CPJ Tweet

[JacketOff]

@GTRanj2
I’ve already disproven your theory with BC’s OL offers. You only took the top 4 schools which are either in alphabetical order, or a recruit’s top choices. Most of the players you highlighted have plenty of P5 offers that you ignored.

 

[Ibeeballin]

You keep adding requirements to your questions after you ask them.

Regardless, CCG and CPJ were much more proven coming in here than Collins. That's not some offensive controversial statement. It also doesn't say Collins won't succeed here.

No the question was in regard to risk.

 

[Ibeeballin]

@GTRanj2
I’ve already disproven your theory with BC’s OL offers. You only took the top 4 schools which are either in alphabetical order, or a recruit’s top choices. Most of the players you highlighted have plenty of P5 offers that you ignored.

Im glad you responded bc i didn’t see the correlation either to what we fielded

Football talent is defined by having features and abilities in different situations. @GTRanj2 BC example counters his point. The features of those guys is a lot different than what CGC inherited in 2019 and what he had in the 2 deep in 2020. Also, the transition exposed the OL talent abilities in different situations whether it was Minihan ability to snap, Quinney lack of foot speed, Lay being over powered or Mike Maye & Austin Smith ability to not get on the field. To say OL talent was not part of the issue is asinine!

 

[Pointer]

@GTRanj2
I’ve already disproven your theory with BC’s OL offers. You only took the top 4 schools which are either in alphabetical order, or a recruit’s top choices. Most of the players you highlighted have plenty of P5 offers that you ignored.

That's debatable. Most of them put their choices in their top preference and we already discussed this part as well. Why not list p5 offers if you got them?

You didn't disprove as you claimed.

 

[Pointer]

Im glad you responded bc i didn’t see the correlation either to what we fielded

Football talent is defined by having features and abilities in different situations. @GTRanj2 BC example counters his point. The features of those guys is a lot different than what CGC inherited in 2019 and what he had in the 2 deep in 2020. Also, the transition exposed the OL talent abilities in different situations whether it was Minihan ability to snap, Quinney lack of foot speed, Lay being over powered or Mike Maye & Austin Smith ability to not get on the field. To say OL talent was not part of the issue is asinine!

Ah there you go. Someone gives you the evidence you're always asking for then you go and change the original question again so that you seem correct.

Btw the guys cgc inherited were of the standard height of cfb non 3o teams and by the start of the season they were also well in the average weight department (since the old offense required faster linemen).

So then you go on to discuss debatable things such as "foot speed" like someone is on the field with a radar gun pointed at individual players feet and updating their foot speed stat on espn profile pages later. This again is your opinion, doesn't make it true.


It's ok to concede sometimes. I have with regards to CGC's recruiting ability and I've even noted an improvement in o line play from year one (though again I argue it was not a one sided thing such as talent issues).

 

[A Love Supreme]

1) His eye for talent
2) His ability to acquire talent
3) His ability to develop players
4) Media relations
5) His knowledge base of GT and also to play the game like factory
6) His ability crowdfund from alums

That's all you got? None of those things has translated to actual significant wins on the field. 5 of those things have to do with recruiting. You are basing him being a good coach with recruiting/promoting rather than actual coaching.

 

[Pointer]

Just to clarify how you didn't "disprove"

@GTRanj2
I’ve already disproven your theory with BC’s OL offers. You only took the top 4 schools which are either in alphabetical order, or a recruit’s top choices. Most of the players you highlighted have plenty of P5 offers that you ignored.

You missed a lot of offers for a lot of guys.

Christian Mahogany had offers from Syracuse, Vanderbilt, Virginia, and even though they aren’t a P5, a respectable Cincinnati team.

Jack Conley had offers Rutgers, Syracuse, and Virginia.

Blerim Rustemi had offers from Rutgers and Virginia

Finn Dirstine had offers from Miami and Syracuse

Those are just the ones I bothered to check. There’s absolutely a difference between that and the guys Collins inherited.

