Expectations for GT Football

[forensicbuzz]

If you read my post, then you know I am NOT expecting a COMPLETE turnaround. What I expect in year three of this process is IMPROVEMENT, measured in wins. Who really cares if the offense is better and the defense is the same after 2 years? Maybe a few of us die-hard fans. But not many others.
You seem to have several posters who confirm what you want to believe and consider them "experts". Is that confirmation bias ? Darn right it is.
What I personally don't like , are the "experts" on this board ( measured by number of posts ?? )who put in writing that someone like me ( Tech grad 1973 , lifelong fan and more than casual observer, BTW) is tearing down their school and program. When I observe that IMO, the coaches are not meeting MY expectations because of lack of preparation , etc.. it gives me no pleasure in writing that. But I thought this board was about airing our grievances among TECH SUPPORTERS and would be treated with respect as a difference of opinion. This is not a board that I expect to get schooled ( hate fans like you, exaggerations are preposterous , My GOD ) by the self appointed experts on said board.
Did I imply that if someone does not agree with me that they are " drinking the kool aid" or have "blinders on "? I could have, but I know and RESPECT that others have different opinions.
The very LAST thing this program needs is to begin "eating our young". Does that mean we should all celebrate and sing kumbaya all the time ? Of course not !
But when we begin measuring fans to see if their opinions are "worthy " enough to be appreciated on a board that is specifically set up to encourage opinions, then I am afraid we are missing the mark. We cannot afford to put down or disrespect any TRUE Tech fan and make them feel as if they don't quite measure up. There are way too few of us as there is. THWG.

I hear you. I understand what you're saying. Maybe we're not as far apart as it may seem. As I stated a couple of times, my frustration is with a class of fans, not an individual. When I repeatedly see 6 wins next year or the coach is on the hot seat and the program is going in the wrong direction, I get pissed off. Why? Because those statements are opinions that have a negative affect on other fans and potentially recruits that may wander onto our board. There's no sunshine or gold-tinted glasses here. I see the flaws. I see what needs to improve. I've said that.

But, Year 3 isn't a make or break year for this program or for recruiting, it's the couple of years after that. You happened to be the post that got the brunt of my frustration, so I apologize for that. But this year may be good, it may be bad, it may be great. Based on what I saw this year (a year with limited spring practice, no summer, and delayed fall practices, in the middle of a pandemic) we did progress in every aspect of our team. The statistics for the defense may not have been better, but I'd take this year's defense over last year's defense any day. The coaching also looked better to me as well.

These observations are being confirmed by guys who played at GT, confirmed they played at Tech. Opinions I give greater weight than that of myself or another average fan on a message board. So, although I hear and understand what you're saying, I think it's damaging for you and others to continue the diatribe about "hot seats" and "affecting recruiting" in face of evidence to the contrary.

 

[Sheboygan]

I hear you. I understand what you're saying. Maybe we're not as far apart as it may seem. As I stated a couple of times, my frustration is with a class of fans, not an individual. When I repeatedly see 6 wins next year or the coach is on the hot seat and the program is going in the wrong direction, I get pissed off. Why? Because those statements are opinions that have a negative affect on other fans and potentially recruits that may wander onto our board. There's no sunshine or gold-tinted glasses here. I see the flaws. I see what needs to improve. I've said that.

But, Year 3 isn't a make or break year for this program or for recruiting, it's the couple of years after that. You happened to be the post that got the brunt of my frustration, so I apologize for that. But this year may be good, it may be bad, it may be great. Based on what I saw this year (a year with limited spring practice, no summer, and delayed fall practices, in the middle of a pandemic) we did progress in every aspect of our team. The statistics for the defense may not have been better, but I'd take this year's defense over last year's defense any day. The coaching also looked better to me as well.

These observations are being confirmed by guys who played at GT, confirmed they played at Tech. Opinions I give greater weight than that of myself or another average fan on a message board. So, although I hear and understand what you're saying, I think it's damaging for you and others to continue the diatribe about "hot seats" and "affecting recruiting" in face of evidence to the contrary.

