CPJ Tweet

[Pointer]

You just said you don’t take recruiting ranking serious. So what is it?

That's not what I said and you know it.

Let me start by saying recruiting matters and is very important, but I think recruiting rankings get blown out of proportion.

I say this because we can't discredit someone as a coach or coordinator because they had highly recruited ranked classes. I think most of us can agree that Collins knows his stuff regarding defenses and to say he is not as good as the results because he had highly rated players is not a good arguement.

I bolded it for you.

your turn

 

[Ibeeballin]

your turn

You started this convo by saying the transition not talent is more indicative of the OL struggles

I can buy the transitioning from a drastically different style more than I can buy the talent thing.

This how we got here. Your premise is also we have similar OL talent to BC so you’re not buying the talent excuse. @JacketOff are both saying BS.

 

[Pointer]

You started this convo by saying the transition not talent is more indicative of the OL struggles


This how we got here. Your premise is also we have similar OL talent to BC so you’re not buying the talent excuse. @JacketOff are both saying BS.

How is that me saying recruiting rankings aren't serious? I'm saying we had enough talent to be better than last or close to last O-Line. By your admission we have one of the best O-line coaches in the country and by the fact that we have similar level of O-line talent to BC we should see much better results.

Just take the L man.

Edit:
Also note how I said I can buy transitioning more than the talent thing:

GTRanj2 said:
I can buy the transitioning from a drastically different style more than I can buy the talent thing.

again you're reaching.

 

[Ibeeballin]

How is that me saying recruiting rankings aren't serious? I'm saying we had enough talent to be better than last or close to last O-Line. By your admission we have one of the best O-line coaches in the country and by the fact that we have similar level of O-line talent to BC we should see much better results.

Just take the L man.

Edit:
Also note how I said I can buy transitioning more than the talent thing:



again you're reaching.

Where is the L to take?

Your bolded statement “recruiting matters recruiting rankings get overblown”

What do you mean by this?

 

[Pointer]

Where is the L to take?

Your bolded statement “recruiting matters recruiting rankings get overblown”

What do you mean by this?

I'm pretty sure you know what I meant, but I'll bite.

Recruiting matters means that for the top 10-15 recruiting ranked teams, it matters alot because its easier to judge recruiting talent in that range as its much easier to spot a 5 star and sometimes 4 star guy in highschool.
Beyond that it becomes more of a crapshoot the lower you go.

Hence the part to and extent.

If you're a factory, and you haven't recruited to your potential, then you can say that your offensive line is not living up to the level of the school because we don't have the talent we are used to.
If you're a team like Georgia Tech, a non-factory, you get the to an extent part. Because we fall into the crapshoot part of recruiting rankings, its hard to judge how much different, if at all, we are then the other teams we compete against that are non-factory.
Because eveyrone's favorite thing for a while was "we are the only power 5 team with no other power 5 offers on offensive line" I put the list together to disprove that myth and used a team that was historically good at producing offensive lines and linemen who has the same talent level we do with regards to offers.

This is why I said that transitioning from triple option spread offense to what we have now can be a better excuse for the poor production from the offensive line than the talent thing. As you pointed out, the stance is totally different, your weight distribution in your stance is different... etc.

This doesn't mean that I think there is or is not a talent problem, this just means I think its more likely that we have an issue with the transition. (This is without discussing the level of attrition with respect to injuries we saw in year one, whole other topic).

Now you can finally answer when we will get the ND level talent you expect and please provide a time table and strategy for how you think this can be done.

 

[Ibeeballin]

I'm pretty sure you know what I meant, but I'll bite.

Recruiting matters means that for the top 10-15 recruiting ranked teams, it matters alot because its easier to judge recruiting talent in that range as its much easier to spot a 5 star and sometimes 4 star guy in highschool.
Beyond that it becomes more of a crapshoot the lower you go.

Hence the part to and extent.

