Disappointment

[armeck]

With all this talk of how GT can't compete on any level - can't pay for top tier coaches, academics restrict recruits, etc. - why should this school remain in a P5 conference? Not trolling, but an honest question I've had for a few years now. All I ever hear is how the school is woefully unable to keep up with UGA, Clemson, etc. These excuses run deep into topics that simply will not change (academic rigor, low funding from boosters, et al.) - so I ask the thought experiment question: Why stay?

 

[RonJohn]

With all this talk of how GT can't compete on any level - can't pay for top tier coaches, academics restrict recruits, etc. - why should this school remain in a P5 conference? Not trolling, but an honest question I've had for a few years now. All I ever hear is how the school is woefully unable to keep up with UGA, Clemson, etc. These excuses run deep into topics that simply will not change (academic rigor, low funding from boosters, et al.) - so I ask the thought experiment question: Why stay?

How many football teams can keep up with UGA and Clemson? Alabama, Ohio State, Oklahoma .... Who else? Penn State/Auburn? Every few years, but then every few years not. Should P5 be reduced to only 5 teams who play a season to see which one gets excluded from the playoffs?

Why is Kansas in a P5 conference? Why is Vanderbilt in a P5 conference? Why was Washington State in a P5 conference? They didn't have a winning season from 2004 through 2014. Eleven years with a losing record. GT has had 2 regular seasons under .500 in the last 22 years.

Does GT have financial issues that are an impediment to competing with factories? Yes. Does GT have academic issues that are an impediment to competing with factories? Yes. Does GT have a smaller, grumpy fan base that are an impediment to competing with factories? Yes. But, GT has not been in the cellar of P5 or FBS football. In fact, five years ago during a time when the AD at GT was trying to force the head coach out, and by reports restricting funding to the football program, GT ended up in the top 10.

I would turn you question around and ask: Since GT hasn't been in the cellar of the P5 and at times is very competitive with the top teams, why should leaving even be considered?

 

[smokey_wasp]

With all this talk of how GT can't compete on any level - can't pay for top tier coaches, academics restrict recruits, etc. - why should this school remain in a P5 conference? Not trolling, but an honest question I've had for a few years now. All I ever hear is how the school is woefully unable to keep up with UGA, Clemson, etc. These excuses run deep into topics that simply will not change (academic rigor, low funding from boosters, et al.) - so I ask the thought experiment question: Why stay?

We've been to a bowl game 20 out of the last 22 years. We've been ranked in the top twenty-five 8 of the last 22 years. We have outstanding tradition and a more recent national championship than uga and many others. We currently have a top 25 recruiting class. We can absolutely compete. We should stop complaining, rather than stop competing.

 

[armeck]

"We can absolutely compete. We should stop complaining, rather than stop competing. "

Bingo. That's what I was hoping to read...

 

[stech81]

We've been to a bowl game 20 out of the last 22 years. We've been ranked in the top twenty-five 8 of the last 22 years. We have outstanding tradition and a more recent national championship than uga and many others. We currently have a top 25 recruiting class. We can absolutely compete. We should stop complaining, rather than stop competing.

Agree but lets wait till signing day to say anything about recruiting still too early some will not sign some we don't know about will.

 

[Scubapro]

"We can absolutely compete. We should stop complaining, rather than stop competing. "

Bingo. That's what I was hoping to read...

We can but not on a consistent basis and not without great game day coaching

 

[gthxxxx]

What makes you think there isn’t?

There's only so much time and energy available and not much overlap between the two efforts.

 

[jgtengineer]

What makes you think there isn’t?

History. We have had one class of 4 star talent (top loaded) nfl talent and one retroactive 5 star. Some of the NFL talent there also being not as highly rated. STH degrees are helping us a little with this because that can be spun as a comm or type of education major even though it isn't. Roddy's really helping us out with his success in broadcasting. But the truth is that most people don't even want to go to school for business (silly if i were planning to be a professional athlete that is exactly the major i'd want) and calculus scares people even though it shouldn't. (we should be teaching calculus in 10th grade. but we have to reteach algebra and stuff because schools suck).

