no right to expel him from the entire district as he had a right to school. THAT and law enforcement and the FBI are the problem. And broken families.

Federal law mandates government schools provide education to school age kids. It takes quite a lot to get them “kicked out of school”. And even then their school district has to provide off campus schooling at students Home etc.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I think you can tackle both at the same time. This isn't a city or a state issue. Its a gun issue.

No it’s a murder issue. You have change sen not to discuss 2A except to promote dismantling it.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Federal law mandates government schools provide education to school age kids. It takes quite a lot to get them “kicked out of school”. And even then their school district has to provide off campus schooling at students Home etc.

That was exactly what Broward County Schools said - it is dictated down on them and regardless of threat, attitude, discipline problems they cannot expel any kid from their schools. They don't offer a home option. To me that's just another example of law enforcement and our government failing us. They let an out of control kid who was threatening to shoot up a school keep going to school (he had been expelled more than once IIRC correctly, but it was just from a particular school and they'd assign him to another).

 

[MWBATL]

Now what I will say is that the media absolutely can be stereoptyped like this, because they are just right out in the open pushing political propaganda.

This +1,000,000
CNN has lost all credibility with me some time ago. This is merely another example of an idealogical politically motivated ad campaign run by the CNN folks. Yuck!

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

I’m not anti-gun, i own guns and enjoy shooting them, but i think some common sense legislation would help make it harder for insane people and criminals to get guns. Even if better background checks don’t completely solve the problem, what do they hurt? Also, i believe that it’s a fact that kids have escaped at Sandy Hook and Parkland while the shooters reloaded, every second counts in those situations so high capacity mags DO make a difference. Making schools safer with better security and armed guards and teachers won’t solve anything imo, all a shooter would have to do is wait down the road and ambush schoolbus’s full of kids as they leave the property. I hate being scared for my kids everyday while they are at school, i hope these attacks can be addressed somehow and greatly reduced. I get that cars, hammers and mcdonalds kills people too, but school and church are places that one shouldn’t have to worry about dying violently.

Background checks done wrong can and have hurt people. Through unnecessary and onerous “waiting periods” when instant background checks could have been instituted instead.

As for mag capacity. I’m no Navy Seal...but I can reload a Glock or AR mag in a fraction of a second. Mag capacity restrictions won’t help. They will simply cause law abiding citizens to carry more mags on their persons than they would otherwise have to in order to carry the same amount of ammo. So it will only encumber the law abiding.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Background checks done wrong can and have hurt people. Through unnecessary and onerous “waiting periods” when instant background checks could have been instituted instead.

As for mag capacity. I’m no Navy Seal...but I can reload a Glock or AR mag in a fraction of a second. Mag capacity restrictions won’t help. They will simply cause law abiding citizens to carry more mags on their persons than they would otherwise have to in order to carry the same amount of ammo. So it will only encumber the law abiding.

This to me is one of those times where I hope we can have some compromise. In Florida, the guy should have never had a gun had law enforcement done their job. In the Charleston shooting, he had actually been pursued and arrested by law enforcement, but the background check system didn't work fast enough. After 3 days, the dealer sold him the gun. I'd rather err on the side of safety. I realize there are corner cases of people under threat of domestic abuse from ex-husbands/boyfriends who have restraining orders and what not that can suffer from this. I'd recommend to them if they feel that much in danger to have a friend let them borrow a gun or something like that. I don't know what the right answer is - California keeps extending their period longer and longer to see what they can get away with. I know they'd eventually like a 10 year waiting period, LOL. But maybe 7 days. Ideally, every state is required by law to enter information into NICBCS and that the search can be instantaneous.

 

[WreckinGT]

Google doesn’t hide things. You are a silly man.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-20180215-story,amp.html

“I have been told by a couple of sources that the SRO was either called off campus responding to something happening or it could have been his day off,” she said.

It can’t be any more clear than that.

Also, noticed that 4 years ago the voters approved upgrades to school security, including things that would have helped prevent this shooting, but the school district has yet to do anything about it. Sad.

