GT - ND postgame thread

[tmhunter52]

I am curious. How do college football QB coach separate and assess the different qualities of their QB candidates? If you can’t have it all, is it better to have a good game manager at QB (one that sees the field, recognizes defenses, delivers the ball on time (even if it looks like a lame duck), recognizes when to tuck it and run, etc.) or a dazzling playmaker who is a little faster, a little more elusive, throws a tight spiral, but cannot figure out what’s going on on the defense and cannot see the field? I ask because the dazzling playmakers get to be college QBs on their athleticism, while the less talented ones get there because they excelled, in part, on the mental aspects of the game. I am wondering because I remember George Godsey - not the greatest athlete, as I recall - and I wonder how someone like Tucker Gleason would compare, given the chance?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Even including the final drive of Nd, 31 points in 10 drives is not good. I don’t think we were atrocious, but tonight was not a good showing. There are other things to worry about, but we shouldn’t beat our chests because ND scored 31 points in 10 attempts.

I said giving up 31 points to the #4 team in the country is not bad. Not sure how you come away with saying that’s beating our chests. Weird.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Did any of y’all read any of the pregame write ups from national writers or even ND writers? Notre Dame was working on their passing game all night because that is the weakest part of their offense. Our defense basically played scout team are they practiced during a scrimmage. Nice. And they soundly beat us wearing our traditional uniforms in our stadium on national TV.

 

[4shotB]

Lol. This is so weak, but since I have seen it so many times, I have to respond. You mean the same Minnesota that ended up winning 11 of its next 13 games and being ranked #10 in the nation?

Thanks for the reply. It looks like I didn't give them enough credit. Apolgies to you and any Gopher fans here. However, the larger picture remains: Minnesota beat us in the same fashion that ND did year. That game looked the same in the "eyeball" test and the scores were relatively the same. We looked equally as inept and outclassed like an FCS team playing a ranked FBS team at homecoming.

Look at the 2 box scores; GT uv. UM, GT vs. ND - I just did, we had approx. 50 yards more of offense against the Gophers for those that really like to argue minutiae. This underwhelming performance came from a staff that had been in place 10 years here at the Flats which is probably what bothers me the most. Prior to this, I had always felt like GT needed a coach to stay in place for 6-7 years + to really make inrods into the Ga. HS recruiting pipeline. TBH, that looks like that didn't materialize like many of us hoped. We don't need to discuss the reasons. that has been done here already.

I am not saying that I know for sure how the CCG era will end. But I do know he inherited a train wreck. Partly due to Paul and partly due to the AD's he worked with. Maybe with Saban and his staff we might look a little sharper, crisper, more efficient on game day - but the bottom line record ain't changing. We are so bad at so many positions that is unreal and harkens back to the day of the "dark days" of the early '80's. This program was left in bad shape and I think trying to judge this staff in year two is absurd. Are they beyond or above criticism at the present time. No the are not. I think they are learning on the job so to speak given their ages and relative experiences. I think year 4 is when you can assess accurately what is happening. Do I like that? No, but I don't like paying taxes or cutting the grass either. IIWII.

 

[orientalnc]

Before the season, a lot of us said this season might not produce more victories while the team might be a lot better. I honestly believe that is the case even as we voice our frustrations. The Clemson game was hard to watch and my expectations were not met in the BC game, but yesterday was about what I expected. I am not blaming Coach Johnson for the disappointments of this year and last, but the holdovers from his roster in 2018 had little to offer the new staff other than their willingness to work hard and play hard.

I hope we continue to improve, but don't expect us to be Clemson next year. This is going to take a while.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Not gonna lie, I have been hearing/seeing/saying “we need to clean up mistakes” for 6 or 7 weeks now and I’m pretty over it.

I’m really trying to be patient though.

Every team has to clean up mistakes. We had 1 turnover yesterday. It doesn’t need to get cleaned up - a great DE beat our good true freshman OT. That’s football. We continue to average missing 2-4 points per game on kicking. But that’s better than 20 points from turnovers. The last 4 games have included 3 of the top 5 defenses in the ACC and 2 of the top 4 teams nationally. We were overpowered on size and talent yesterday more than making mistakes.