I understand your viewpoint. I think it is a matter of degree of improvement we have made and/or will make. In my mind, I didn't think I was posting anything particularly antagonizing. I realize there are ( many?) people on this board who are more "football smart " than me. Because they have a more informed viewpoint is fine. Like I said , I don't use phrases like " keep drinking the kool aid, or what the hell are YOU smoking ".
I see year three as either a year our progession continues or reaches a ( temporary?) plateau that slows our momentum. The abundant transfers just complicate the situation,
IMO. Sure , we can bring them in, but we can also lose them just as quick. Like in most things NCAA football, the rich will get richer and the mediocre will remain just that. BETTER players transfer because they want more playing time, leading to MORE EXPOSURE, IMO, to get to the next level. Losing teams can offer them the playing time......the exposure not so much.
As a Physical Therapist , I would see patients 2-3 days post-op that had knee replacements. They were in pain, they couldn't move, etc. I told them I understood , BUT there was only a limited window of opportunity to fully rehab ( turnaround) their knee to regain full strength and range of motion. It was imperative that they had to make steady progress from day one , to avoid scar tissue, muscle wasting, etc. If that is not an exact comparison, maybe it makes my point. Today, many people want instant gratification,
especially fair weather fans. CGC generated great excitement, using the word " elite" a lot. People also generally see and hear what they want to see and hear, especially the only casual observer. When this pandemic is over, we need more people in the stands desparately, IMO. We need the vibe about GT to continue and grow. We will not find 55,000 serious observers who can appreciate statistics about improved play. They want to walk out the stadium with a win. We can console ourselves with statistical improvement, but IMO, that will not last past year 3.

 

[ncjacket79]

No one is calling him a genius but to write off his success as well he had good players so he won by default is pretty insulting to his record. The guy who followed him at Texas didn't even have a winning season with his super recruits. The guy who followed him at UNC had 16 wins in three years with his super recruits. 4 less than Mack had in the previous two years.

That’s not what I said, I said he’s a great recruiter and hires very good assistants and lets them coach. But Texas has not recruited as well since he left and he was trending downwards at the time he retired. UNC is recruiting at a higher level now than before he arrived and it’s pretty clear he was refreshed by his time away from the sideline. My whole point though is we always end up talking about how we can only be successful if we have some football genius on the sideline. Mack is proof that isn’t true.

 

[Sheboygan]

That’s not what I said, I said he’s a great recruiter and hires very good assistants and lets them coach. But Texas has not recruited as well since he left and he was trending downwards at the time he retired. UNC is recruiting at a higher level now than before he arrived and it’s pretty clear he was refreshed by his time away from the sideline. My whole point though is we always end up talking about how we can only be successful if we have some football genius on the sideline. Mack is proof that isn’t true.

Experience can teach us two things- not only what we did right, but also what we did wrong. Maybe Mack learned a lot in his time off.

 

[GCdaJuiceMan]

Lol....reading all this I scratch my head...so we are in a rebuild from a staff and system that went to 9 bowls in 11 years and won 7 games its last season that save a fumble against USF could have been 8. And we are hoping to win 4 games this year. With a young team because we choose to play few upper classman.

I'm going to list my projected underclassman starters, you tell me which ones should have upper classman start in their place.

QB: Sims
RB: Gibbs (Really will alternate carries with a healthy Mason. Not sure who gets first snaps.)
TE: We don't have an upper classman TE
OG: Nick Pendley
OT: J. Williams

DT: An underclassman will have to start here, Brooks (think I read he is returning) is our only upper class DT
CB: Zamari Walton

I think we will be playing more upper classman than you believe.

 

[FlatsLander]

I expect GT to go bowling this year. If that doesn’t happen, my guess is that it will be the Defense that isn’t performing and therefore Thacker may need to go. We hopefully filled the holes(heyoooo) at NT and LB and our DE room is stacked. Is CGC actually a DB whisperer????

I agree that there should be no excuses for ****ty play this year. We HAVE TO beat the pay to play also rans, show the Pitts, Duke, BCs, Virginia we are above them and 3 of those 4 if not all. The improvement will be to sneak one out of UNC, Miami or VT. And then hopefully not get embarassed by UGA, Clemson and ND. If we can pick one of those up we are def on track. I think that we played pretty well the first half against ND and them losing Book gives us a chance this year.