Zach Quinney had an offer list similar to those BC guys.

Kenney Cooper had 2 offers: Georgia Tech and Western Kentucky

Mikey Minihan had no other P5 offers.

Charlie Clark had no other P5 offers.

Michael Maye had 2 offers: Georgia Tech and South Alabama.

Austin Smith had a solid offer list, comparable to the BC guys, but has barely contributed at Tech.

Those are all of the scholarship OL that were ATL against FSU this year. Only 2 of the 6 had other P5 offers, compared to BC, who basically all have other P5 offers. It’s not even the same ballpark.

Where's your source? I admit I didn't go to every recruiting site, but I used the universally accepted one 247 and provided links. If you go to the 247 sheet it shows the offers as I posted.

Edit:
Since you brought up ATL, BC's starting O-Line:
Zion Johnson (non P5)
Christian Mahagony
Alec Lindstrom
Ben Petrula
Tyler Vrabel

Again this is not much different from what we have.

The source is 247 lol. You just took the top 4 listed, which are generally listed in alphabetical order unless the player manually goes in a lists his “top interests.”

Zion Johnson was a transfer from Davidson, equivalent to Keion White.

Mahogany and Petrula both had numerous P5 offers.

Lindstrom and Vrabel didn’t have P5 offers, but Vrabel has offers from Cincinnati, Memphis, and Houston, 3 of the top G5 programs. Compared to somebody like Minihan who had offers from service academies, Idaho, San Jose State, and UNLV. Or Charlie Clark who’s best 3 G5 offers were Georgia Southern, Tulane, and FAU, that’s still a big difference.

Plus, the guys with P5 offers are still there to provide depth. In 2019 Tech had 4 OL total with other P5 offers: Jared Southers, Jack Defoor, Zach Quinney, and Austin Smith. That’s not even close to being on a similar level of talent or depth to what Boston College has/had.

..

I guess we will just see this differently.

Also why would a recruit change their top interests to exclude some of these power 5 offers over the likes of massachusetts and connecticut if they were actual offers?

I'll stick with the way I see it.

Edit: the two guys you mention here, I showed their P5 offers, but again the rest are without. You can say well Vrabel was cincinnati and houston... but they also are not P5. All said, it is still very similar to our line, which was my point.

Maybe because they were more interest in those specific G5 schools than those specific P5 schools? The same reason other players can place Georgia Tech as a “top interest” even when they have offers from places like Georgia, Tennessee, Auburn, etc. The default listing is alphabetical, but players can change the order based on priorities if they wish.

What is there to see differently exactly? Genuinely confused here.


Yeah you listed *some* of their P5 offers, but ignored multiple other P5 offers and listed G5 offers instead. For Mahogany you listed Buffalo and Central Michigan, when he also had offers from Syracuse, Vandy, and Virginia. For Petrula you listed 4 P5 teams, but left out Wisconsin and Virginia. He’s another guy that had high level G5 offers in UCF. And don’t act like there isn’t a difference in high level and low level G5 teams. UCF, Memphis, Houston, and Cincinnati are on completely different levels than places like Idaho, Georgia Southern, and Western Kentucky which Tech’s OL has the majority of their G5 offers from.

First I listed the guy with the p5 offers, according to your own admission, in the order that the recruit changed it. South Carolina, North Carolina, Rutgers, and Penn State.

Then for the guys who have offers from Virginia, Syracuse, and Vandy, I apologise I didn't see them if what you are saying is correct, but you also can't have it both ways. You can't say the other guy should count as legit o line because he has offers from top g5 schools like Cincinnati and Houston, but then say these guys count because they had offers from P5 schools like Vandy, Syracuse, or Virginia because they are at the bottom of P5. See what I did there? And if they really had offers from these guys, why list g5 schools ahead of them in their interest level?

This is why I say we can agree to disagree.