The perfect example I saw was just little flare out patterns by our TEs. They’d block for a second then spring loose. They’d have a 5 yard gap on the LB, but the LB would see them spring loose, close the gap like we were standing in mud, and kill the play. That play is always wide open and we can’t even run it.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Thanks for the reply. It looks like I didn't give them enough credit. Apolgies to you and any Gopher fans here. However, the larger picture remains: Minnesota beat us in the same fashion that ND did year. That game looked the same in the "eyeball" test and the scores were relatively the same. We looked equally as inept and outclassed like an FCS team playing a ranked FBS team at homecoming.

Look at the 2 box scores; GT uv. UM, GT vs. ND - I just did, we had approx. 50 yards more of offense against the Gophers for those that really like to argue minutiae. This underwhelming performance came from a staff that had been in place 10 years here at the Flats which is probably what bothers me the most. Prior to this, I had always felt like GT needed a coach to stay in place for 6-7 years + to really make inrods into the Ga. HS recruiting pipeline. TBH, that looks like that didn't materialize like many of us hoped. We don't need to discuss the reasons. that has been done here already.

I am not saying that I know for sure how the CCG era will end. But I do know he inherited a train wreck. Partly due to Paul and partly due to the AD's he worked with. Maybe with Saban and his staff we might look a little sharper, crisper, more efficient on game day - but the bottom line record ain't changing. We are so bad at so many positions that is unreal and harkens back to the day of the "dark days" of the early '80's. This program was left in bad shape and I think trying to judge this staff in year two is absurd. Are they beyond or above criticism at the present time. No the are not. I think they are learning on the job so to speak given their ages and relative experiences. I think year 4 is when you can assess accurately what is happening. Do I like that? No, but I don't like paying taxes or cutting the grass either. IIWII.

This is well said. For the folks complaining that “we never lost like this” before, having 150 yards of offense against Clemson can only end in 45-14 games because of reduced possessions. Notre Dame controlled the clock yesterday. Now imagine our same old team on the field from a few years ago, only getting like 150-200 yards of offense. We would have churned more clock but that’s about it. The game would have been like 24-7 or 24-13. Looks like a big success against the #4 team when all it really was is running the clock faster. To be able to actually beat them some day we need to try something different and we are.

 

[orientalnc]

Every team has to clean up mistakes. We had 1 turnover yesterday. It doesn’t need to get cleaned up - a great DE beat our good true freshman OT. That’s football. We continue to average missing 2-4 points per game on kicking. But that’s better than 20 points from turnovers. The last 4 games have included 3 of the top 5 defenses in the ACC and 2 of the top 4 teams nationally. We were overpowered on size and talent yesterday more than making mistakes.

The perfect example I saw was just little flare out patterns by our TEs. They’d block for a second then spring loose. They’d have a 5 yard gap on the LB, but the LB would see them spring loose, close the gap like we were standing in mud, and kill the play. That play is always wide open and we can’t even run it.

Maybe it's because they were better positioned or just better athletes, but they also looked a lot faster than us. Except for the scoop and score, we never seemed to have a speed advantage.

 

[Skeptic]

Before the season, a lot of us said this season might not produce more victories while the team might be a lot better. I honestly believe that is the case even as we voice our frustrations. The Clemson game was hard to watch and my expectations were not met in the BC game, but yesterday was about what I expected. I am not blaming Coach Johnson for the disappointments of this year and last, but the holdovers from his roster in 2018 had little to offer the new staff other than its willingness to work hard and play hard.

I hope we continue to improve, but don't expect us to be Clemson next year. This is going to take a while.

There is no question the players from Johnson's scheme did not fit well with Collins' offense. It is also true that Collins made no effort to adjust his expectations and offense to take advantage of what they brought to the table. I have never read or heard any different than a good coach fits his scheme to the personnel, and not vice versa. Probably would not have been much better, but some, and I would personally feel better about the rushed coaching hire. (Folks were not standing in line to hire Collins, you know, not even as a coordinator.)

We will get better. I am just not sure how much better, and with the ACC on a resurgence with Miami, FSU, VT, UNC, Louisville reloading, it could be a relative thing anyway. But a major complaint remains the same: will Collins show a little enthusiasm for his "dream job" on the sideline?

 

[4shotB]

We continue to average missing 2-4 points per game on kicking.

My brother is an Ohio State alum. He called to talk about some family matters and while we were talking, I cheered because we actually got a FG off. When I told him that we were 1-5 up to that point with the last 4 being blocked he thought I was kidding and over exagerating the state of affairs on the Flats. He knows we are bad but I am not sure he believed what I told him. Life is different for folks on the other side of the tracks. Those people don't think things like this can actually be real.

