CPJ Tweet

[Ibeeballin]

Again Ibe you are arguing a different point. I already conceded that I was not clear that I was focusing specifically on his qualifications as a defense minded head coach. I will stand by and say he benefitted from some great complimentary football with prescott at msu, and stepped into a mess of talent at florida. But in 2017 temple lost 3 people due to the draft. 2 were defensive a CB and a linebacker. They did lose seniors from the defense but depth and spacing wasn't bad if this ATL chart is relevant (we know ours weren't always)

Temple Releases "Above the Line" Chart for Notre Dame Game

On Monday, Owls fans got the first glimpse of players who will suit up in the Cherry and White on Saturday when the team heads to South Bend to take on Notre Dame.

247sports.com

So maybe it was a talent gap that was responsible but I think that speaks to what I said that Collins doesn't seem to be able to account for a talent gap with scheme. And his proclivity for up tempo offenses exposes defensive breakdowns even more. Its far to easy to have a snowball effect happen when your offense is going 3 and out in 23 seconds and a tired defense is back on the field.

lol ok

 

[Pointer]

Well, it’s both. The selective reasoning is also hilarious! Guys were on here complaining about the OL in 17, &18 about both the talent and recruiting numbers. We took 0 in 19 due to being late recruiting. How could anyone not say it’s talent too? We have been relying on William Lay to play of lot snaps as our center and forced to play Quinney at LT. We’re debating the indefensible

That's your opinion regarding talent, I don't mean that as an insult, but it's your opinion and doesn't make it fact. And I respect your opinion, just not sold on that being true.

The fact is that there was difficulty in going from being an o-lineman from 3o to a pass pro o-lineman.

 

[jacketup]

Well, it’s both. The selective reasoning is also hilarious! Guys were on here complaining about the OL in 17, &18 about both the talent and recruiting numbers. We took 0 in 19 due to being late recruiting. How could anyone not say it’s talent too? We have been relying on William Lay to play of lot snaps as our center and forced to play Quinney at LT. We’re debating the indefensible

You may as well give it up. You are arguing with people who don't know much about college football and know even less about what it takes to run a P5 football program. You are trying to educate people who don't have enough basic knowledge to understand what you are saying. It's like trying to teach calculus to someone who just learned multiplication tables.

 

[kg01]

You may as well give it up. You are arguing with people who don't know much about college football and know even less about what it takes to run a P5 football program. You are trying to educate people who don't have enough basic knowledge to understand what you are saying. It's like trying to teach calculus to someone who just learned multiplication tables.

While I won't question folks' football knowledge, I can say it does appear a lotta folks lack some level of understanding especially in the area of what it takes to run a P5 program. This isn't a video game, you don't just change horses after a short period of time.

See, I add "appear" so no one can say I outright defamed them.

 

[Ibeeballin]

That's your opinion regarding talent, I don't mean that as an insult, but it's your opinion and doesn't make it fact. And I respect your opinion, just not sold on that being true.

The fact is that there was difficulty in going from being an o-lineman from 3o to a pass pro o-lineman.

So explain your position on why talent wasn’t the issue whether it’s the eye test or recruiting services?

 

[Pointer]

That wasn’t the question.

Let me start by saying recruiting matters and is very important, but I think recruiting rankings get blown out of proportion.

I say this because we can't discredit someone as a coach or coordinator because they had highly recruited ranked classes. I think most of us can agree that Collins knows his stuff regarding defenses and to say he is not as good as the results because he had highly rated players is not a good arguement.

 

[A Love Supreme]

That wasn’t the question.

Ok but what is the answer? What has Collins shown you as the head coach at Temple and GT that he is a good head coach? Because it can't be his record.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Definitely a risky hire considering he is unproven as a head coach. It seems to me some people on this message board just like Collins because he's not Paul Johnson and doesn't run a "high school offense." It certainly can't be because of his actual record as a head coach.

Was he anymore unproven than than O’Leary, Gailey, or CPJ?

 

[Pointer]

So explain your position on why talent wasn’t the issue whether it’s the eye test or recruiting services?

I've already done that many times in the past and posted a long listing based on research from recruiting sites regarding similar rated offensive linemen and their results compared to ours going player by player.

 

[Pointer]

Was he anymore unproven than than O’Leary, Gailey, or CPJ?

Now you're reaching

 

[Ibeeballin]

Ok but what is the answer? What has Collins shown you as the head coach at Temple and GT that he is a good head coach? Because it can't be his record.

1) His eye for talent
2) His ability to acquire talent
3) His ability to develop players
4) Media relations
5) His knowledge base of GT and also to play the game like factory
6) His ability crowdfund from alums

 

[A Love Supreme]

Was he anymore unproven than than O’Leary, Gailey, or CPJ?

Yes. CPJ won 2 National Championships at Georgia Southern and he completely turned the Navy program around.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Now you're reaching

No I’m not.

What was O’Leary HC record before coming the coach?

Gailey was enthralled in the NFL with only HC at D2/1AA HC experienced coming into probation situation.

CPJ offense was 1 of 1 in P5. GT and the country was well aware of the risk that style here.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Yes. CPJ won 2 National Championships at Georgia Southern and he completely turned the Navy program around.

