GT 2017= what I have been waiting for on offense (Navy 2.0)

vamosjackets

vamosjackets

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lv20gt said:
First, I couldn't care less about NFL achievements. GT isn't in the NFL and we don't have an offense that translates at all to the NFL.

Secondly, what NFL achievements? He was a career practice player and special teams guy. What little offense he did play was as a fullback, a position we don't actually have. We saw what happened when we tried to play a true fullback at bback.
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First, the argument isn't about how much anyone "cares" about the NFL, the argument is about the relative talent of players. Do you really believe that professional football has no relevance to a discussion about football talent? NFL seems to be the best (re: most objective) way to compare players across conferences and levels of lower-division college football.

Second, he played RB not FB for the Patriots and Eagles. Scored 2 TD's as a RB, started on special teams, got special teams MVP honors once. These achievements are higher than most GT RB's going all the way back (not just CPJ). It certainly goes against your apparent certainty that he was behind all but Skov in talent and willingness to describe disagreements as "absurd".

Are you willing to admit the possibility of some sort of bias?
 
SidewalkJacket

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SlawDog said:
Skov, Days, Marshall
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I'll give you Skov. I think the competition b/w him and Days would have been a good one. Marshall? LOL.

I loved the guy at Navy. Carved out a decent little 5 year NFL career. Got 59 carries and averaged 3.0 ypc. Benefitted in getting drafted due to being the workhorse at Navy and landing in NE after a year, where they have a pretty good track record of turning utility players into valuable tools. I'll posit that if any GT starting BB ended up with New England for two years they would have had as good or better numbers.

But I think we're running up against the same "defend the white guy at all cost" argument we seem to get into in some of these threads.
 

lv20gt

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vamosjackets said:
Do you really believe that professional football has no relevance to a discussion about football talent?
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I think it has very little when it comes to our offense, especially when the career was as minor as his was in the NFL. Being a practice player and being good on special teams in the NFL doesn't mean he would be any better as a running back in college. This isn't a guy who had several years as the #2 RB getting some carries. He was a practice and ST player who rarely got touches of the ball.

vamosjackets said:
Second, he played RB not FB for the Patriots and Eagles. Scored 2 TD's as a RB, started on special teams, got special teams MVP honors once. These achievements are higher than most GT RB's going all the way back (not just CPJ). It certainly goes against your apparent certainty that he was behind all but Skov in talent and willingness to describe disagreements as "absurd".
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He played RB when they wanted a short yard back late in blowouts. He was effectively a FB. His first TD came with under 20 seconds to go in a game where the pats were up 14. His second came when the Pats were up 42-10. NFL career would mean something if it was actually significant. It wasn't, especially when talking about as a running back.

Eckel, the two years he started at Navy averaged 5.08 ypc (4.7 for his career btw)
Mills as a freshman averaged 5.07 against better competition
Marcus Marshal averaged over 7 per carry against better competition on ~180 career attempts.
Days, when he actually got a chance to show what he got, had 141 carries for an average of 5.9 ypc, 5.5 for his career.
Laskey averaged 5.2 ypc for his career.
Sims averaged 5.14 (brought down by an injury plagued junior year btw) 5.9 his senior year
Allen the year he played bback averaged 5.5, 6.36 for his GT career, and 5.56 for his career
Dwyer averaged 7.0 his first year in the system, 5.9 his second, and on his career averaged 6.23.

Eckel had a lower ypc than any of our bback but a freshman Mills who will almost certainly pass him

Dwyer, Allen, Days, and Marshall it isn't even a close debate. Yes, it's absurd to say eckel would be better than any of them. Sims when healthy was significantly better. That leaves only Mills and Laskey. And no, I'm not biased when it comes to this. I'm probably the person that thinks the least of Laskey on here. To me he was wholly unremarkable as a starter and it was extremely foolish that Johnson had him as the only guy getting reps at the position to start 2014. That being said I don't see any reason to think that Eckel would be better than Laskey. Also, when it comes to Mills, I might again be the person least high on him. I was of the opinion last year that Marshall was the better all around back, and it was a mistake for Mills to get the usage that he did, and that his inability to hit the big play will hurt us this year. But again, there is zero reason to think that he won't end up significantly better than Eckel.
 
vamosjackets

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lv20gt said:
I think it has very little when it comes to our offense, especially when the career was as minor as his was in the NFL. Being a practice player and being good on special teams in the NFL doesn't mean he would be any better as a running back in college. This isn't a guy who had several years as the #2 RB getting some carries. He was a practice and ST player who rarely got touches of the ball.