Johnson could get by with less talent and still win some games, spike when he had age or nfl talent at a few key positions and have a good season. Running what we want to run now you really need it at all positions. I am just not sure we can recruit that way with our limitations.

Give us a legit education degree though? Or some form of BS in excercise science? Hell yeah we could.

 

[year_of_the_swarm]

I think you are seeing why Paul decided it was time to close the store. I think he knew we were in for a tough season based on who he had left on the roster and the overall surround of the situation. He might have got 2 or 3 wins out of this team but even Heisman would have suffered a losing season with this edition of the Yellow Jackets! We just have to try and make the most out of a bad situation and know the sun will come up tomorrow (at least for most of us).

Go Jackets!

I don't believe that for a second... Put Jahaziel Lee and Parker Braun back on the offensive line, and the offensive line is VERY good for an option attack... Tobias Oliver is an excellent option quarterback, so he was set at the most important position on the field. Then he would have had Kirvonte Benson and Jordan Mason starring at BB... Dontae Smith and Nate Cottrell working the pitch game.. The defense is significantly improved this year, so that tells me the talent was there to be adequate on defense.

CPJ didn't hang it up because he saw it going down... he had a good team lined up for this year. I thought they would win 9 or 10 games even.. The Coastal is down... and GT would have had a lot of experience and explosive players like Oliver, Benson, Mason, etc. Cottrell was really good at AB, and Dontae Smith is a good player as well. I think you would have seen Oliver run for 1,500 yards this year, and Benson go over 1,000 as well. The offensive line was actually really experienced, but they are adjusting to a new system this year... and Lee got moved to defense, and Braun transferred. Neither of those would have happened with CPJ.

Hopefully since I posted that in response to someone else, the mods won't delete it. Basically any references I make like this keep getting deleted by the mods.

 

[jgtengineer]

I don't believe that for a second... Put Jahaziel Lee and Parker Braun back on the offensive line, and the offensive line is VERY good for an option attack... Tobias Oliver is an excellent option quarterback, so he was set at the most important position on the field. Then he would have had Kirvonte Benson and Jordan Mason starring at BB... Dontae Smith and Nate Cottrell working the pitch game.. The defense is significantly improved this year, so that tells me the talent was there to be adequate on defense.

CPJ didn't hang it up because he saw it going down... he had a good team lined up for this year. I thought they would win 9 or 10 games even.. The Coastal is down... and GT would have had a lot of experience and explosive players like Oliver, Benson, Mason, etc. Cottrell was really good at AB, and Dontae Smith is a good player as well. I think you would have seen Oliver run for 1,500 yards this year, and Benson go over 1,000 as well. The offensive line was actually really experienced, but they are adjusting to a new system this year... and Lee got moved to defense, and Braun transferred. Neither of those would have happened with CPJ.

Hopefully since I posted that in response to someone else, the mods won't delete it. Basically any references I make like this keep getting deleted by the mods.

Parker might have been leaving anyway as he wanted an education master

 

[bobongo]

We've been to a bowl game 20 out of the last 22 years. We've been ranked in the top twenty-five 8 of the last 22 years. We have outstanding tradition and a more recent national championship than uga and many others. We currently have a top 25 recruiting class. We can absolutely compete. We should stop complaining, rather than stop competing.

Yeah, we need to quit the and calm down. Tomorrow is another day.

 

[slugboy]

I don't believe that for a second... Put Jahaziel Lee and Parker Braun back on the offensive line, and the offensive line is VERY good for an option attack... Tobias Oliver is an excellent option quarterback, so he was set at the most important position on the field. Then he would have had Kirvonte Benson and Jordan Mason starring at BB... Dontae Smith and Nate Cottrell working the pitch game.. The defense is significantly improved this year, so that tells me the talent was there to be adequate on defense.

CPJ didn't hang it up because he saw it going down... he had a good team lined up for this year. I thought they would win 9 or 10 games even.. The Coastal is down... and GT would have had a lot of experience and explosive players like Oliver, Benson, Mason, etc. Cottrell was really good at AB, and Dontae Smith is a good player as well. I think you would have seen Oliver run for 1,500 yards this year, and Benson go over 1,000 as well. The offensive line was actually really experienced, but they are adjusting to a new system this year... and Lee got moved to defense, and Braun transferred. Neither of those would have happened with CPJ.

