Hall retained. Borrell fired.

[Augusta_Jacket]

I am curious. For those who think it was a good idea to retain CDH, what is the best case scenario? He has a good year that results in post season appearance but does not result in any meaningful success. Then, he retires. What is the goal here? I do not get it. Why are we extending this agony for our program? We are making a change soon. Why not now? I do not effing get it.

 

[slugboy]

Sounds like there were 1,000,000 reasons why we didn't. I was a bit short of having any influence over the decision. Sorry, every week I keep forgetting to swing by the package store & pick up that Mega Millions winning ticket.

I also keep forgetting to get that ticket

 

[leatherneckjacket]

View attachment 14391

I do not think Tex is on this site. My question is for the fonts here that support retaining Hall.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I do not think Tex is on this site. My question is for the fonts here that support retaining Hall.

Sorry. I was answering the last half of your post.

I do not get it. Why are we extending this agony for our program? We are making a change soon. Why not now? I do not effing get it.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I do not think Tex is on this site. My question is for the fonts here that support retaining Hall.

FWIW, Hall has a winning % of .653 at GT. He's got a winning % of .582 in the ACC at GT. This will be the first time since 2018 we haven't made postseason play. He's taken us to the postseason 79% of his time here. It's not like we are talking about an abject failure of a coach. He recruits well. There are a lot of legitimate reasons to roll the dice with him another season.

 

[FredJacket]

I am curious. For those who think it was a good idea to retain CDH, what is the best case scenario? He has a good year that results in post season appearance but does not result in any meaningful success. Then, he retires. What is the goal here? I do not get it. Why are we extending this agony for our program? We are making a change soon. Why not now? I do not effing get it.

I'm trying to understand your question(s).

The best case scenario is Ga Tech wins way more than expected. Shows improvement over course of next season. Wins the division. ACC Champs. Hosts regional & wins it. Goes to Omaha.

It seems painfully obvious... JBatt (& the big donors) are good with him retiring on his own terms... which will happen no later than 2025. That's the "end game"... what "we" think is OBE now.

Agony? Lol. Every time I think I've heard the most hyperbole... a new word is attributed to the Ga Tech baseball fan experience.

Why not now? ... because it's EXPENSIVE (buyout + lost major donors)... & this next pitching coach will be better (ok that part is full on HOPE).

 

[gtbeak]

I'm trying to understand your question(s).

The best case scenario is Ga Tech wins way more than expected. Shows improvement over course of next season. Wins the division. ACC Champs. Hosts regional & wins it. Goes to Omaha.

It seems painfully obvious... JBatt (& the big donors) are good with him retiring on his own terms... which will happen no later than 2025. That's the "end game"... what "we" think is OBE now.

Agony? Lol. Every time I think I've heard the most hyperbole... a new word is attributed to the Ga Tech baseball fan experience.

Why not now? ... because it's EXPENSIVE (buyout + lost major donors)... & this next pitching coach will be better (ok that part is full on HOPE).

It's a fair question that LNJ has asked. It certainly should have been a question that J Batt asked himself, and one that CFDH should have asked himself. Here is how I would answer...

Best case scenario is as Fred described...the team continues to put up good offensive numbers, it has better fits in the field resulting in better defense, the pitchers pitch to what I believe is their potential under the new pitching coach, and we have a great season resulting in an Omaha run. All this while the school shows respect to their 30 year head coach who has run the program with a level of decency to be admired, and the kids who committed to this school and this coaching staff get a/another season under this staff's influence.

Most realistic optimistic scenario is that the above happens but to a lesser degree, the team is good but not great, gets to the NCAA tournament and maybe somehow sneaks into a super-regional. All this while the school shows respect to their 30 year head coach who has run the program with a level of decency to be admired, and the kids who committed to this school and this coaching staff get a/another season under this staff's influence.

Most realistic pessimistic scenario is that we have another season with an approximate .500 ACC record, showing flashes of what we could be if we could keep the team intact for one more season in 2025 but also a couple of really ugly weekends like last weekend. All this while the school shows respect to their 30 year head coach who has run the program with a level of decency to be admired, and the kids who committed to this school and this coaching staff get a/another season under this staff's influence.

Worst case is that the pitching coach isn't the problem (or the arms can't be fixed in one season) and we have another season like this past season. And next May CDH is relieved of his duties, hopefully voluntarily. But, despite this really bad season, the school shows respect to their 30 year head coach who has run the program with a level of decency to be admired, and the kids who committed to this school and this coaching staff get a/another season under this staff's influence.

I suspect that you see my main reason for opposing firing CFDH. And I understand the POV of folks who disagree with me.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

I'm trying to understand your question(s).

The best case scenario is Ga Tech wins way more than expected. Shows improvement over course of next season. Wins the division. ACC Champs. Hosts regional & wins it. Goes to Omaha.

It seems painfully obvious... JBatt (& the big donors) are good with him retiring on his own terms... which will happen no later than 2025. That's the "end game"... what "we" think is OBE now.

