Hall retained. Borrell fired.

[GT33]

Pitchers are like the lottery, you hope you pick the right ones. You never know how they will develop or adapt to the next level, whether that’s high school, college, or the pros. Lots of can’t miss guys miss badly at the next level, and lots of mediocre guys make it. There ain’t a coach out there that gets it right all the time. JMO. GO JACKETS

I don't think anyone expects anyone to get it right all the time. We need to figure out how to go from 250th in pitching to 50-75th, you know somewhere around the bottom of where P5 should be. When you're always at the bottom, it stops being bad luck and starts being some element of everything else. What the actual cause is, well that's up for debate, but unless we're saying we're historically unlucky it has to be something we're doing. We're Engineers, we should be able to pick it apart and beat the average.

 

[slugboy]

How about under Howell and other pitching coaches selected by Hall?

Why do we expect a change?

The ACC only shares team stats back to 2015, where we show up as 10th out of 10 with an ERA of 7.09.

In 2018 and 2018, the ERA got up to “below average” at 4 1/2, but I saw a 9 in there. In 2020, our ACC-supplied ERA was 3.65, which was still below the league average

Maybe D1 baseball has older stats

 

[leatherneckjacket]

@leatherneckjacket I don’t disagree with what your postulating. What were the weaknesses of the previous 12 years of pitching coaches? Do you think they were all the same as Borrell or we’ve just not gotten the guy that’s strong in every area -pitch selection, pitching mechanics, recruitment, etc and we just need to get one of those guys everybody else has? Should be pretty easy. Go hire somebody that’s already got their pitchers performing at say #80 and with our recruiting advantages we ahould get performance around 50th which shoukd be good enough to win a crap ton of games with our hitting prowess.

I am not sure with regards to the previous pitching coaches. The had their individual strengths and weaknesses, but it is more than just them. I just do not think Hall is that great at evaluating or managing pitching talent. We have had some talented pitchers pass through here that previously covered his mismanagement of the staff. Unfortunately, we have not been able to overcome the poor coaching for the past decade plus.

 

[4shotB]

Unfortunately, we have not been able to overcome the poor coaching for the past decade plus.

Does this become a "do loop" or 'self fulfilling prophecy? Do quality HS pitchers look at the track record of developing talent (pitchers) and choose to go elsewhere? There are several programs that consisently go to Omaha. That, like our track record, is not the result of luck.

 

[GTRambler]

Here are the programs with the most Men's College World Series titles

Here's a look at the college baseball programs with multiple Men's College World Series titles.

www.ncaa.com

 

[Buzzbomb]

How about under Howell and other pitching coaches selected by Hall?

Why do we expect a change?

I was a Bobby Moranda guy. Too lazy to look up those stats, but I remember some fairly impressive numbers when he was at WF. Howell, not a big fan of.

 

[Killerbees]

My opinion only, the days of development is going away. Maybe not for all, but I would say the majority. You will see only high potential/developed recruits out of high school and year to year portal moves to fill gaps. Then coaches like Ramsey can get your hitting from good to great. We need to see the same from pitching. And I would say fielding, but I don’t think GT has a fielding coach or would be asking for his removal as well.

 

[FredJacket]

Coach Hall has probably thought about all of this & more 1000x more than any of us or all of us collectively. Sucks for him... he's actually on the hook (his legacy too) for what has to be done.

 

[wrmathis]

DBo didn’t work out obviously, I’m a believer that a pitching coach , or hitting for that matter ,can only do so much. This is not knocking our players, but I’m sure the plan was not to go out and get behind hitters and walk folks. Yes there are instances where a particular coach and player gel together and careers are turned around. This could be as simple as instilling belief into said player. Was Mazzone a great pitching coach, or was it 3 HOF that made him. I’m glad DBo is gone, but not sure a pitching savior is out there

For the bolded part, id say it was having 3 HOF. after he left the Braves, he went to Baltimore and lasted 2 years. after that, he hasn't really coached anywhere. I think he did do a good job with the throwing program the braves used/have used, but other than that, its having 3 HOF that made him look good.

 

[GTRambler]

Got to have the horses who can pitch well.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

Does this become a "do loop" or 'self fulfilling prophecy? Do quality HS pitchers look at the track record of developing talent (pitchers) and choose to go elsewhere? There are several programs that consisently go to Omaha. That, like our track record, is not the result of luck.

Again, I think you are conflating team performance and getting drafted.

I think getting drafted is more important to most players than how a particular team on their journey to the MLB performs.

We have consistently gotten lots of guys drafted and haven't performed well in post season (when we make it) but we continue to recruit well.

Yes I am cynical, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

 

[Buzzbomb]

Coach Hall has probably thought about all of this & more 1000x more than any of us or all of us collectively. Sucks for him... he's actually on the hook (his legacy too) for what has to be done.

True. Although, it’s tough to fire a guy you like & has a family to support. Loyalty.

 

[FredJacket]

Here are NCAA rankings in ERA, Scoring, and Fielding for the CWS teams over last 3 CWS.

NCAA Statistics

stats.ncaa.org

Ga Tech's numbers (ERA / Scoring / Fld)
2022 - 227 / 3 /159
2021 - 180 / 60 / 187
2019 - 95 / 16 / 97
Note: My opinion... 2019 team was CWS material. Heartbreaker in the regional. That was a great season despite that.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

Coach Hall has probably thought about all of this & more 1000x more than any of us or all of us collectively. Sucks for him... he's actually on the hook (his legacy too) for what has to be done.

Perhaps. But the fact he cannot figure out how to fix it is why he needs to go.

 

[LargeFO]

I’m totally hopeful to be wrong but it just reallyyy feels like we are about to waste 2 more years doing absolutely nothing.

 

[FredJacket]

I’m totally hopeful to be wrong but it just reallyyy feels like we are about to waste 2 more years doing absolutely nothing.

Man... I'd like to have a beer with you.

 

[Lagrangejacket]

Coach Hall has probably thought about all of this & more 1000x more than any of us or all of us collectively. Sucks for him... he's actually on the hook (his legacy too) for what has to be done.

On the hook? What accountability has there been? Or will there be?

 

[FredJacket]

On the hook? What accountability has there been? Or will there be?

Ultimately... all of it. My post wasn't making any excuses for him.

 

[57jacket]

Coach Hall has probably thought about all of this & more 1000x more than any of us or all of us collectively. Sucks for him... he's actually on the hook (his legacy too) for what has to be done.

He hired the guy! It's totally on him. AND kept him the entire time.

 

[Quietman6520]

At the end if the day I suspect our recruiting of pitchers has been short-sighted, focused to much on speed and spin and not enough on location and control.

I don't know if that is on DBo or CDH.

Amen !