He played RB when they wanted a short yard back late in blowouts. He was effectively a FB. His first TD came with under 20 seconds to go in a game where the pats were up 14. His second came when the Pats were up 42-10. NFL career would mean something if it was actually significant. It wasn't, especially when talking about as a running back.

Eckel, the two years he started at Navy averaged 5.08 ypc (4.7 for his career btw)
Mills as a freshman averaged 5.07 against better competition
Marcus Marshal averaged over 7 per carry against better competition on ~180 career attempts.
Days, when he actually got a chance to show what he got, had 141 carries for an average of 5.9 ypc, 5.5 for his career.
Laskey averaged 5.2 ypc for his career.
Sims averaged 5.14 (brought down by an injury plagued junior year btw) 5.9 his senior year
Allen the year he played bback averaged 5.5, 6.36 for his GT career, and 5.56 for his career
Dwyer averaged 7.0 his first year in the system, 5.9 his second, and on his career averaged 6.23.

Eckel had a lower ypc than any of our bback but a freshman Mills who will almost certainly pass him

Dwyer, Allen, Days, and Marshall it isn't even a close debate. Yes, it's absurd to say eckel would be better than any of them. Sims when healthy was significantly better. That leaves only Mills and Laskey. And no, I'm not biased when it comes to this. I'm probably the person that thinks the least of Laskey on here. To me he was wholly unremarkable as a starter and it was extremely foolish that Johnson had him as the only guy getting reps at the position to start 2014. That being said I don't see any reason to think that Eckel would be better than Laskey. Also, when it comes to Mills, I might again be the person least high on him. I was of the opinion last year that Marshall was the better all around back, and it was a mistake for Mills to get the usage that he did, and that his inability to hit the big play will hurt us this year. But again, there is zero reason to think that he won't end up significantly better than Eckel.
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I could argue more, but I can see it's useless, so all I'll says is:
WOWWW. So, you're smarter than me, everyone else on this board, Paul Johnson, Bill Belichik, Sean Peyton, and whoever the coaches were in Miami and Denver. You remind me of this guy:
1e2a7p.jpg


And, as far as you continuing to use the word absurd for anyone who thinks it would even be a competition:
giphy.gif
 

lv20gt

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vamosjackets said:
WOWWW. So, you're smarter than me, everyone else on this board, Paul Johnson, Bill Belichik, Sean Peyton, and whoever the coaches were in Miami and Denver.
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Show me where any of them have said that Eckel would be better for GT than the Bbacks we have had.
 
vamosjackets

vamosjackets

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lv20gt said:
Show me where any of them have said that Eckel would be better for GT than the Bbacks we have had.
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Belichik signed the guy twice ... AND put him on his 55-man roster AS A RB ... AND put him in the game ... AND gave him the ball.
Did he do that for Sims, Laskey, Days? Could he have ... ?

The line of reasoning for the other NFL coaches is similar.

You thinking you're smarter than CPJ has nothing to do with Eckel.
 

lv20gt

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vamosjackets said:
Belichik signed the guy twice ... AND put him on his 55-man roster AS A RB ... AND put him in the game ... AND gave him the ball.
Did he do that for Sims, Laskey, Days? Could he have ... ?
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No, because none of them were eligible for the NFL in 2010 or before.
 
Whiskey_Clear

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I admit my eval of Eckel was based on a simple highlight reel. Great dozer but seemed to have less breakaway ability than most of our guys at Bback.

He did look to be certain to gain positive yards and was a beast to bring down. Attributes I probably undervalued looking at him. I probably sold him short and his pro career does have merit in this discussion. Roster spots are to valuable to give away Willy nilly and the Pats have a rep for building great teams. If he had only ever been a practice player I'd have a different take. Super Bowl teams' active rosters dont have space for projects. They have to be contributors.
 

lv20gt

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vamosjackets said:
Ohhhhh, so now you're out of the speculation business ... that was sudden.
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LOL. I didn't answer for the same reason I didn't answer the question of

vamosjackets said:
Why would an NFL team (or any for-profit organization) pay someone to work for them who was behind someone else that they could easily hire in talent?
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Because it's not relevant. Nobody in the NFL actively chose Eckel over any of our BBacks because Eckel was out of the NFL before any but Dwyer were in there, and that was a spot for barely over a week. Whatever reason Belichik had for picking Eckel has absolutely nothing to do with any of our BBacks, and it certainly isn't any sort of indicator of his opinion on which player would be a better BBack for Georgia Tech.

Then again, I'm still waiting on you to show me where any of the coaches you mentioned actually said that they'd take Eckel over our BBacks. Actually I'm not, because I know you aren't going to. Just like I'm not actually expecting you to say anything about the comparison of the players when they were actually playing in the offense. However I do highly anticipate your next meme filled post.
 
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