Hopefully since I posted that in response to someone else, the mods won't delete it. Basically any references I make like this keep getting deleted by the mods.

If you put Parker Braun on our current offensive line, it’s a lot better. If Lee isn’t injured, we’re better off in general, either offensive or defensive line. If Kenny Cooper isn’t injured, our offensive line is better off. If Kirvonte Benson doesn’t get injured last year, we’re better last season (and probably win USF and other games), and this season. He’s not playing anywhere right now.

Lee got moved to DT because that’s his natural position, and the one he wanted to play.

Braun graduated. His father said he was going to transfer anyway. Johnson retiring was not the reason he transferred, and it wasn’t going to be the reason he stayed. He said it was not a referendum on the coaching before or after. Here’s the post where his father said that he was transferring because it was the best move personally for him, and had nothing to do with Collins coming in or Johnson leaving: Braun to Texas
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/to...-to-Texas.17736/&share_type=t&link_source=app






Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[ibeattetris]

My problem with the "juice", the money down, the dancing, in fact all the gimmickry is that it needs to be done when you have done something...like maybe winning a few games...then dance away with the juice and monopoly money flowing.

Yes yes yes.

Dancing during the 2009 VT game was epic.

Dancing during the Citadel was pathetic.

Context and circumstances matter.

 

[AE 87]

With all this talk of how GT can't compete on any level - can't pay for top tier coaches, academics restrict recruits, etc. - why should this school remain in a P5 conference? Not trolling, but an honest question I've had for a few years now. All I ever hear is how the school is woefully unable to keep up with UGA, Clemson, etc. These excuses run deep into topics that simply will not change (academic rigor, low funding from boosters, et al.) - so I ask the thought experiment question: Why stay?

Later you said:

"We can absolutely compete. We should stop complaining, rather than stop competing. "

Bingo. That's what I was hoping to read...

Your first post seems to be in response to my post where I said, "... Also, it involves the suspicion that we can't afford top dollar HC, DC, & OC nor will we be able to out recruit ACC competition."
Notice that it doesn't say that we can't compete at this level but "the suspicion that we can't afford." So, your follow-up post in support of the line "We can absolutely compete" comes off to me like, "Err, just do it."

Fwiw, Dabo's salary is 8.25 million and his staff's salaries total 7.4 million. CGC's salary is 3 million and his staff's salaries total 3.2 million. Your "Errrrr, just do it" as a response to being able to compete in salaries is immature, imo. My comment was based on the real world of where our budget is now, not in your, "Errrr, just do it" fantasy world.

Moreover, your post completely took my reference to affording top dollar coaches out of context. Immediately before my statement which I just quoted, I had said, "Rather, it's a concern that we need top gameday coaching to regularly compete." In other words, I'm not saying that we can't compete, but I'm saying that what I think it takes to compete would be coaches who can get more out of their team on game day than the prognosticators looking at the roster would predict.

Now, I hope you appreciate that I tried to take your posts with as much respect as you took mine.

 

[armeck]

Later you said:


Your first post seems to be in response to my post where I said, "... Also, it involves the suspicion that we can't afford top dollar HC, DC, & OC nor will we be able to out recruit ACC competition."
Notice that it doesn't say that we can't compete at this level but "the suspicion that we can't afford." So, your follow-up post in support of the line "We can absolutely compete" comes off to me like, "Err, just do it."

Fwiw, Dabo's salary is 8.25 million and his staff's salaries total 7.4 million. CGC's salary is 3 million and his staff's salaries total 3.2 million. Your "Errrrr, just do it" as a response to being able to compete in salaries is immature, imo. My comment was based on the real world of where our budget is now, not in your, "Errrr, just do it" fantasy world.

Moreover, your post completely took my reference to affording top dollar coaches out of context. Immediately before my statement which I just quoted, I had said, "Rather, it's a concern that we need top gameday coaching to regularly compete." In other words, I'm not saying that we can't compete, but I'm saying that what I think it takes to compete would be coaches who can get more out of their team on game day than the prognosticators looking at the roster would predict.

