Las Vegas Mass Casualty Attack

[Deleted member 2897]

I don't think anyone is advocating murder, I just don't think anyone on the guns side of the argument cares at all how many people die as long as it isn't their loved ones. Therefore they will never make any attempt to improve anything when it is obvious that we have a serious problem.

I enjoy hearing your side, but that’s a pretty unfair perspective. All we are saying is that most people are arguing for POLITICAL solutions which don’t do anything to stop shootings.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Honest question, are you ok with your taxes going up significantly if we are to implement the security measures that you mentioned above at all schools? That doesn't mean that I am against your ideas I just want to know what your reaction is going to be when the bill comes in. Also, one armed guard at all schools is going to do nothing. You will need several. Parkland had an armed guard who was working at the time. He never even encountered the shooter.

We already have them. It actually doesn’t cost that much. Deputize a principal or asst principal if you have no money. Zero cost there.

#1 item I said was for law enforcement to do their job. A school is not a college campus. If that officer couldn’t find the shooter, fire him and replace him with a competent officer. If for some reason a school is a wide open and multi-building campus, then secure a perimeter and hire 2 officers if the coverage area dictates it.

Imagine being in a school and not being able to hear what building gunfire is coming from. Not possible. Imagine being in that building and not being able to tell if it’s on your floor. Not possible.

RDIT: Just read a newspaper article that said the officer wasn’t on school grounds at the time (Sun Sentinel). That explains it.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I don't think anyone is advocating murder, I just don't think anyone on the guns side of the argument cares at all how many people die as long as it isn't their loved ones. Therefore they will never make any attempt to improve anything when it is obvious that we have a serious problem.

That's a very inflammatory statement that reflects youthful myopic idealism, trolling or ignorance. Such a broad-sweeping statement does nothing except shut down discourse on the subject.

I'd like to see a couple of things happen before we go making politically-charged laws: 1) enforce the laws that are already on the books, and 2) stop the anti-gun/pro-gun radicalized argument so that true solutions can be reached. The ultimate question to answer is...is there anything that can be done to quell crowd gun violence? In my opinion, making AR-15's and such weapons illegal will not change anything. There needs to be solutions that don't involve the guns because unless there is an amendment to the US Constitution passed and ratified changing the 2nd Amendment, that's not going to happen.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Ok then. What should we do to curtail this massive problem without any forms of gun control?

Maybe we should take a page out of Rudy Guiliani’s playbook & enforce the laws nationwide? Throw the criminals in jail, blunt the rise in crime by nipping it in the bud early when the offenders are committing misdemeanor offenses instead of waiting until they’re raging felons and get the police active in our communities engaging the populace in constructive manners. This dropped crime precipitously in NYC, a very diverse city, including the types of violent crimes everyone’s agitated over here.

Stop making excuses for why the unsuccessful are not successful. My father wouldn’t tolerate me using any perceived disadvantages as a crutch. Teach youngsters to work hard, to persevere thru difficult times, earn their way forward instead of reducing standards, enabling low performers & trying to mandate outcomes.

We need a nationwide effort to re-educate ourselves in right from wrong. You watch the politicians, media & Hollywood types and I’m not sure how today’s youth learns standards of conduct in how to be a good citizen. The hate is so visceral, the sides often care less about what’s right than being right.

 

[WreckinGT]

That's a very inflammatory statement that reflects youthful myopic idealism, trolling or ignorance. Such a broad-sweeping statement does nothing except shut down discourse on the subject.

I'd like to see a couple of things happen before we go making politically-charged laws: 1) enforce the laws that are already on the books, and 2) stop the anti-gun/pro-gun radicalized argument so that true solutions can be reached. The ultimate question to answer is...is there anything that can be done to quell crowd gun violence? In my opinion, making AR-15's and such weapons illegal will not change anything. There needs to be solutions that don't involve the guns because unless there is an amendment to the US Constitution passed and ratified changing the 2nd Amendment, that's not going to happen.

Discourse on the subject ended when Sandy Hook was deemed bearable. If kids dying doesn’t do anything then the conversation is pretty much over. More mass school shootings will happen, and we will all pray and hope things improve knowing that they won’t. Anyways, I will give you the opportunity also to propose your changes that don’t involve gun control but will help with our problem with mass shootings and school shootings. I am open to anything that might help.

 

[awbuzz]

...I just don't think anyone on the guns side of the argument cares at all how many people die as long as it isn't their loved ones...

I truly hope that you are just trolling with that comment.

That's flat out ridiculous.

 

[WreckinGT]

I truly hope that you are just trolling with that comment.

That's flat out ridiculous.

Im not. Unless you can show some evidence that something has been done in the last few years in response to all of these mass shootings that continue to occur, I am going to assume those in power don’t care. Their prayers and thoughts mean jack squat. They are doing nothing to improve things.