 

[orientalnc]

There is no question the players from Johnson's scheme did not fit well with Collins' offense. It is also true that Collins made no effort to adjust his expectations and offense to take advantage of what they brought to the table. I have never read or heard any different than a good coach fits his scheme to the personnel, and not vice versa. Probably would not have been much better, but some, and I would personally feel better about the rushed coaching hire. (Folks were not standing in line to hire Collins, you know, not even as a coordinator.)

We will get better. I am just not sure how much better, and with the ACC on a resurgence with Miami, FSU, VT, UNC, Louisville reloading, it could be a relative thing anyway. But a major complaint remains the same: will Collins show a little enthusiasm for his "dream job" on the sideline?

Are you suggesting Collins should have run the option for a couple of years while converting the roster?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

There is no question the players from Johnson's scheme did not fit well with Collins' offense. It is also true that Collins made no effort to adjust his expectations and offense to take advantage of what they brought to the table. I have never read or heard any different than a good coach fits his scheme to the personnel, and not vice versa. Probably would not have been much better, but some, and I would personally feel better about the rushed coaching hire. (Folks were not standing in line to hire Collins, you know, not even as a coordinator.)

We will get better. I am just not sure how much better, and with the ACC on a resurgence with Miami, FSU, VT, UNC, Louisville reloading, it could be a relative thing anyway. But a major complaint remains the same: will Collins show a little enthusiasm for his "dream job" on the sideline?

I think Collins was the perfect fit here and perfect hire. I’m not sure we could have gotten 2x the money to hire more established P5 coaches, but I could be wrong.

 

[Dress2Jacket]

I am curious. How do college football QB coach separate and assess the different qualities of their QB candidates? If you can’t have it all, is it better to have a good game manager at QB (one that sees the field, recognizes defenses, delivers the ball on time (even if it looks like a lame duck), recognizes when to tuck it and run, etc.) or a dazzling playmaker who is a little faster, a little more elusive, throws a tight spiral, but cannot figure out what’s going on on the defense and cannot see the field? I ask because the dazzling playmakers get to be college QBs on their athleticism, while the less talented ones get there because they excelled, in part, on the mental aspects of the game. I am wondering because I remember George Godsey - not the greatest athlete, as I recall - and I wonder how someone like Tucker Gleason would compare, given the chance?

The question is whether you want to win or whether you want to win big. In today's game, to win big, you absolutely need the Star QB, not the game manager. That's generally the difference between UGA and the likes of Clemson, Alabama, and LSU.

Godsey wasn't a game manager. He read the defense very well, checked into good plays, and put the ball exactly where it needed to be and on time. That release and throwing ability is not the signature of a game manager.

 

[stech81]

some times to rebuild you really don't have to tear it down to the ground to start over. and tell me again why our 2 kickers left the team after last year. I'll buy it will take awhile to rebuild the offense but the defense ? It sucks this year , yes I know it has been bad for years but not this bad this is worse the our defense in 1994 which was bad .

 

[gt02]

Thanks for the reply. It looks like I didn't give them enough credit. Apolgies to you and any Gopher fans here. However, the larger picture remains: Minnesota beat us in the same fashion that ND did year. That game looked the same in the "eyeball" test and the scores were relatively the same. We looked equally as inept and outclassed like an FCS team playing a ranked FBS team at homecoming.

Look at the 2 box scores; GT uv. UM, GT vs. ND - I just did, we had approx. 50 yards more of offense against the Gophers for those that really like to argue minutiae. This underwhelming performance came from a staff that had been in place 10 years here at the Flats which is probably what bothers me the most. Prior to this, I had always felt like GT needed a coach to stay in place for 6-7 years + to really make inrods into the Ga. HS recruiting pipeline. TBH, that looks like that didn't materialize like many of us hoped. We don't need to discuss the reasons. that has been done here already.

I am not saying that I know for sure how the CCG era will end. But I do know he inherited a train wreck. Partly due to Paul and partly due to the AD's he worked with. Maybe with Saban and his staff we might look a little sharper, crisper, more efficient on game day - but the bottom line record ain't changing. We are so bad at so many positions that is unreal and harkens back to the day of the "dark days" of the early '80's. This program was left in bad shape and I think trying to judge this staff in year two is absurd. Are they beyond or above criticism at the present time. No the are not. I think they are learning on the job so to speak given their ages and relative experiences. I think year 4 is when you can assess accurately what is happening. Do I like that? No, but I don't like paying taxes or cutting the grass either. IIWII.

