Has Georgia Tech Football entered the Bill Lewis Era part II?

[Animal02]

And he will still come back for year 3. It wont come to that though. We will win some. Dont understand the assumption that players are incapable of improving. They are already showing some signs

So we lose 38-27? A loss is a loss.

 

[Old South Stands]

I am really curious as to why we are not comparing Collins to Bobby Ross. Of course, there are differences, just as there are with Collins and Lewis...but

Lewis took over a team that was 8-5 and played in a bowl game the previous year and went 5-6

Ross took over a team that had gone 5-5-1 the previous year and went 2-9, winless in the ACC and winless against "Power 5" opponents. (He did beat The Citadel)

How is it that our football geniuses on this site already can see that this is he reincarnation of Bill Lewis and not the reincarnation of Bobby Ross? I clearly need to learn more to be able to see the difference, so educate me....or is everything based on one poor game against The Citadel?

Bobby Ross turned Maryland --- MARYLAND --- into ACC champs and was voted coach of the year in the ACC before he came to the Flats. He had a good track record wherever he went, and even made it to the Super Bowl after leaving Tech. He left Maryland in the wake of the Len Bias tragedy and some other problems plaguing Maryland athletics, saying that Tech had a history of winning championships and thought he could win one there as well. Before coming to Maryland, he also had head coaching experience at them Citadel. Coach Collins doesn't have nearly as much head coaching experience as Coach Ross did when he came to Tech. Coach Ross and Coach Friedgen would be two people I'd be quick to become acquainted with personally if I were in Coach Collins's shoes! Both love Tech, especially Coach F., and would probably be happy to offer him friendly ongoing advice.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Nah, look at the poll results. It's a small contingent of extremely vocal grumps with various agendas, many of whom seem to congregate on GTSwarm who're losing their ish after half a season. Most of the fan base is reasonable and willing to give it some time.

Have you looked at Stingtalk lately? I do not believe the unrest is confined to GT Swarm nor do I think it is necessarily small, though definitely a minority to be sure. My purpose is only to point out that patience is in short supply in this age of 24/7 internet where every man can be a pundit for a few moments. Do not think for a minute that this or most other Power 5 fanbases would be willing to tolerate multiple years of poor results such as when Frank Beamer became coach or what Bill Curry endured (to a lesser extent to be sure than Coach Beamer). Zook, McElwain, and Champ all had winning records at Florida and were summarily kicked down the stairs due to fan unrest on Gator Bait and Gator Country. The howl of the mob can be hard to resist especially if the media is hostile to a coach as was the case for the unfortunate Zook and McElwain in particular.

 

[Animal02]

I am really curious about your and @Supersizethatorder-mutt 's opinion.

Do you believe that most of the people that are huge fans of CGC and his style are that way because they really do believe GT can compete for top 10 success by recruiting at a high level, OR do you believe they will be ha ppy with mediocre success (after a few painful years) as long as they don't have to see the TO anymore? I ask this realizing that except 2 years, that is about all we had was mediocre success with the TO, due to difficult recruiting. I think the hype buyers will ultimately be satisfied with mediocre seasons to save face.

I will tell you guys that my gut (my opinion only) is that the TO and CPJ's personality "embarrassed" many, and they would support just about anything that is in an opposite direction from his style.

I think a lot of those that have bought into the CGC hype are not old enough to have been there done that in both GT football and life in general. Tech needs to recruit D1 caliber talent that meets the institutions acceptance standard AND want to major in a degree that Tech offers AND are willing to put up with the academic rigors of Tech. Those candidates are few and far between and for the most part will NOT be found in the 404.
It is comical how posters prop up players that love CGC......yet hand wave away the ones that supported CPJ.

 

[TampaGT]

I am really curious as to why we are not comparing Collins to Bobby Ross. Of course, there are differences, just as there are with Collins and Lewis...but

Lewis took over a team that was 8-5 and played in a bowl game the previous year and went 5-6

Ross took over a team that had gone 5-5-1 the previous year and went 2-9, winless in the ACC and winless against "Power 5" opponents. (He did beat The Citadel)

How is it that our football geniuses on this site already can see that this is he reincarnation of Bill Lewis and not the reincarnation of Bobby Ross? I clearly need to learn more to be able to see the difference, so educate me....or is everything based on one poor game against The Citadel?