 

[awbuzz]

Im not. Unless you can show some evidence that something has been done in the last few years in response to all of these mass shootings that continue to occur, I am going to assume those in power don’t care. Their prayers and thoughts mean jack squat. They are doing nothing to improve things.

From your earlier your earlier statement "I just don't think anyone on the guns side of the argument cares at all how many people die as long as it isn't their loved ones. "

I did not realize that Barack Obama and all the Democrats in the House and Senate when they had majority in both sides of Congress were on the gun side of the argument.

Surely you are trolling with that comment. Take a step back and see if you can understand why I think that is the case.


I do agree that the #blahblahblah doesn't do squat either.
Faith without action is for show. (Action can be as simple as how we treat others.)

 

[WreckinGT]

I enjoy hearing your side, but that’s a pretty unfair perspective. All we are saying is that most people are arguing for POLITICAL solutions which don’t do anything to stop shootings.

Your opinion is that nothing can stop these shootings and therefore we shouldn’t even try. I would say that is a very defeatist attitude but I’m not sure it is even genuine. Imagine if after 911 we all said, well nothing can be done, no response needed. No new laws needed.

 

[WreckinGT]

From your earlier your earlier statement "I just don't think anyone on the guns side of the argument cares at all how many people die as long as it isn't their loved ones. "

I did not realize that Barack Obama and all the Democrats in the House and Senate when they had majority in both sides of Congress were on the gun side of the argument.

Surely you are trolling with that comment. Take a step back and see if you can understand why I think that is the case.

I am perfectly fine with criticizing Obama and the democrats for not passing legislation. Nobody is getting a pass here. There are democrats who accept money from the NRA and have high ratings with them. They should be voted out of office immediately.

 

[awbuzz]

I am perfectly fine with criticizing Obama and the democrats for not passing legislation. Nobody is getting a pass here. There are democrats who accept money from the NRA and have high ratings with them. They should be voted out of office immediately.

Most politicians are in it for $s, and worry about reelection more than standing on principles. Say what it takes to get elected, them Garner power. I am talking about mostly about National politicians.

 

[WreckinGT]

We already have them. It actually doesn’t cost that much. Deputize a principal or asst principal if you have no money. Zero cost there.

#1 item I said was for law enforcement to do their job. A school is not a college campus. If that officer couldn’t find the shooter, fire him and replace him with a competent officer. If for some reason a school is a wide open and multi-building campus, then secure a perimeter and hire 2 officers if the coverage area dictates it.

Imagine being in a school and not being able to hear what building gunfire is coming from. Not possible. Imagine being in that building and not being able to tell if it’s on your floor. Not possible.

RDIT: Just read a newspaper article that said the officer wasn’t on school grounds at the time (Sun Sentinel). That explains it.

There are conflicting reports on that.

Neither BSO nor school district officials responded to requests for comment Thursday about where the officer was at the time. On Friday, Broward Schools Superintendent Robert Runcie said he was told by BSO officials that an officer was at the school but on a different part of campus.

Also, going directly towards gun fire when fire alarms are going off and hundreds of people are screaming may not be as easy as you think.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Im not. Unless you can show some evidence that something has been done in the last few years in response to all of these mass shootings that continue to occur, I am going to assume those in power don’t care. Their prayers and thoughts mean jack squat. They are doing nothing to improve things.

I can tell you what has been done, but it’s nearly all bad. We’ve relaxed our laws, fearful of racial discrimination primarily. We’ve let violent criminals out of jail under the auspices of unfair levels of punishment for their crimes or disproportionate treatment of different demographics. At the same time, we’ve got prominent elected officials flaunting disobedience of our laws by ignoring federal immigration requirements & proclaiming the ability to establish sanctuary cities for law breakers including illegal alien violent crime committing felons.

There’s overwhelming statistical evidence that nearly 75% of our nation’s homicides occur in areas representing just 5% of our cities area. It’s not hard to identify where the homicides will occur (poor & typically minority neighborhoods) and it’s not hard to identify who’s likely to commit the homicide (previous violent offenders).

Who are the mayors in our largest cities & what is their agenda? Who are the governors of the states containing our largest cities & what is their agenda? What political persuasion is the Chief of Police, head of the School Boards, etc in these cities with such a terrible track record? What Senators & Congressman are enabling these bastards for damaging our cities & country by continuing to fund them? Who are the people supporting these people & why do they think law abiding citizens are evil people for wanting to preserve their consitituonally guaranteed freedoms at the expense of allowing criminals to roam around unfettered ? Why do they seemingly not hate killing & seemingly prefer to allow their cities to decline, children to get slaughtered, etc instead of standing up like a man & telling it like it is/exhibiting some real American leadership?

I think we all know the answers to these questions. Some prefer to remain in power instead of being on the side of right. Sad.