We also Need some guys to step up at WR and hopefully we can avoid the injury bug.

The impression I get from CGC and Thacker is that Thacker is very much a protégé of Collins that Collins wants to see trained up, but also leaves a ton of room for Collins to take charge when he wants. I seriously doubt Thacker will ever be fired.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

What I hate is when fans start tearing down their school and the program.

I agree that it is going to take a couple more years to fully assess whether or not CGC is the right guy to lead our program, but this sentence is a reach. Most of the anti -CGC guys are neither tearing down the school nor the program, but rather tearing down the current regime. While I, like you, think that's foolish, it's their right as fans to have those opinions.

 

[Coloradojacket]

I'm going to list my projected underclassman starters, you tell me which ones should have upper classman start in their place.

QB: Sims
RB: Gibbs (Really will alternate carries with a healthy Mason. Not sure who gets first snaps.)
TE: We don't have an upper classman TE
OG: Nick Pendley
OT: J. Williams

DT: An underclassman will have to start here, Brooks (think I read he is returning) is our only upper class DT
CB: Zamari Walton

I think we will be playing more upper classman than you believe.

I was just quoting a post that stated we are a young team so don't expect much.....

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

But Texas has not recruited as well since he left

You need to check your facts. They were 4th in both 2018 and 2019 and have generally been top 15 almost every other year.

 

[GoldZ]

I’ll just say this. You can be athletically challenged and still look like a well coached team.

This--This--This!!! POTT! Which is exactly what I am looking for mid-Oct to Nov 2021. 5th year as a HC and this is what will tell us that good days are ahead, or we are in deep caca, even with top 25 recruiting classes.

 

[GoldZ]

I was just quoting a post that stated we are a young team so don't expect much.....

We say this a LOT. How "young" will we be come November of next year after 8 games or so.

 

[Sheboygan]

This--This--This!!! POTT! Which is exactly what I am looking for mid-Oct to Nov 2021. 5th year as a HC and this is what will tell us that good days are ahead, or we are in deep caca, even with top 25 recruiting classes.

YES !!!!

 

[forensicbuzz]

I agree that it is going to take a couple more years to fully assess whether or not CGC is the right guy to lead our program, but this sentence is a reach. Most of the anti -CGC guys are neither tearing down the school nor the program, but rather tearing down the current regime. While I, like you, think that's foolish, it's their right as fans to have those opinions.

You can differentiate tearing down a coaching staff without it being an indictment of the program? You're a better man than me. It's all part and parcel to me, at least when it's premature (in my opinion).

 

[forensicbuzz]

I understand your viewpoint. I think it is a matter of degree of improvement we have made and/or will make. In my mind, I didn't think I was posting anything particularly antagonizing. I realize there are ( many?) people on this board who are more "football smart " than me. Because they have a more informed viewpoint is fine. Like I said , I don't use phrases like " keep drinking the kool aid, or what the hell are YOU smoking ".
I see year three as either a year our progession continues or reaches a ( temporary?) plateau that slows our momentum. The abundant transfers just complicate the situation,
IMO. Sure , we can bring them in, but we can also lose them just as quick. Like in most things NCAA football, the rich will get richer and the mediocre will remain just that. BETTER players transfer because they want more playing time, leading to MORE EXPOSURE, IMO, to get to the next level. Losing teams can offer them the playing time......the exposure not so much.
As a Physical Therapist , I would see patients 2-3 days post-op that had knee replacements. They were in pain, they couldn't move, etc. I told them I understood , BUT there was only a limited window of opportunity to fully rehab ( turnaround) their knee to regain full strength and range of motion. It was imperative that they had to make steady progress from day one , to avoid scar tissue, muscle wasting, etc. If that is not an exact comparison, maybe it makes my point. Today, many people want instant gratification,
especially fair weather fans. CGC generated great excitement, using the word " elite" a lot. People also generally see and hear what they want to see and hear, especially the only casual observer. When this pandemic is over, we need more people in the stands desparately, IMO. We need the vibe about GT to continue and grow. We will not find 55,000 serious observers who can appreciate statistics about improved play. They want to walk out the stadium with a win. We can console ourselves with statistical improvement, but IMO, that will not last past year 3.