Agony? Lol. Every time I think I've heard the most hyperbole... a new word is attributed to the Ga Tech baseball fan experience.

Why not now? ... because it's EXPENSIVE (buyout + lost major donors)... & this next pitching coach will be better (ok that part is full on HOPE).

Yes, agony. It has been 17 years without a Super Regional despite having talent that should be able get us to Omaha. No program has done less with as much talent as Tech.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

FWIW, Hall has a winning % of .653 at GT. He's got a winning % of .582 in the ACC at GT. This will be the first time since 2018 we haven't made postseason play. He's taken us to the postseason 79% of his time here. It's not like we are talking about an abject failure of a coach. He recruits well. There are a lot of legitimate reasons to roll the dice with him another season.

Given the talent level we have recruited and produced, 17 years without a Super Regional is abject failure. CDH deserves credit for his succes from 1994 through 2006. He deserves to be shown the door for the results since.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

It's a fair question that LNJ has asked. It certainly should have been a question that J Batt asked himself, and one that CFDH should have asked himself. Here is how I would answer...

Best case scenario is as Fred described...the team continues to put up good offensive numbers, it has better fits in the field resulting in better defense, the pitchers pitch to what I believe is their potential under the new pitching coach, and we have a great season resulting in an Omaha run. All this while the school shows respect to their 30 year head coach who has run the program with a level of decency to be admired, and the kids who committed to this school and this coaching staff get a/another season under this staff's influence.

Most realistic optimistic scenario is that the above happens but to a lesser degree, the team is good but not great, gets to the NCAA tournament and maybe somehow sneaks into a super-regional. All this while the school shows respect to their 30 year head coach who has run the program with a level of decency to be admired, and the kids who committed to this school and this coaching staff get a/another season under this staff's influence.

Most realistic pessimistic scenario is that we have another season with an approximate .500 ACC record, showing flashes of what we could be if we could keep the team intact for one more season in 2025 but also a couple of really ugly weekends like last weekend. All this while the school shows respect to their 30 year head coach who has run the program with a level of decency to be admired, and the kids who committed to this school and this coaching staff get a/another season under this staff's influence.

Worst case is that the pitching coach isn't the problem (or the arms can't be fixed in one season) and we have another season like this past season. And next May CDH is relieved of his duties, hopefully voluntarily. But, despite this really bad season, the school shows respect to their 30 year head coach who has run the program with a level of decency to be admired, and the kids who committed to this school and this coaching staff get a/another season under this staff's influence.

I suspect that you see my main reason for opposing firing CFDH. And I understand the POV of folks who disagree with me.

Thank you. I disagree slightly on what is reasonably optimistic.There has been nothing over the last 17 years that leads me to believe we have a reasonable shot at a Super Regional next yet. but that is conjecture on both our parts.

At some point he needs to move on. I hoped it was after his son left. Now, it seems we are dragging this out because no one wants to tell him that despite his great successes, the party is over. Allowing everyone to repeat the underachieving results for another year does not seem like the best way to honor his previous achievements.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

I am curious. For those who think it was a good idea to retain CDH, what is the best case scenario? He has a good year that results in post season appearance but does not result in any meaningful success. Then, he retires. What is the goal here? I do not get it. Why are we extending this agony for our program? We are making a change soon. Why not now? I do not effing get it.

I do not support retaining Hall since I want the team performance to improve and Hall hasn't done it in many years.

I think the people funding this non-revenue sport value Hall's development of select individuals to MLB much more than I do. So he stays.

I expect next season to be like this one. It's not realistic to expect a pitching coach to have a massive impact in 6 months or so. And our pitching was consistently poor the last few years. Some bright spots; but overall bottom of the ACC.

 

[Buzzbomb]

Ugaly has parted ways with Scott Stricklin after 10 years.

 

[FredJacket]

Yes, agony. It has been 17 years without a Super Regional despite having talent that should be able get us to Omaha. No program has done less with as much talent as Tech.

Ok. I'll play along a little more. I understand. I took a shot at the agony thing. I just don't see it as 17 years of agony. Certainly... there have been crushing low points. ...but there have also been some great things that have happened too.

I was not very optimistic heading into this season. Felt the ceiling was top half of ACC, maybe host... & winning a regional would be gravy. That assumed we'd see some big leap with pitching (middle of ACC range). We know that didn't happen & the results resulted in a firing.

2023 is a low point. So your position is understandable. I've become ambivalent about what happens to Hall. I believe JBatt has things to consider we don't even really address here to have the "right" conversation about it.

My biggest hangup about these discussions is we're asked to compare & project a known (Hall) to an unknown (the future). It's easy to say fire the known if you don't like what's going on.... but what next? I won't know how bad I want (or wanted) Hall gone until I see what happens next.

 

[leatherneckjacket]

Ok. I'll play along a little more. I understand. I took a shot at the agony thing. I just don't see it as 17 years of agony. Certainly... there have been crushing low points. ...but there have also been some great things that have happened too.