Neither of which are P5 programs. As you guys use to say, his offense allowed lesser talent to thrive. GaSo was Bama at that level

 

[Ibeeballin]

I've already done that many times in the past and posted a long listing based on research from recruiting sites regarding similar rated offensive linemen and their results compared to ours going player by player.

So have I, so do it again. It’s called a circular argument for a reason lol

 

[stech81]

If anyone is interested my wife actually cooked lunch today , although I'm not sure what it was. But we have only been married 48 years so maybe she ain't have time to learn. But I could hire her a good cook coordinator. A good coordinator can make anyone look better.

 

[jgtengineer]

Was he anymore unproven than than O’Leary, Gailey, or CPJ?

O'leary had a NC as a DC at our school and was brought back to attempt to fix the L**** dumpster fire, Gailey had a pretty accomplished nfl career before we picked him up. And as a head coach he lead Dallas to 2 playoff births, but didn't win them and everyone figured he'd probably be a pretty good coach with a good prostyle offense. We learned that he didn't quite get the college game and recruiting until late in the game. CPJ well... At the FCS level he won championships. At the FBS level he built a service academy into something that needed to be taken seriously and then we hired him and he took the talent he had available and won the ACC in 2 years. CPJ had been a proven head coach for almost 10 years before we hired him.

Collins well he won the SEC east Twice. But only had a 2 year career as a head coach.

 

[Pointer]

So have I, so do it again. It’s called a circular argument for a reason lol

First I'll start with I completely agree that attrition is a legitimate reason for struggles along the LOS. Last year was even more valid on both lines, but especially on O-line. This year, we have the bug especially on D-line, but in my opinion this reason/excuse hold less water because most other teams are struggling with attrition (this year) as well. Year one, our attrition was well above average compared to other teams, this year, I'm not so sure.

Kicker, to me, is rarely a coaching issue, and I think we agree here.

I will say I expected more from our DB's specifically due to the fact they are directly coaches by Collins and were rated fairly highly for GT standards as far as recruits. Again there were outside issues one being riq two weeks off of having casts on both hands before the first game.

Where I disagree, however, is the power 5 offer arguement on offensive line. Firstly, GT has never been a dominant recruiting school, and certainly not on LOS. I'm not sure if you or others expected to have a stable of sought after linemen as the requirement for a new coach to come in and be competitive right away. Is this the requirement?
Second, looking at a team that is well thought of in regards to offensive line, but recruits closer to our level, things get interesting. Boston college has been considered one of the highest output of NFL offensive linemen. I looked though their recruits offers on offensive line back through 2016 and it's really not much different from what we have here (I stopped at 2016 because that is what the new coach is working with this season and he seems to be doing just fine with it, also it's a ton of work doing this on my phone). Including the transfers this and last year for us on offensive line, it's pretty much the same as far as P5 offers goes.

Looking at their offensive line recruits starting 2019 and back:

2019


Jack Conley offers:
Arizona State
Buffalo
Fordham
Indiana


Blerim Rustemi offers:
Army
Buffalo
Connecticut
East Carolina


Christian Mahogany offers:
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Buffalo
Central Michigan

2018


Finn Dirstine Offers:
Colorado state
Dartmouth
Illinois
Massachusetts


Thomas Shelmore offers:
Army
Colorado state
Fordham
Navy


Tyler Vrabel offers:
Cincinnati
Houston
Ohio (not OSU)
Memphis

2017


Ben Peteula offers: (this one has P5 offers)
South Carolina
North Carolina
Rutgers
Kentucky


Alex Lindstrom offers:
Massachusetts
Kansas

Nathaniel Emer, Iroquois Senior , Offensive Tackle

Nathaniel Emer is a 6-4.5, 232-pound Offensive Tackle from Elma, NY.

247sports.com

Nathaniel Emer offers:
Seems like BC was his only offer, another 2 star recruit.

2016

Sean Ragan, St. John's Prep , Offensive Guard

Sean Ragan is a 6-4, 281-pound Offensive Guard from Danvers, MA. He has committed to Boston College Eagles.

247sports.com

Sean Eagan offers: (decent list)
Miami
Connecticut
Maryland
Penn State

Tom Kowalkoski, Catholic Central , Offensive Tackle

Tom Kowalkowski is a 6-5, 275-pound Offensive Tackle from Novi, MI.

247sports.com

Tom Kowalkoski offers:
Cincinnati
Miami (Ohio)
Ball State
Toledo

To me the P5 offers thing on offensive line really doesn't hold much water.

 

[Pointer]

Neither of which are P5 programs. As you guys use to say, his offense allowed lesser talent to thrive. GaSo was Bama at that level

You keep adding requirements to your questions after you ask them.

Regardless, CCG and CPJ were much more proven coming in here than Collins. That's not some offensive controversial statement. It also doesn't say Collins won't succeed here.

 

[forensicbuzz]

All this talk about Collins as DC at the factory schools but you still haven't explained how he is a good head coach.

He's our coach. So, let's stop pissing on him and let him do his job. I get you are highly skeptical about whether he has the chops to do this job or not. Why not wait until he has his kids in as upperclassmen and the system fully installed? If we are still losing in Year 4 he should be criticized. Until then, you're just dragging the program down.