If you're a factory, and you haven't recruited to your potential, then you can say that your offensive line is not living up to the level of the school because we don't have the talent we are used to.
If you're a team like Georgia Tech, a non-factory, you get the to an extent part. Because we fall into the crapshoot part of recruiting rankings, its hard to judge how much different, if at all, we are then the other teams we compete against that are non-factory.
Because eveyrone's favorite thing for a while was "we are the only power 5 team with no other power 5 offers on offensive line" I put the list together to disprove that myth and used a team that was historically good at producing offensive lines and linemen who has the same talent level we do with regards to offers.

This is why I said that transitioning from triple option spread offense to what we have now can be a better excuse for the poor production from the offensive line than the talent thing. As you pointed out, the stance is totally different, your weight distribution in your stance is different... etc.

This doesn't mean that I think there is or is not a talent problem, this just means I think its more likely that we have an issue with the transition. (This is without discussing the level of attrition with respect to injuries we saw in year one, whole other topic).

Now you can finally answer when we will get the ND level talent you expect and please provide a time table and strategy for how you think this can be done.

Hopefully within the next 4yrs but not sure the relevance you bringing up ND doing that to has to Quinney and the talent of the OL. We recruit better than Syracuse and they did the same to our OL, but I forgot that was coaching not bc of OL talent

 

[Pointer]

Hopefully within the next 4yrs but not sure the relevance you bringing up ND doing that to has to Quinney and the talent of the OL. We recruit better than Syracuse and they did the same to our OL, but I forgot that was coaching not bc of OL talent

You brought up Notre Dame as an example of a busted pass-pro while you were claiming talent was the issue. Therefore the conclusion I drew was you expect ND level talent before we can say that its not a talent issue (which is ridiculous).

But I get it, you say the current coaches can do no wrong, they have inherited a horrible situation, they are the best coaches in the whole world, we are soo lucky to have them....

See how ridiculous that sounds? I'm sure you weren't claiming this viewpoint.
So whenever I make a point, and you misquote me to an extreme side of an argument while at the same time sticking your head in the sand once I give you a response and then continue to misquote me to make yourself sound right, it gets pretty tiresome and makes you look like you will only believe what you want to believe.

Edit: And BTW I have given praise to CBK several times for the progress of O-Line, so again you misquote me.

 

[ncjacket79]

Ah there you go. Someone gives you the evidence you're always asking for then you go and change the original question again so that you seem correct.

Btw the guys cgc inherited were of the standard height of cfb non 3o teams and by the start of the season they were also well in the average weight department (since the old offense required faster linemen).

So then you go on to discuss debatable things such as "foot speed" like someone is on the field with a radar gun pointed at individual players feet and updating their foot speed stat on espn profile pages later. This again is your opinion, doesn't make it true.


It's ok to concede sometimes. I have with regards to CGC's recruiting ability and I've even noted an improvement in o line play from year one (though again I argue it was not a one sided thing such as talent issues).

Curious about your experience playing or coaching football and what what makes you suggest that someone we all know played doesn’t know what he’s talking about. It would help you make your point if you could provide some info.

 

[Pointer]

Curious about your experience playing or coaching football and what makes tinder like you can suggest that someone we all know played doesn’t know what he’s talking about. It would help you make your point if you could provide some info.

Right because all the best coaches played D1 college football.

And Michael Jordan is the best evaluator of basketball talent.

Edit: I also never said @Ibeeballin doesn't know what he's talking about. That's obviously not the case and I have allot of respect for him. Does that mean he right about everything and I must agree with anything he says?

 

[Ibeeballin]

I thought you would look at the poor technique and could derive to the conclusion that maybe 2020 OL Wasn’t too far off from where they were rated

 

[GCdaJuiceMan]

This thread is...

 

[ncjacket79]

Right because all the best coaches played D1 college football.

And Michael Jordan is the best evaluator of basketball talent.

Edit: I also never said @Ibeeballin doesn't know what he's talking about. That's obviously not the case and I have allot of respect for him. Does that mean he right about everything and I must agree with anything he says?