You said let's look at the "larger picture," and then you literally just drew your conclusion from the same thing: a single game against a Minnesota team that would go on to win 11 of its next 13 games, including against #4 Penn State and and #12 Auburn. Keep in mind that CPJ was a lame duck coach at that point, as he had already announced his resignation.

Having said that, you don't need to respond with the usual cherry picked facts (our W/L vs. Duke, our overall record the past ten years if you exclude the years we were good, our overall record the past ten years if you exclude the years we had someone else's recruits such as a walk-on center that went on to become all conference, etc.). I also don't need any more discussion of the eye-ball test, which is code for saying that you don't have any real data to back up your point. I am not here to compare CGC to CPJ (although CPJ would have a 8-10 win team with the talent at the skill positions on this team, no question).

My fundamental problem with our team is not that we are losing, and it is not that we are getting out athlete-d. I expected that, and I give GC a pass on that until we get his players. What I did not expect is a a coach and team that just looks in over its head. We look poorly coached out there. We can keep blaming the players if we want, but if you are the coach, the buck stops with you. And again, I am not suggesting that we would turn to the bench and all of a sudden have a 6'6 300lb tackle. But the fundamentals look lost with these guys.

So please, please explain to me how a SR LB constantly out of position, not knowing his assignments, not knowing when to commit to a scrambling QB, etc. is a problem from the prior regime. These are all mental errors. Please tell me how the prior regime's "train wreck" causes us to use timeouts at the worst time. Or how they cause us to think that on 4th and short, we are better off running up the gut against the number 1 team in the nation. Or how they cause us to not be able to make a FG anymore. The list could go on.

 

[wesgt123]

Every team has to clean up mistakes. We had 1 turnover yesterday. It doesn’t need to get cleaned up - a great DE beat our good true freshman OT. That’s football. We continue to average missing 2-4 points per game on kicking. But that’s better than 20 points from turnovers. The last 4 games have included 3 of the top 5 defenses in the ACC and 2 of the top 4 teams nationally. We were overpowered on size and talent yesterday more than making mistakes.

The perfect example I saw was just little flare out patterns by our TEs. They’d block for a second then spring loose. They’d have a 5 yard gap on the LB, but the LB would see them spring loose, close the gap like we were standing in mud, and kill the play. That play is always wide open and we can’t even run it.

Eh yeah we are overpowered and outmanned but it’s exhausting to see. It’s either we are overmatched against a top team, or we play like *** against a mediocre team and lose anyways.
Seems like it’s always something to handicap us and I guess that’s just football too.

We just look like we play dumb football a lot of times. Terrible clock management. Watching curry flow with the QB and stare at him waiting for him to throw without deciding to pressure him is maddening. If i keep going this will turn into a rant. There isn’t anything I can say that hasn’t been said a million times already.

Watching football isn’t fun anymore. Nobody is allowed to criticize anyone (players and/or coaches) without getting backlash. If you’re claiming be patient with Collins, you’ll get backlash too. Winning will solve all of this but that isn’t a feasible solution right now.

 

[lv20gt]

So please, please explain to me how a SR LB constantly out of position, not knowing his assignments, not knowing when to commit to a scrambling QB, etc. is a problem from the prior regime.

Do you really need to be explained why a guy recruited by the previous staff and spent 4 years being coached by the previous staff making mistakes related to coaching is a problem from the previous staff?

 

[gt02]

Do you really need to be explained why a guy recruited by the previous staff and spent 4 years being coached by the previous staff making mistakes related to coaching is a problem from the previous staff?

Yes. I do. Explain to me how we haven't been able to fix those mistakes. You want to throw the player under the bus? Ok, then tell me: is Nate Woody on the sidelines calling the defensive plays? Is Ted Roof drawing up the ATL chart? Is the ghost of Al Groh what is preventing us from playing someone else? Is it really true that all of our other LBs, including the 4* LBs we have on the sideline (now that this board has become an overnight fan of recruiting rankings) are that much worse that they can't see time in a 73-7 loss or a blowout against BC or ND?

 

[lv20gt]

Yes. I do.

Okay. Curry was recruited by the previous staff and coached for 4 years by the previous staff. He is almost entirely a product of the previous staff. He is literally the worst example of the point you are trying to prove.