There I put it all together so you can't claim you disproved my view point. because that's just not truthful


I'll post the last thing as well since that summarizes how you didn't disprove me

First I listed the guy with the p5 offers, according to your own admission, in the order that the recruit changed it. South Carolina, North Carolina, Rutgers, and Penn State.

Then for the guys who have offers from Virginia, Syracuse, and Vandy, I apologise I didn't see them if what you are saying is correct, but you also can't have it both ways. You can't say the other guy should count as legit o line because he has offers from top g5 schools like Cincinnati and Houston, but then say these guys count because they had offers from P5 schools like Vandy, Syracuse, or Virginia because they are at the bottom of P5. See what I did there? And if they really had offers from these guys, why list g5 schools ahead of them in their interest level?

This is why I say we can agree to disagree.

 

[GaTech4ever]

That's all you got? None of those things has translated to actual significant wins on the field. 5 of those things have to do with recruiting. You are basing him being a good coach with recruiting/promoting rather than actual coaching.

I think it’s obvious we’re trying the Dabo model. There’s not just one recipe for success.

 

[JacketOff]

Just to clarify how you didn't "disprove"












There I put it all together so you can't claim you disproved my view point. because that's just not truthful


I'll post the last thing as well since that summarizes how you didn't disprove me

So what you’re saying is that there’s no difference between an offer from Cincinnati and Georgia Southern is? That’s what your argument boils down to

 

[A Love Supreme]

He's our coach. So, let's stop pissing on him and let him do his job. I get you are highly skeptical about whether he has the chops to do this job or not. Why not wait until he has his kids in as upperclassmen and the system fully installed? If we are still losing in Year 4 he should be criticized. Until then, you're just dragging the program down.

How is saying he is unproven as a head coach bringing the program down?

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I’m a fan of Collins, but this coming season the focus is squarely on him. The first year was watching a new system being installed. Last year was about watching the high level recruits get on the field. I enjoyed both years even though the wins were few and the butt kickings were too many. 2021 is all about Collins as a head coach. I think the wins will be 5 or less, but I don’t really care. I just want to see progress and the assistants be held accountable for ineptitude.

If kicking 30 yard field goals is far fetched then we have a problem. If having safeties continually out of position then we have a problem. If LB play repeats itself then we have a problem. If 3rd a 1 is handled by giving the ball to Gibbs 8 yards behind the line of scrimmage then we have a problem. Right now, Collins has shown very little as a college head coach. I’m really rooting for him.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Ah there you go. Someone gives you the evidence you're always asking for then you go and change the original question again so that you seem correct.

Btw the guys cgc inherited were of the standard height of cfb non 3o teams and by the start of the season they were also well in the average weight department (since the old offense required faster linemen).

So then you go on to discuss debatable things such as "foot speed" like someone is on the field with a radar gun pointed at individual players feet and updating their foot speed stat on espn profile pages later. This again is your opinion, doesn't make it true.


It's ok to concede sometimes. I have with regards to CGC's recruiting ability and I've even noted an improvement in o line play from year one (though again I argue it was not a one sided thing such as talent issues).

I read that entire thread before i posted and i gave the definition what football talent is considered to be since you said talent is not the issue. You don’t need a radar to see some getting beat on that move all season after being exposed.

Thank god Sims still alive

 

[Ibeeballin]

I’m a fan of Collins, but this coming season the focus is squarely on him. The first year was watching a new system being installed. Last year was about watching the high level recruits get on the field. I enjoyed both years even though the wins were few and the butt kickings were too many. 2021 is all about Collins as a head coach. I think the wins will be 5 or less, but I don’t really care. I just want to see progress and the assistants be held accountable for ineptitude.