That wasn’t my point and I suspect you know it. But you are arguing talent evaluation and technique. If you are like me, just a fan who has watched the game, then my guess is you really don’t have a good grasp of what it takes to be a good OL. My view of where we are mainly comes from my brother who played OL and coached at the top level of HS football in NC for over 25 years. When he found out we were going away from the 3O he told me we were going to be bad for a few years while we rebuilt an OL. Seems he knew what he was talking about.

 

[Pointer]

...

That wasn’t my point and I suspect you know it. But you are arguing talent evaluation and technique. If you are like me, just a fan who has watched the game, then my guess is you really don’t have a good grasp of what it takes to be a good OL. My view of where we are mainly comes from my brother who played OL and coached at the top level of HS football in NC for over 25 years. When he found out we were going away from the 3O he told me we were going to be bad for a few years while we rebuilt an OL. Seems he knew what he was talking about.

and what reasons did he give as to why we would be bad on O-line?

And if you go back and read what i actually wrote instead to how i've been misquoted, I agree that transitioning from 3O technique wise could be the issue and not just talent (whether its poor coaching or not, I didn't get into that). That's my whole point. I don't understand how that is some far fetched assumption.

 

[JacketOff]

...

and what reasons did he give as to why we would be bad on O-line?

And if you go back and read what i actually wrote instead to how i've been misquoted, I agree that transitioning from 3O technique wise could be the issue and not just talent. That's my whole point. I don't understand how that is some far fetched assumption.

It’s almost like... lesser talented players would have a harder time adjusting and transitioning than more talented players would. That’s a mind numbingly deep thought, I know

 

[Pointer]

It’s almost like... lesser talented players would have a harder time adjusting and transitioning than more talented players would. That’s a mind numbingly deep thought, I know

dude come back at me when you can actually back up what you say.

 

[A Love Supreme]

Right because all the best coaches played D1 college football.

And Michael Jordan is the best evaluator of basketball talent.

Edit: I also never said @Ibeeballin doesn't know what he's talking about. That's obviously not the case and I have allot of respect for him. Does that mean he right about everything and I must agree with anything he says?

Dude be careful. If you say anything critical of the head coach you'll bring the program down.

 

[Ibeeballin]

That wasn’t my point and I suspect you know it. But you are arguing talent evaluation and technique. If you are like me, just a fan who has watched the game, then my guess is you really don’t have a good grasp of what it takes to be a good OL. My view of where we are mainly comes from my brother who played OL and coached at the top level of HS football in NC for over 25 years. When he found out we were going away from the 3O he told me we were going to be bad for a few years while we rebuilt an OL. Seems he knew what he was talking about.

Your brother sound like everybody else.

Only thing that could have prevented this start is if:

1) The guys we hyped up on defense played

2) The unimaginable of BA passing

3) Cochran got accepted for the 2020 season

With that said, an Oline of Cochran, Pendley, Johnson, Williams give me reasons to be optimistic this season

 

[Pointer]

Dude be careful. If you say anything critical of the head coach you'll bring the program down.

Which is hilarious because I praised CGC as a goodDC lol.

 

[JacketOff]

dude come back at me when you can actually back up what you say.

You’re the one throwing around completely baseless claims, and defending your points with flawed anecdotal evidence that I’ve already disputed with actual facts.

 

[Pointer]

Your brother sound like everybody else.

Only thing that could have prevented this start is if:

1) The guys we hyped up on defense played

2) The unimaginable of BA passing

3) Cochran got accepted for the 2020 season

With that said, an Oline of Cochran, Pendley, Johnson, Williams give me reasons to be optimistic this season

And it sounds like the same lazy argument we heard about our old offense (you can pick from: we chop block, we aren't built for 3rd and long {Hilarious because I would love to see these offenses that are built for 3rd and long}, We can't score quickly...) Its just the default easy plug and play argument that the media attaches to because they are too lazy to do any digging.

But i do agree I am excited about next year. Also look forward to the end of talent issue excuse as the roster will be flipped due to, and I quote you as you put it fondly, "cgc running things more like a factory".