 

[slugboy]

I’m one of the couple of hundred thousand who Ga Power hasn’t restored power to, so I heard Ballard’s radio version yesterday instead of watching. I’ll watch when I get electrified again.
There’s understandable frustration here (I’m frustrated too), and I’ll try to respond in the places I think I might be helpful
(This is from my iPhone today, so no fancy stuff)

2019 type game

Can’t scheme around bad OL play. Just outmanned yo front

Really tough to play defense when you have 9-10 players vs. 11.

Little league coaches teach LBs that once the QB scramble outside of the pocket to your side come out of your zone and rush him. Didn’t see that once

Just observations in the midst of a team that’s learning, mostly.

I’ve seen athletes in different sports regress in other areas when one part of their play gets corrected. For example, you’re thinking so much about keeping your head up during a tackle that you slow down and make the wrong read. There’s only so much head space a player has for “thinking”, as opposed to things he’s worked down to a reflex. I don’t know if that’s happening here.

These defensive bad habits aren’t a 2020 thing. We’ve been doing it for years (maybe going back to when Tenuta left, or maybe post-Kelley; I’m not sure ). I’ve seen a lot of people say “put the freshmen in” but maybe we should just get them playing right so that when they do go in they have good habits. Some of these habits are so ingrained that I’m wondering if we can exorcise them.

I’ll have to see the OL, but that definitely happened at Clemson. We’re losing a few good players to graduation I think (is this Minihan’s last year?), so this year’s incoming class is a big deal

...

This is a complaint and I’ll admit it. I just don’t understand our LB play ! I watch one of them in particular and I just don’t understand what he sees or is doing. There is a lot of dancing when a linemen is in his way, almost as if he ( our LBer) is a ball carrier trying to juke a tackle. On other plays he goes 100 MPH into the gap or the scrum, often it’s the wrong gap and it looks like he thinks he can blow up the scrum Rather than playing over the top and meeting the RB coming out the end. On another play he paralleled the scrambling QB and kinda danced that juking crap 5 yards in front of the QB when there was nobody between them. He never committed to going toward the QB, that resulted in another 3rd down conversion On a pass completion, I think he did the same thing on NDs first TD.
Can someone watch NDs rushing TD after our 3rd quarter fumble (when ND drove down and went up 24-7) and tell me where our LBer was going on the TD run ? The RB scored by running exactly where our LB vacated to blast into a gap on the opposite end of the play. Again I may be wrong but someone please explain what he’s doing or what you think he’s doing, please ! I don’t think he’s reading the field, angles or anything else. It’s almost as if he makes up his mind before the play and just blast a spot on the snap. Maybe that’s what they want him to do, when he blast the right gap he looks like he’s making an awesome play, I’m not sure given the fact that the next play he will be totally out of position again. I think our LBer play alone is the reason we give up so many 3rd downs. They just aren’t where I think they are suppose to be.

I’m half asking and half bitchin, Ibeeballin can you help me ? What are our LBers doing or not doing ? Are they out of control ?

The condensed game will be on the ACC Network YouTube channel either today or tomorrow. If you’re really interested, hitting the gear in the YouTube player and setting it to 0.25 speed is the best way to see what’s happening. (Ibeattetris has a way with the browser developer tools to set the video playback to any speed you want)
Curry will look better in comparison when you do this. He’s still making mistakes, but others are having worse games. Some players are getting completely blocked, hesitating, and getting caught in no man’s land. If it’s like BC, you’ll see multiple players going to the same gap. There were players trying to compensate for teammates instead of doing their assignments, and that just cascades down.

So are our coaches telling LBs not to do this? At one point Curry ran up to the QB and just shuffled his feet in front of him while he waited for a receiver to get open...which of course happened and then they completed a pass

Thacker didn’t call Curry out by name (which means he’s being classier than I am right now) but he’s coached to be quick and decisive and do the opposite of what he did there. Last week he missed the tackle and BC got a huge completion instead of us getting a sack. Maybe he was just too scared of getting sidestepped again so he made a different mistake.

There are problems because of physical mismatches, but we compound that with mental mistakes because we’ve gotten into our own heads.

I don’t envy the coaches right now. It’s like they’re repairing a house, and every time they go to repair one problem they find a new and worse problem that’s been covered over, like finding a door that doesn’t close correctly because you need to call in a structural engineer, or that your house is wired with aluminum wiring. On defense, we’ve gone 10 years with problems we haven’t fixed, just schemes around, and they’ll stick out like a sore thumb when you do try to fix them.