Not saying he is or isn’t BL, but compare each of their FBS HC before GT.
BR was 39-19-1 in fives seasons at Maryland and finished first in conference 3x. BL 13-21-1 at Wyoming and 21-12-1 at ECU of which he had one season that was 11-1. So outside of that one season BL was 23-32. GC was 15 -10 in his two seasons. The HC before GC had back to back 10 win seasons and is 6-0 at Baylor. The current coach at Temple is 5-1, I know their there is a lot that can happen between now and the end of the season and that Temple could collapse, but it is looking like that the two GC years at Temple was their two worst years in a five year span.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

South Carolina has had a Top 20 ranked recruiting class in 4 of the last 5 years. They have regularly snagged 4 star defensive line targets from GA that we were after heavily like Kingsley Enagbare and MJ Webb. They are not in UGAg's talent class, but they are considerably above ours, especially in key areas that are hurting us now, like DL. I believe CGC is capable of bringing in their level of talent, if not UGAg's. When he does, then we can assess performance against UGAg.

I think it is very possible that Coach Collins can bring in multiple top 20 or so recruiting classes as South Carolina has done under Champ. Whether or not these classes will contain the linemen on both sides of the ball that we so desperately need is another question. FSU was characterized by Dabo as having the most talent of any team Clemson faces. Alas, as has been the case for quite some time, the Criminoles manage, in typical FSU style, to waste more talent than just about anyone else. I pray that Coach Collins will not only get the talent in but be able to develop them and show improvement in game day coaching.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

I think a lot of those that have bought into the CGC hype are not old enough to have been there done that in both GT football and life in general. Tech needs to recruit D1 caliber talent that meets the institutions acceptance standard AND want to major in a degree that Tech offers AND are willing to put up with the academic rigors of Tech. Those candidates are few and far between and for the most part will NOT be found in the 404.
It is comical how posters prop up players that love CGC......yet hand wave away the ones that supported CPJ.

That may be true, but if it is true then Coach Collins needs to quickly recognize the need to recruit nationally especially for linemen. I differ with you on the 404 thing. I think he can find skill position players for the most part and good ones at that but the challenge will be linemen and there you are absolutely correct.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

I think a lot of those that have bought into the CGC hype are not old enough to have been there done that in both GT football and life in general. Tech needs to recruit D1 caliber talent that meets the institutions acceptance standard AND want to major in a degree that Tech offers AND are willing to put up with the academic rigors of Tech. Those candidates are few and far between and for the most part will NOT be found in the 404.
It is comical how posters prop up players that love CGC......yet hand wave away the ones that supported CPJ.

I agree with all of this - I guess it is our lack of $$, but it would seem to me that players like D. Morgan, who was found in PA, are out there, but we have to have a national/global strategy to find them. With that said, I don't understand why so many, young or not, believe that getting into the top 25-30, without superior coaching, will allow us to be competitive with UGAG or Clem's Son or Notre Dame or other top factories. It is almost like they are saying as long as we beat Duke, UVA, etc., we can all be happy, as long as we are not running the 3O.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

We get 1.5x revenue from fans than we get from TV. Roughly $53M fan based revenue (tickets & donations, etc) to $37M from TV & ACC. Revenue from TV is big of course, but fans make the difference.

I would never have guessed that the revenues from the fans would be so much greater than from TV. Sobering thought that. Based on what I saw in Durham, it is a wonder than Duke breaks even.

 

[Animal02]

That may be true, but if it is true then Coach Collins needs to quickly recognize the need to recruit nationally especially for linemen. I differ with you on the 404 thing. I think he can find skill position players for the most part and good ones as that but the challenge will be linemen and there you are absolutely correct.

Collins is wrong and CPJ was wrong when he first came to Tech.

 

[Animal02]

I think it is very possible that Coach Collins can bring in multiple top 20 or so recruiting classes as South Carolina has done under Champ. Whether or not these classes will contain the linemen on both sides of the ball that we so desperately need is another question. FSU was characterized by Dabo as having the most talent of any team Clemson faces. Alas, as has been the case for quite some time, the Criminoles manage, in typical FSU style, to waste more talent than just about anyone else. I pray that Coach Collins will not only get the talent in but be able to develop them and show improvement in game day coaching.