I was not very optimistic heading into this season. Felt the ceiling was top half of ACC, maybe host... & winning a regional would be gravy. That assumed we'd see some big leap with pitching (middle of ACC range). We know that didn't happen & the results resulted in a firing.

2023 is a low point. So your position is understandable. I've become ambivalent about what happens to Hall. I believe JBatt has things to consider we don't even really address here to have the "right" conversation about it.

My biggest hangup about these discussions is we're asked to compare & project a known (Hall) to an unknown (the future). It's easy to say fire the known if you don't like what's going on.... but what next? I won't know how bad I want (or wanted) Hall gone until I see what happens next.

Fear of some unknown and potentially worse results under a new coach seems like an excuse that prevents us from ever making a change. Using that logic, then no team should ever fire a coach, because it always can be worse.

The real question is it reasonable to believe a new coach can do better and I say absolutely and emphatically YES! That does not mean it is guaranteed, but nothing ever is.

Again, he is not going to be coach for much longer. Even if he is highly successful and figures out a way to get us to a Super Regional, I cannot fathom him still being here more than two years. Since the most likely result is a middle of the pack finish in the ACC and a quick exit from a Regional (if we make it), why prolong the inevitable?

 

[FredJacket]

Fear of some unknown and potentially worse results under a new coach seems like an excuse that prevents us from ever making a change. Using that logic, then no team should ever fire a coach, because it always can be worse.

The real question is it reasonable to believe a new coach can do better and I say absolutely and emphatically YES! That does not mean it is guaranteed, but nothing ever is.

Again, he is not going to be coach for much longer. Even if he is highly successful and figures out a way to get us to a Super Regional, I cannot fathom him still being here more than two years. Since the most likely result is a middle of the pack finish in the ACC and a quick exit from a Regional (if we make it), why prolong the inevitable?

Yes. I'm a card carrying member of the risk-averse club. FWIW... I wanted the last FB coach fired very early in his tenure. But he sucked at his job. CDH doesn't.

 

[gtbeak]

Fear of some unknown and potentially worse results under a new coach seems like an excuse that prevents us from ever making a change. Using that logic, then no team should ever fire a coach, because it always can be worse.

The real question is it reasonable to believe a new coach can do better and I say absolutely and emphatically YES! That does not mean it is guaranteed, but nothing ever is.

Again, he is not going to be coach for much longer. Even if he is highly successful and figures out a way to get us to a Super Regional, I cannot fathom him still being here more than two years. Since the most likely result is a middle of the pack finish in the ACC and a quick exit from a Regional (if we make it), why prolong the inevitable?

I have tended to agree about the length of time that CFDH will be around, meaning 2025 is his last season no matter what. However, I am beginning to question this. He will be 70 when the 2025 season ends, and while most retire at or before that age, it would not be more than 1 sigma outside the expected bounds for him to continue beyond that if things are going well. It was an obvious inflection point and prime time to hang up the cleats after Colin finished up his eligibility, and yet he returned and signed a three year extension. I don't know the man, but have heard from those who claim that they do who say baseball is his life. He has no other hobbies, per these folks. Maybe in his mind retirement equals dieing, and so he plans to continue as long as he can. My grandfather had that attitude, and worked to age 89. He died at the age of 90.

ETA: if that is indeed his thoughts (and J Batt better have a good understanding of this), then it may be necessary for Tech to "retire" him and wish him the best if next season isn't a clear successful season.

 

[CTJacket]

I do not support retaining Hall since I want the team performance to improve and Hall hasn't done it in many years.

I think the people funding this non-revenue sport value Hall's development of select individuals to MLB much more than I do. So he stays.

I expect next season to be like this one. It's not realistic to expect a pitching coach to have a massive impact in 6 months or so. And our pitching was consistently poor the last few years. Some bright spots; but overall bottom of the ACC.

The ONLY reason I think pitching can be improved (I don't mean top of the ACC but middle of the pack would be great improvement) is that we seem to have recruited really well in that area lately. So perhaps a college coach (as opposed to a minor league coach) would have the shorter-term ability to impart quicker improvement.

Other than that I agree with everything else you say.

 

[LongforDodd]

If Hall has the support of Mark Teixeira, he's not going anywhere.

Certainly, Teixeira has the best interest of the school and program at heart. I hope he sees the writing that could be on the wall in that perhaps Hall needs a new career away from the GT dugout.

 

[g0lftime]

Was Borrell calling pitches from the dugout. Type of pitch and location? I could see that alone as a possible improvement.
Did he get the pitchers more focused on mechanics than concentrating on the actual pitch? That happens to golfers all the time, especially in putting.

 

[Buzzbomb]

No one is commenting on the thought Stricklin is available today?
He was a catcher, called good games as a player for “Coach Please Retire Before I Croak.” Could Tech afford him as a Pitching Coach? Well, look at what Borrell is getting through 2025. Yep that’s my fear, we go the cheap way a la Gregory & Pastner. Good coaches who know something about pitching, defense & recruiting are premium hires.