GT needed a change

[White_Gold]

Right. He hired a non-3O/veer offensive coordinator. The reason I’ve heard he did it is because he wants a shot at a P5 job.

That doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to be honest and sounds like it’s perpetuated by 3O fans.

Willie Fritz’s 3O isn’t really a what we’d consider a true 3O veer based offense. He puts triple option plays in his expansive playbook.
He has always run multiple schemes.
But his offense is not solely triple based and even calling it veer based isn’t totally correct.

Actually, his offense and playbook is a prime example of playing to your players’ strengths.

 

[jgtengineer]

White gold explained it editted

Fritz incorperates the concepts behind a zone scheme

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I think it could make sense for Kansas and a few others who generally top out at low 3 star recruiting. Even then, it will take a gutsy AD who is pretty secure in his job.

IMO, the only thing keeping Kansas from trying something like the 3O is that they still dimly remember the wins during Mangino years. Since 1980, Kansas has averaged 4 wins a year. That's including a 12 win and 10 win season. Kansas football, with the exception of the Mangino years, has been dismal for a long time. The AD there could easily hire a 3O coach without much in the way of "guts" needed as the fan base has generally been acclimated to losing football and basketball is preeminent. Other than Nebraska, it's probably the only P5 school I know of that it could be ushered in without a complete revolt by the fans.

 

[smokey_wasp]

IMO, the only thing keeping Kansas from trying something like the 3O is that they still dimly remember the wins during Mangino years. Since 1980, Kansas has averaged 4 wins a year. That's including a 12 win and 10 win season. Kansas football, with the exception of the Mangino years, has been dismal for a long time. The AD there could easily hire a 3O coach without much in the way of "guts" needed as the fan base has generally been acclimated to losing football and basketball is preeminent. Other than Nebraska, it's probably the only P5 school I know of that it could be ushered in without a complete revolt by the fans.

Think there is still enough nostalgia for it at Nebraska? Maybe. Looking at a list of P5 schools, I can't really see any other possibilities either. Duke, maybe if they return to the cellar after Cutcliffe retires. Illinois might want to think about it rather than going for NFL retreads.

 

[AE 87]

If Mich loses to tOSU again, they might bite the bullet. I know some big Michigan fans who say that there was a contingent wanting to go after CPJ a while back.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Think there is still enough nostalgia for it at Nebraska? Maybe. Looking at a list of P5 schools, I can't really see any other possibilities either. Duke, maybe if they return to the cellar after Cutcliffe retires. Illinois might want to think about it rather than going for NFL retreads.

Nebraska won’t need to change imo. I think their current scheme will succeed.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Think there is still enough nostalgia for it at Nebraska? Maybe. Looking at a list of P5 schools, I can't really see any other possibilities either. Duke, maybe if they return to the cellar after Cutcliffe retires. Illinois might want to think about it.

Nebraska still prides themselves on the "idea" of the option. I think you could see a Monken style 3O end up there if Frost and the next coach don't work out. Duke would have been a possibility before Cutcliffe, but I think he's convinced them that they can go the standard route if they're willing to be a roller coaster on the W-L record. (Again, BBall preeminent there so not a hard sell)

I don't know about Illinois. Fans in that area of the midwest tend to follow the Wisc/Iowa brand of power football.

 

[Jim Prather]

I think I missed this meme.

Apparently it was so rare to see him in the Athletic Department offices that his own employees started referring to seeing him as a Sasquatch sighting... Once this got out after he left, the name stuck...

 

[White_Gold]

0 veer plays so far by Fritz tonight

 

[jgtengineer]

0 veer plays so far by Fritz tonight

He did that some games with Southern too. Brieda had a damn near 250 yard game of inside and outside zone once.

 

[THWG16]

GT needed a change for the fan base. I am very happy Monken was not hired as this year and next will be tough no matter who is the coach. All losses would have been blamed on the TO versus the real issue of the last AD and the low level of spending on program (last in the ACC).

I can't say I am a believer in the current coaching team. Yes, I think the recruiting will improve on the offensive side of the ball and will stay about the same on defense (lets see how attrition plays out).

The hype and the stretching of reality gives me pause. Hype can only take you as far as the field, but it will not get you through a game.

People were so ready for something different, something like what UGA did, they did not stop to look at what GT was hiring. Two seasons of 8/4 at Temple with no major change in recruiting. Fans bought the same hype Collins is selling the new recruits.

If you listen to the fans, you'll end up in the stands. All this calling to pass is crazy. The team is not setup to pass. Play TO and play something like Pitt runs. (but i am a fan, don't listen to me). I bet Collins thought he could practice throwing on Citadel before he had the game put away. Get new players and then transition.

Find an effective identity on O and let the D continue to improve. We have who we have at least for 3 to 4 years.

I am not opposed to Monken should we need a change in 3 to 4 years. I don't want to be Duke, WF, or Vandy with an additional handicap of being a stem school... why should we out recruit these guys much less UGA and Clemson?

Duke is leaps & bounds beyond us

 

[THWG16]

Think Citadel with MUCH better players.

Honestly, the TO is an offense that is designed for teams that have restrictions that do not allow them to compete on a level playing field with the big boys. The academies have adopted it because it was th inly way for them to remain competitive and the data is quite clear that it has worked nicely for them.