 

[WreckinGT]

I can tell you what has been done, but it’s nearly all bad. We’ve relaxed our laws, fearful of racial discrimination primarily. We’ve let violent criminals out of jail under the auspices of unfair levels of punishment for their crimes or disproportionate treatment of different demographics. At the same time, we’ve got prominent elected officials flaunting disobedience of our laws by ignoring federal immigration requirements & proclaiming the ability to establish sanctuary cities for law breakers including illegal alien violent crime committing felons.

There’s overwhelming statistical evidence that nearly 75% of our nation’s homicides occur in areas representing just 5% of our cities area. It’s not hard to identify where the homicides will occur (poor & typically minority neighborhoods) and it’s not hard to identify who’s likely to commit the homicide (previous violent offenders).

Who are the mayors in our largest cities & what is their agenda? Who are the governors of the states containing our largest cities & what is their agenda? What political persuasion is the Chief of Police, head of the School Boards, etc in these cities with such a terrible track record? What Senators & Congressman are enabling these bastards for damaging our cities & country by continuing to fund them? Who are the people supporting these people & why do they think law abiding citizens are evil people for wanting to preserve their consitituonally guaranteed freedoms at the expense of allowing criminals to roam around unfettered ? Why do they seemingly not hate killing & seemingly prefer to allow their cities to decline, children to get slaughtered, etc instead of standing up like a man & telling it like it is/exhibiting some real American leadership?

I think we all know the answers to these questions. Some prefer to remain in power instead of being on the side of right. Sad.

While a lot of this is true at the city level, there is also overwhelming evidence at the state level that a higher rate of gun ownership correlates to a higher gun homicide rate. There is a higher gun homicide rate in Alabama than in NY. There is a higher gun homicide rate in Louisiana than in California.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Discourse on the subject ended when Sandy Hook was deemed bearable. If kids dying doesn’t do anything then the conversation is pretty much over. More mass school shootings will happen, and we will all pray and hope things improve knowing that they won’t. Anyways, I will give you the opportunity also to propose your changes that don’t involve gun control but will help with our problem with mass shootings and school shootings. I am open to anything that might help.

Actually, I'd like to hear what you're proposed solutions are. It sounds like you're in favor of significant gun control, but I'm not sure what you think is the solution. It would be helpful to understand where you're coming from.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Im not. Unless you can show some evidence that something has been done in the last few years in response to all of these mass shootings that continue to occur, I am going to assume those in power don’t care. Their prayers and thoughts mean jack squat. They are doing nothing to improve things.

Democrats owned the White House, House if Representatives, and filibuster proof Senate and did nothing.

Sandy Hook wasn’t “bearable”. Stop it. They just can’t think of what to do. I laid out a long list above, a lot of which can be done locally, and had been done locally.

The mental health/timeout pieces involve drifting over the 2st, 2nd, and 4th amendment in ways folks like the ACLU will sue all day over, but it’s worth a try. But nobody wants to do this stuff. Democrats only want to use it for political points and not real solutions. Republicans spend all their time explaining why the Democrats ideas won’t work. And here we are.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

While a lot of this is true at the city level, there is also overwhelming evidence at the state level that a higher rate of gun ownership correlates to a higher gun homicide rate. There is a higher gun homicide rate in Alabama than in NY. There is a higher gun homicide rate in Louisiana than in California.

The highest rates of shootings are where guns are banned.

In the last 30 years, gun ownership has ballooned, yet we’re at a record low for shootings.

Many countries in Europe have a higher Per Capita rate of mass shootings and school shootings than we do...with no or very little guns.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

There are conflicting reports on that.


Also, going directly towards gun fire when fire alarms are going off and hundreds of people are screaming may not be as easy as you think.

THATS WHAT COPS DO.

There is no such thing as conflicting reports. They know who they employ. They ask him where he was.

Fire him and get a real cop.

 

[BuzzStone]

If you arm teachers and staff and a shooting occurs how are the cops supposed to determine who the shooter is?

Looking for real answers here.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

If you arm teachers and staff and a shooting occurs how are the cops supposed to determine who the shooter is?

Looking for real answers here.

That's not what I and most people are advocating. We are talking about a single armed resource/police officer. Then the person is actually well trained and you don't have 20 people in a circular firing squad. Gun free zones have been disastrous soft targets over the last 15 years. All you have to do is put 1 single security guard in a reasonably sized school and the deterrence alone will help.

Rhetorical question - can you or anybody else on this board imagine shooting someone? 5 people? 20 people? It takes a certain kind of evil and delusion to do such a thing. You could surround me with handguns, AR-15s, grenades, flame throwers, napalm, MX missiles, and I wouldn't even remotely be tempted. The gun is just a tool - removing 1 tool means they will grab another. That much of Europe has a per capita higher mass shooting and school shooting rate than we do supports that. That cities like Chicago and DC that have bans have higher shooting rates supports that. We have to improve the security at schools, improve our ability to at least temporarily ban guns based on mental illness/interactions with police, and we have to stop the rotting at the core that develops kids like this in the first place - the destruction of the family and the destruction of our culture.