Take a look at the top 30 recruiting schools. What schools can Tech CONSISTENTLY beat out with the limited academic offering and academic rigors?

 

[JorgeJonas]

I am not sure any decent coach would have come here without a long term deal....most intelligent coaches understood the transition was going to be ugly.

You maybe could have gotten, oh, I dunno...Les Miles or Bobby Petrino for shorter term deals....nobody with any creds, though

It’s not entirely obvious a decent one came with a seven year contract.

 

[LibertyTurns]

I would never have guessed that the revenues from the fans would be so much greater than from TV. Sobering though that. Based on what I saw in Durham, it is a wonder than Duke breaks even.

Duke makes $30M+/yr off basketball. It wouldn’t surprise me if there was another $15-20M that’s not public knowledge. That’s was our margin on football until we ushered in the new staff.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Take a look at the top 30 recruiting schools. What schools can Tech CONSISTENTLY beat out with the limited academic offering and academic rigors?

Probably none of them but we are located right smack dab in the middle of a top 5 or so recruiting hotbed so there should be some players with decent academic credentials that would prefer to stay near home. I don't know but we will soon find out.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

Did TStan even interview anyone else (except Whisenhunt)? It appeared to me that Collins sought out the job and sold TStan on the vision. Did TStan even interview other candidates and listen to their visions? Maybe he did - I hope so.

 

[Animal02]

I am not sure any decent coach would have come here without a long term deal....most intelligent coaches understood the transition was going to be ugly.

You maybe could have gotten, oh, I dunno...Les Miles or Bobby Petrino for shorter term deals....nobody with any creds, though

There were several....but TStan was committed to a complete demolition. There are lots of ways to write a contract.....incentives for performance milestones.....# of wins etc. TStan gave away the farm to a rookie with a sales pitch.

 

[AlabamaBuzz]

Probably none of them but we are located right smack dab in the middle of a top 5 or so recruiting hotbed so there should be some players with decent academic credentials that would prefer to stay near home. I don't know but we will soon find out.

I think you guys are both right. There are some, especially D-back, WR's, RB's, etc., that we can get and keep from the 404, but when it comes to DL's (especially DT's) and big, fast LB's, I am not sure there are enough to go around in the 404 or even nationwide, and when you narrow it down to those who want to "play school" at GT, it gets even smaller.

 

[Animal02]

Probably none of them but we are located right smack dab in the middle of a top 5 or so recruiting hotbed so there should be some players with decent academic credentials that would prefer to stay near home. I don't know but we will soon find out.

Sure there are some.....but we need to cast a very wide net. It will never happen with blinders of thinking we can out recruit the factories.

 

[JorgeJonas]

I am really curious about your and @Supersizethatorder-mutt 's opinion.

Do you believe that most of the people that are huge fans of CGC and his style are that way because they really do believe GT can compete for top 10 success by recruiting at a high level, OR do you believe they will be happy with mediocre success (after a few painful years) as long as they don't have to see the TO anymore? I ask this realizing that except 2 years, that is about all we had was mediocre success with the TO, due to difficult recruiting.

I will tell you guys that my gut (my opinion only) is that the TO and CPJ's personality "embarrassed" many, and they would support just about anything that is in an opposite direction from his style.

There’s a lot here to unpack, but let’s just start by saying that no one’s rooting against Collins. People are simply guessing what’s coming in the future. I was not optimistic when he was hired, and the results have done little to change my mind. I genuinely hope I’m wrong.

The folks who truly believe in Collins should expect that we will produce top 25 teams annually. Collins himself has set that expectation. Anything less than that is failure, and it raises questions about why we would endure a potential 1-11 season with a home loss to a 1-AA school to get back where we were, except without the two excellent and two other above average seasons we had in the past ten.

 

[Animal02]

There’s a lot here to unpack, but let’s just start by saying that no one’s rooting against Collins. People are simply guessing what’s coming in the future. I was not optimistic when he was hired, and the results have done little to change my mind. I genuinely hope I’m wrong.

Same here. I am not rooting against Collins either....but I am laughing a lot at those that bought the hype.