The argument has long been that big time players don't want to play in that offense and hence your recruiting will drop off. I had thought that was what happened at GT. I concede (and embrace) @Longestday 's point that the recruiting problems may have simply been a lousy AD who starved the football program of the resources it needed. I guess we'll never know if the nay-saying fans who bitterly argued over this point were correct that it hurt recruiting or not. But the results did definitely tail off.

My one concern is that even with a good AD now in TStan, we still are an Institute with severe restrictions which will not allow us to compete head-on with the big boys. I don't think this can be overcome with hype, or even money (although that helps). I think the Institute will always hamper GT from competing the way the SEC (and now Clemson) competes.

Our fan base bravely declares that we don't want to be like them, but then complains bitterly when we lose to them consistently. As O'Leary famously complained, we want to be Harvard during the week and Notre Dame on weekends. (I think he actually used different schools as examples, but you get my point.) Clearly our fan base doesn't know how to run a football program.

Let's hope our AD and Head Coach do.

I don’t know why people say “ we don’t want to be like them “
I respect GT for what it stands for , but I didn’t start cheering for them when I was 8 yrs old cause of the calculus reputation lol, we want to win games & compete , it irritates that there’s people @ GT that don’t care how we look on saturdays !! They don’t know what shape a football is & that kills us

 

[GTFLETCH]

There are many parts playing into the CPJ era.

The history of modern GT football and its average recruiting classes and then...
APR
Bad AD hire
Bad DC hires and low budget DC hires
Last in ACC spending
Russel
CPJ holding on to the OL coach
CPJ not gray, blue, or forcing player out
GT becoming MIT part 2

All this and GT was very relevant over CPJs coaching time frame.

You can hate the O. You can not like CPJ. The man did good by his players and brought some very high moments to the fans.

You have not seen what low looks like... I’m afraid there may be a new bar set over the next two years...

I’m pulling to be wrong ... I want to be wrong about the next 4 years.

The two Biggest issues you missed are the departures of Jeff Monken and Brian Bohanan... I think CPJ never really was able to replace them and what they meant to the staff.

 

[Pointer]

The two Biggest issues you missed are the departures of Jeff Monken and Brian Bohanan... I think CPJ never really was able to replace them and what they meant to the staff.

They were a big loss for sure, but I think he eventually got a decent QB coach, and the o line was adequate. I think the biggest issues in CPJ tenure was the nose dive in funding while everyone else was increasing funding like crazy.

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

And how is it CPJ's responsibilty? Dropping from above average in the ACC to second to last is now the HC's responsibility?

Yes, at least partially.

The money comes from ticket sales and donations in great part.

When you put what is conceived as boring, non P5, not 3 phase focused product on the field with a surly h.c. to non ticket buying public that you need to reach - yes it is at least partially his fault.

When donors may not see the benefit, good use of, or capitalization of their donations - yes it may be partly due to the h,c.

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

Considering they average 2 wins a year I'd think they would be looking for any advantage.

Jeepers. Are you saying we were 1 of 2 for their year?

And they just got an advantage with Miles. That is the guy that slaughtered our 3O

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Jeepers. Are you saying we were 1 of 2 for their year?

And they just got an advantage with Miles. That is the guy that slaughtered our 3O

We will see. If Miles were that great an advantage it's quite shocking how few teams came calling for him.

 

[MWBATL]

Jeepers. Are you saying we were 1 of 2 for their year?

And they just got an advantage with Miles. That is the guy that slaughtered our 3O

Uhh, no. It wasn’t Miles’ scheme that stopped our 3O, it was far superior talent along the lines.

 

[Adadu]

GT needed a change for the fan base. I am very happy Monken was not hired as this year and next will be tough no matter who is the coach. All losses would have been blamed on the TO versus the real issue of the last AD and the low level of spending on program (last in the ACC).

I can't say I am a believer in the current coaching team. Yes, I think the recruiting will improve on the offensive side of the ball and will stay about the same on defense (lets see how attrition plays out).

The hype and the stretching of reality gives me pause. Hype can only take you as far as the field, but it will not get you through a game.

People were so ready for something different, something like what UGA did, they did not stop to look at what GT was hiring. Two seasons of 8/4 at Temple with no major change in recruiting. Fans bought the same hype Collins is selling the new recruits.

If you listen to the fans, you'll end up in the stands. All this calling to pass is crazy. The team is not setup to pass. Play TO and play something like Pitt runs. (but i am a fan, don't listen to me). I bet Collins thought he could practice throwing on Citadel before he had the game put away. Get new players and then transition.

Find an effective identity on O and let the D continue to improve. We have who we have at least for 3 to 4 years.

I am not opposed to Monken should we need a change in 3 to 4 years. I don't want to be Duke, WF, or Vandy with an additional handicap of being a stem school... why should we out recruit these guys much less UGA and Clemson?

Literally got lambasted for the same stance on this forum. I completely agree.

 

[Pointer]

Yes, at least partially.

The money comes from ticket sales and donations in great part.

When you put what is conceived as boring, non P5, not 3 phase focused product on the field with a surly h.c. to non ticket buying public that you need to reach - yes it is at least partially his fault.

When donors may not see the benefit, good use of, or capitalization of their donations - yes it may be partly due to the h,c.

Dude stop, he put together some of the most successful seasons in the last few decades. If what it takes to get people excited has more to do with flash and "exciting football" (with does that mean anyways) then why keep score, let's just determine that the most "exciting" team wins. For me winning the orange bowl, acc and multiple 10 win seasons is pretty exciting. Again if that's not enough to get the fans in the stands, then people don't care for winning.