Now, I hope you appreciate that I tried to take your posts with as much respect as you took mine.

Dabo made $800,000 his first year at Clemson and they were the bottom of the ACC when he took over. No idea why you are comparing Collins' Year 1 salary to Dabo's Year 5 (or 7 or 9, I don't really know) salary.

Swinney's first head coaching contract in 2009 at Clemson paid him $800,000 a year — the lowest salary in the Atlantic Coast Conference. He went 15-12 his first two full seasons, including his only losing season at 6-7 in 2010.

Swinney is 97-15 since then, making the past four college football playoffs — Clemson's only miss was the inaugural edition after the 2014 season — and won two national titles, both over Alabama.​

 

[RickStromFan]

We've been to a bowl game 20 out of the last 22 years. We've been ranked in the top twenty-five 8 of the last 22 years. We have outstanding tradition and a more recent national championship than uga and many others. We currently have a top 25 recruiting class. We can absolutely compete. We should stop complaining, rather than stop competing.

and stop making excuses when we aren't competing at a level we know we're capable of.

 

[Boaty1]

I don't understand what point you are making. Is the ONLY scheme available to neutralize a talent deficit is the TO? Are you saying that ONLY CPJ can succeed at GT? Every other offense is basically the same.

This is a defining moment for GT. We tried a scheme-based solution to reduce the impact of our academic rigor on recruiting. It was somewhat successful but was trending flat or declining.

Now we have a scheme more attractive to recruits and a relentless recruiter extolling the merits of coming to GT. If this new approach fails, what approach can be taken then? I'm pulling for CGC to succeed. If he doesn't, I think it will mean we cannot play FBS football AND have academic standards that don't appeal to enough 4- and 5-star players in today's college football environment.

I don’t think a failed Collins regime will mean anything other than Collins failed. As long as he proves he can recruit to GT then honestly the record will have zero impact on my opinion of the ceiling of GT football. I heard Luginbill say earlier in the year that there is no reason we can’t compete for the 4th spot in the ACC recruiting rankings annually. I think that’s about right and I see no reason with a competent recruiter we should finish in the bottom third.

All too often GT fans are looking for reasons why we can’t compete instead of reasons we can. I’m frustrated because people don’t understand what 11 years of option football has done to our program. The further we get away from it from a time perspective the better.

 

[ibeattetris]

I heard Luginbill say earlier in the year that there is no reason we can’t compete for the 4th spot in the ACC recruiting rankings annually.

Having an AD who refused to allow our coach more than 2 recruiting staff while our competitors were in the double digits is a pretty solid reason. TStan is going to be responsible for an improvement in our recruiting more than CGC is, because our previous AD was a joke who was crippling our program.

 

[jackets55]

Bryce Gowdy is one. See the featured article on the front page. I have seen similar sentiments from Ryan King and Miles Brooks, but I can't point you directly to them. This year's results have not been a part of the sales pitch to 2020 recruits, naturally. Culture change, hope for the future, and being part of building something special from the ground up have been. Wins never hurt, of course, but most didn't expect many.

First, thanks for responding. Most people just throw statements around and rarely have anything other than anecdotal data. I read Gowdy's info and see where he hopes to contribute early. I will assume "on the rise" are your words not his. I couldn't find any info on the other two.

2nd, its nice that Gowdy has confidence and I assume talent, but I don't think he will make a huge impact NEXT year, most likely 2021 forward.

 

[Boaty1]

Having an AD who refused to allow our coach more than 2 recruiting staff while our competitors were in the double digits is a pretty solid reason. TStan is going to be responsible for an improvement in our recruiting more than CGC is, because our previous AD was a joke who was crippling our program.

We just simply disagree here. There has been a lot written on our big money boosters not supporting the program in the same way they did prior to Johnson and the way they have done since Collins took over. It wasn’t done out of any hatred of Johnson but rather a belief that Johnson couldn’t capitalize on the contribution. It didn’t matter how much of a budget we had there was an extremely low ceiling on our recruiting due to the triple.