CPJ sez...

33jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,652
Location
Georgia
dressedcheeseside said:
The '11 offense was one of the best offenses we've had since CPJ took over and with a "game manager" at qb. The majority of the skill guys were not studs, either. I don't see how that is possible with, as you put it, an "OL was worse then than it was in 08 and 09."

In '11 our offense was ranked #11 in yards per play. In '08 and '09, with all those playmakers and "big" OL's, we were #22 and #25, respectively.

https://www.teamrankings.com/college-football/stat/yards-per-play?date=2010-01-08
Click to expand...

thats fine if you don't see how its possible. I have seen alot of teams with bad OL put up big O numbers; but see that is the difference in really seeing what is on the field and relying on a number. Stats in football are the most meaningless perhaps of all the major sports.

As an example. I offer you the atlanta falcons of 2014. Horrendous OL. Totally abysmal, maybe the worst in the NFL. #8 in offensive yards. By comparison new england has a far better OL. #11. So does baltimore #12.

I think we would all agree the 2011 falcons team was a better OL. Yet, slightly less yards than the awful 2014 team. And, only 1 pt per game better. But, much better OL. You don't have to look too far to see how total offensive production is not correlated with quality of the OL....but again, thats what tape and evaluation is for. Vs stats. Take a look at the awesome 2012 falcons...less yards than 2014. Must be the 2014 OL is better right? Nope...alot more goes into this.

we did not have strong OL in 2011, 12 or 10. Really. We didn't.

I will stick by my premise. And noticed someone else who thinks they know the game, or does know the game, liked my post. Must mean he agrees with a large portion of it
 
dressedcheeseside

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
14,212
33jacket said:
thats fine if you don't see how its possible. I have seen alot of teams with bad OL put up big O numbers; but see that is the difference in really seeing what is on the field and relying on a number. Stats in football are the most meaningless perhaps of all the major sports.

As an example. I offer you the atlanta falcons of 2014. Horrendous OL. Totally abysmal, maybe the worst in the NFL. #8 in offensive yards. By comparison new england has a far better OL. #11. So does baltimore #12.

I think we would all agree the 2011 falcons team was a better OL. Yet, slightly less yards than the awful 2014 team. And, only 1 pt per game better. But, much better OL. You don't have to look too far to see how total offensive production is not correlated with quality of the OL....but again, thats what tape and evaluation is for. Vs stats. Take a look at the awesome 2012 falcons...less yards than 2014. Must be the 2014 OL is better right? Nope...alot more goes into this.

we did not have strong OL in 2011, 12 or 10. Really. We didn't.

I will stick by my premise. And noticed someone else who thinks they know the game, or does know the game, liked my post. Must mean he agrees with a large portion of it
Click to expand...
Then how are measuring the offense? Eye ball test? I'm not a big "stat guy" either, but if there's one that holds more meaning than all the rest, it's yards per play. How do you justify the second best ypp in GT's history under CPJ on a bad OL? I'm not trying to argue at this point, I'm just curious what's your measuring stick.
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,088
GTech63 said:
It seemed to me that we started blocking and staying on our feet instead of diving at DL feet and whiffing. Did our technique change or is that learning curve. Same with downfield blocking but there were very good take downs on the perimeter. Again change in technique or learning curve? Maybe both? Thoughts?
Click to expand...
This has been discussed here before. This is a rehash of those posts.

A big part of this is that opposing teams began to watch how VT plays us. Foster was the one to start moving his DL a yard off the LOS to give them a better chance of defeating cut blocks inside. So other teams began to do the same thing.

Problem = VT is usually right close to the fastest D in the country, especially on their DL. They can move around a drive block and defeat a cut block a reasonable amount of the time; see their games against us and OSU last year. OSU tried to drive block them and the VT DL spent the entire game in their backfield. Other teams - Ugag, MSU - have DLs that are fairly easy to cut block, if they give you the opportunity. So they moved back and suddenly found out just how difficult life can be when you give a big, talented OL a yard's head start on a drive block. For an entire game. Of course, it also helps if you could beat them up considerable at close range and they know it. Oth, the best DL we faced last year - the Tiggers - did a pretty good job at close range defeating all kinds of blocks, but, luckily, DLs like that are few and far between.

If the other side gives us the opportunity to cut block on the OL, we'll take it. Improving talent has made that less an option for opposing D's, however.
 
Northeast Stinger

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
10,719
takethepoints said:
This has been discussed here before. This is a rehash of those posts.