I have no problem with any of this. Year 3 needs to show steady improvement, but I expect the big jumps need to come in Year 4 and 5. If this is going to stick, we need to be challenging for the Coastal in Year 4 and a contender for ACCCG in Year 5 to maintain his momentum. I think that is reachable and within the current trajectory.

 

[forensicbuzz]

I agree that it is going to take a couple more years to fully assess whether or not CGC is the right guy to lead our program, but this sentence is a reach. Most of the anti -CGC guys are neither tearing down the school nor the program, but rather tearing down the current regime. While I, like you, think that's foolish, it's their right as fans to have those opinions.

I agree, as fans, we have the right to voice any opinion we want and to say anything about our team, the coaches, the program, the AA, etc. But, in the same vane, I reserve the right to criticize them for it. Maybe I chose the wrong specific post to react to, but it just happened to be the final straw. My reaction may have been overboard for what @Sheboygan actually said, but it just enough to hit a raw nerve and I'm just in a really feisty mood lately. Normally I just let it roll like water (at least some of the times).

 

[GCdaJuiceMan]

I was just quoting a post that stated we are a young team so don't expect much....

I must have taken your quote "we choose to play few upper classman." too literal then. My apologies. Didn't make sense to me.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

Look at his rosters and where he finished. I’m not saying he’s terrible but he is no genius. Talent and assistant coaches is a successful formula. People here are obsessed with this idea that a coach has to be some kind of savant. It doesn’t need to be that way. Plus name someone who recruits like Mack who hasn’t had his level of success.

Well, Ron Zook at Florida recruited even better players and somehow managed to get beat at Mississippi State with their players dancing to "Who Let the Dogs Out". Urban Meyer took most of Zook's players and won a national championship with them. Randy Shannon and Al Golden at Miami had their share of recruiting success but fell short in the win column. Just about every coach at Tennessee for the past ten years has had plenty of talent but struggled to beat UGA, Alabama, or Florida. For the past twenty years Virginia Tech has had some recruiting success but nothing in the infamous trophy case. UGA has been in the top 5 in recruiting forever but its been 40 years since they had a national championship. Recruiting is the foundation for any successful college program but it is only the first step.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

You can differentiate tearing down a coaching staff without it being an indictment of the program? You're a better man than me. It's all part and parcel to me, at least when it's premature (in my opinion).

I sure hope so, because the previous regime had it's fair share of detractors who are now supporters. You can support a program and disagree with the direction it is headed.

 

[RonJohn]

You can differentiate tearing down a coaching staff without it being an indictment of the program? You're a better man than me. It's all part and parcel to me, at least when it's premature (in my opinion).

I think it is a matter of extreme opinions. Some say that the staff doesn't know what they are doing and is doing everything wrong. Some say that the staff hasn't made any mistakes or had any issues whatsoever. Instead of looking at what the staff does well and what they need to be better at, people argue the extremes and discount anything that even hints at weakness in their extreme argument. It should be possible to have a discussion about what the staff does well and what the staff needs to do better at without ending up in a heated argument about who is anti-this or pro-that. Unfortunately in the current climate noone is willing to discuss reality because admitting that the coaches do some things well, or that the coaches make some mistakes gives some credence to the other side.

 

[GoldZ]

I think it is a matter of extreme opinions. Some say that the staff doesn't know what they are doing and is doing everything wrong. Some say that the staff hasn't made any mistakes or had any issues whatsoever. Instead of looking at what the staff does well and what they need to be better at, people argue the extremes and discount anything that even hints at weakness in their extreme argument. It should be possible to have a discussion about what the staff does well and what the staff needs to do better at without ending up in a heated argument about who is anti-this or pro-that. Unfortunately in the current climate noone is willing to discuss reality because admitting that the coaches do some things well, or that the coaches make some mistakes gives some credence to the other side.

D.C. all over again.