If kicking 30 yard field goals is far fetched then we have a problem. If having safeties continually out of position then we have a problem. If LB play repeats itself then we have a problem. If 3rd a 1 is handled by giving the ball to Gibbs 8 yards behind the line of scrimmage then we have a problem. Right now, Collins has shown very little as a college head coach. I’m really rooting for him.

lol Shotgun runs is almost worst than CPJ threads. That has been debunked as well

 

[JacketOff]

That's all you got? None of those things has translated to actual significant wins on the field. 5 of those things have to do with recruiting. You are basing him being a good coach with recruiting/promoting rather than actual coaching.

How does anything a head coach does translate to wins on the field? Most HCs aren’t calling plays, most aren’t involved with play-to-play strategy. Most aren’t responsible for adjusting schemes to opponents or creating mismatches.
How does anything Dabo does translate to wins on the field? Or Saban? Or Kirby? Or literally any head coach. HCs are responsible for everything that goes on behind the scenes. Culture, discipline, practices. The only thing a HC does that’s actually visible in a game is clock management. You can make the argument that Collins is not good at that specific thing that’s required of a HC, but unless you’re a program insider, you can’t make the argument that he’s not a good on-field HC simply because HCs don’t have many on-field responsibilities.

 

[Pointer]

I read that entire thread before i posted and i gave the definition what football talent is considered to be since you said talent is not the issue. You don’t need a radar to see some getting beat on that move all season after being exposed.

Thank god Sims still alive

When shall we expect recruiting to match Notre Dame so that our talent level goes to where you are expecting/arguing? Please give me a time table for when CGC gets us to that level. Do you honestly think we can get to, let alone sustain the level of recruiting ND does?
Pretty sure we aren't the only team ND did this to.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

So far nothing really leaps out, and after two years maybe he is just not a sideline coach. It apparently wasn't evident at Temple. That is not fatal if a coach has outstanding coordinators and a QB coach and gets out of the road. So far, however, that is not evident either. This was a very conservative hire to move away from the Johnson era. Maybe it will all work out.

Dabo Swinney has been suggested as a model -not a great teaching coach, not an Xs and Os guy, not great sideline coach, but hires great assistants, raises money, connects with players and sells a vision.

I’m game to try that at Tech. We will see if that works at Tech. Recruiting will perhaps be an early barometer to whether this is successful.

 

[Pointer]

So what you’re saying is that there’s no difference between an offer from Cincinnati and Georgia Southern is? That’s what your argument boils down to

That is a ridiculous reply.

Do you think based on the information posted above, by both you and me, there is a huge talent difference between Tech and BC when we were discussing this? Or were they similiar?

My point was and is that we have similar to same level of talent as BC who has done well historically in this position and held to high regard.

Edit: I'm no trying to demean you and I realize it sounds that way. Just trying to show the original point of my post.

 

[JacketOff]

That is a ridiculous reply.

Do you think based on the information posted above, by both you and me, there is a huge talent difference between Tech and BC when we were discussing this? Or were they similiar?

My point was and is that we have similar to same level of talent as BC who has done well historically in this position and held to high regard.

They were similar in the same way Cincinnati and Georgia Southern are similar

 

[Ibeeballin]

When shall we expect recruiting to match Notre Dame so that our talent level goes to where you are expecting/arguing? Please give me a time table for when CGC gets us to that level. Do you honestly think we can get to, let alone sustain the level of recruiting ND does? Pretty sure we aren't the only team ND did this to.

You just said you don’t take recruiting ranking serious. So what is it?

 

[Pointer]

They were similar in the same way Cincinnati and Georgia Southern are similar

So pretty similar:

Football Outsiders Offensive Line Ratings

	Line Yards Rank	Standard Down Yard Rank	Pass Down Line Yard Rank	Opportunity Rate Rank	Power Success Rate Rank	Stuff Rate Rank	Sack Rate Rank	Standard Downs Sack Rate Rank	Pass Downs Sack Rate Rank
Cincinnati	75	78	23	93	114	73	62	55	78
Georgia Southern	19	16	63	33	55	10	102	89	103

There are strengths and weaknesses.

But really it was a yes or no question.