A big part of this is that opposing teams began to watch how VT plays us. Foster was the one to start moving his DL a yard off the LOS to give them a better chance of defeating cut blocks inside. So other teams began to do the same thing.

Problem = VT is usually right close to the fastest D in the country, especially on their DL. They can move around a drive block and defeat a cut block a reasonable amount of the time; see their games against us and OSU last year. OSU tried to drive block them and the VT DL spent the entire game in their backfield. Other teams - Ugag, MSU - have DLs that are fairly easy to cut block, if they give you the opportunity. So they moved back and suddenly found out just how difficult life can be when you give a big, talented OL a yard's head start on a drive block. For an entire game. Of course, it also helps if you could beat them up considerable at close range and they know it. Oth, the best DL we faced last year - the Tiggers - did a pretty good job at close range defeating all kinds of blocks, but, luckily, DLs like that are few and far between.

If the other side gives us the opportunity to cut block on the OL, we'll take it. Improving talent has made that less an option for opposing D's, however.
Click to expand...
Well said.

Minor additional point would be to add that this year's offensive line was much better for a very simple reason also. They did not play hurt the whole year and they did not have to keep shuffling the lineup. That helps.
 
DrJacket

DrJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,178
Guys-- notice that BoomerGump moved the OL discussion to a new thread. We're getting back to all things funny/memorable that CPJ Sez....

That OL stuff is a great topic!! Just look for it over there and keep the analysis rolling.
 
DrJacket

DrJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,178
elwoodgt said:
"It's not a vengeance I'm after... It's a reckoning." - CPJ on the 2015 Duke game

...at least that's what I imagine he's thinking.
Click to expand...
I have an idea that's probably right on point.

It's funny. All of us are tending to focus on games like UGA, Notre Dame and Florida State. For obvious reasons. But, I think I have as much raw emotion tied up in the need to beat Duke as I do anyone in 2015. No more, but as much.
 
dressedcheeseside

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
14,212
DrJacket said:
I have an idea that's probably right on point.

It's funny. All of us are tending to focus on games like UGA, Notre Dame and Florida State. For obvious reasons. But, I think I have as much raw emotion tied up in the need to beat Duke as I do anyone in 2015. No more, but as much.
Click to expand...
I'd throw UNC into that boat, too.

Sometimes I can here CPJ singing the scarecrow tune from The Wizard of Oz but singing the words...."if I only had a D...." instead.
 
DrJacket

DrJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,178
“Kids who base where they go to school on places where, ‘Well, a coach says he can get me to the league’, they’re buying a 10-pound bag of crap. The only person that’s going to get you to the league is you."

“If I ever thought we couldn’t win, I wouldn’t show up. You only have to win 1 game a week to be alright.”
 
DrJacket

DrJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,178
What are your thoughts on the satellite camp trend going on now? – “I think it’s opening Pandora’s Box. You’re creating a nightmare scenario. Any time college coaches can go on a high school campus, hold a football camp and then charge kids and leave that money with the high school coach; that’s not good."

He's not perfect. No, he doesn't walk on water. But, do you not hear some integrity in the fact that he dared to speak out about something that other coaches probably wish he wouldn't?
 
GTNavyNuke

GTNavyNuke

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
10,057
Location
Williamsburg Virginia
DrJacket said:
What are your thoughts on the satellite camp trend going on now? – “I think it’s opening Pandora’s Box. You’re creating a nightmare scenario. Any time college coaches can go on a high school campus, hold a football camp and then charge kids and leave that money with the high school coach; that’s not good."

He's not perfect. No, he doesn't walk on water. But, do you not hear some integrity in the fact that he dared to speak out about something that other coaches probably wish he wouldn't?
Click to expand...

The bane of college football is money. But that is because it is so popular (e.g. can monetize the entertainment value).

The current system for D1 NCAA can't and isn't surviving. We have to enjoy what we have while we can.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
DrJacket said:
What are your thoughts on the satellite camp trend going on now? – “I think it’s opening Pandora’s Box. You’re creating a nightmare scenario. Any time college coaches can go on a high school campus, hold a football camp and then charge kids and leave that money with the high school coach; that’s not good."

He's not perfect. No, he doesn't walk on water. But, do you not hear some integrity in the fact that he dared to speak out about something that other coaches probably wish he wouldn't?
Click to expand...
I don't follow that stuff very closely but I gather the other coaches seem more concerned that somebody like Harbaugh can pitch a tent on their turf and recruit from it. Doesn't seem any other concern matters to them.
 
Top