That was a statement from an executive of a principals association who heard something from someone. You are completely glossing over the next paragraph in the same article that completely contradicts that:

Neither BSO nor school district officials responded to requests for comment Thursday about where the officer was at the time. On Friday, Broward Schools Superintendent Robert Runcie said he was told by BSO officials that an officer was at the school but on a different part of campus.

You are now calling the Broward Schools superintendent and the Sheriff liars and trusting someone who heard something from some source that there was no attempt to name.

 

[WreckinGT]

And if there were no guns, it would be a knife issue. And if there were no knives, it would be an (bow and) arrow issue. And if there were no arrows, it would be a club issue...and so on, and so on.

It's not a gun issue, it's a people issue. As I see it, the problem is not the tool of choice, but the choice of the person using the tool. Mass shootings is a very different issue than general gun violence. The approaches to solving them will be unrelated.

Banning semi-automatic weapons will not solve this issue. Single shot, reloading (i.e. revolver or pump action or bolt action) are just as deadly to those who get shot as a semi-automatic weapon. They're probably more dangerous because there's better aim and less rapid fire.

Banning weapons from specific locations will not solve this issue. Just like a lock is there to keep an honest person out, location bans are their to keep law-abiding people from carrying a weapon into those areas. A criminal or someone with ill-intent is not going to heed the warning that weapons are not allowed in a facility.

There are solutions. I don't necessarily know what those solutions are, but I would start with enforcing the current laws. Any new laws will be just as effective as the current laws if they're not enforced or the consequences enforced.

How many people would have died if the killer had used a knife?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

That was a statement from an executive of a principals association who heard something from someone. You are completely glossing over the next paragraph in the same article that completely contradicts that:

You are now calling the Broward Schools superintendent and the Sheriff liars and trusting someone who heard something from some source that there was no attempt to name.

Stop lying.

Think about it. The day of and the day after the shooting, people reported that the officer did not come into contact with the shooting. Why they said that, I don't know. Could be the officer was embarrassed he was not there. There was an off-duty officer there for a different reason (unarmed) who ran around and tried to help the victims, and he never saw the shooter I believe. could be confusion with his story, I don't know. But FIVE DAYS later is the official statement from this lady.

I'm not calling anybody a liar, I'm saying that the information they had at the time was incorrect. This lady was pretty definitive in her statement. What someone had said 5 days earlier as you quoted is exactly the point I was trying to make. That information has since been corrected.

I do find it odd that there has not been an official statement from the officer or law enforcement. I can only trust that to mean they are trying to hide or embarrassed or avoid lawsuits.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

How many people would have died if the killer had used a knife?

I would guess zero if he had come armed with boiled eggs. Possibly one if he had been able to choke one of the kids with one.

The most successful knife attack I've ever read about killed 33 people and injured 143. And no, that is not a typo.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

How many people would have died if the killer had used a knife?

What do Parkland, Washington Navy Yard, Garland Texas, Fort Hood, Charleston, Boston, Orlando Night Club, San Bernadino and others have in common? Yes, they were all mass shootings...what else do they have in common? The shooter should have not had a gun at any of those but law enforcement didn't do their job.

 

[B Lifsey]

How many people would have died if the killer had used a knife?

So, you are OK if people die from knife attacks?

 

[B Lifsey]

Even if better background checks don’t completely solve the problem, what do they hurt?

Same hold true for immigrants and voter registration?

 

[UgaBlows]

Same hold true for immigrants and voter registration?

Absolutely

 

[WreckinGT]

So, you are OK if people die from knife attacks?

Nope. But I'm more ok with one person at most dying than 17.

 

[UgaBlows]

[QUOTE="Whiskey_Clear, post: 402691, member: 735]
As for mag capacity. I’m no Navy Seal...but I can reload a Glock or AR mag in a fraction of a second. Mag capacity restrictions won’t help. They will simply cause law abiding citizens to carry more mags on their persons than they would otherwise have to in order to carry the same amount of ammo. So it will only encumber the law abiding.[/QUOTE]

I can too, but the point is that potentially the shooter may have to fumble in his pockets for the next clip or he’s distracted by his next target or someone shooting back or he’s a clutz and drops it etc., any break in the shooting can save lives.