CPJ interview - Nov 11

LibertyTurns

Banned
Messages
6,216
There’s reams of spending data for the past 2 decades where the competition, including the likes of Dook, ran right by us. The fact some are alleging that’s not true is just downright false. Hate whatever coach you want but GT is clearly losing the arms race. It matters and it’s not an Institute priority otherwise that idiot Peterson or our latest version would be taking action and not just the token initiative we got going currently. That catches up to what everyone else had in 2009.
 

684Bee

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,660
There’s reams of spending data for the past 2 decades where the competition, including the likes of Dook, ran right by us. The fact some are alleging that’s not true is just downright false. Hate whatever coach you want but GT is clearly losing the arms race. It matters and it’s not an Institute priority otherwise that idiot Peterson or our latest version would be taking action and not just the token initiative we got going currently. That catches up to what everyone else had in 2009.

$125 million is certainly not token. Especially given the history of GTAA funding. We are about $19 million away.

Need everyone that can to make a 5 year pledge, so that the GTAA can know what they’ve got to count on and pull the trigger on some projects. Doesn’t have to be huge amounts. If everyone on here just matched what they are paying for their cable bill, that would add up to a nice chunk of money.
 

ElCidBUZZingFAN

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
124
You and the apologist keep saying Paul had his hands tied or admin was against him, maybe just maybe he brought some of that on himself? Maybe just maybe paul is the one that soured those relationships. All you've heard is what Paul keeps saying. They have this and they wouldn't help me blah blah blah. Two sides to every story.
Paul Johnson from Day 1 wasn't able to hire the coaching staff he wanted because Tech was so cheap and unwilling/unable to pay for top tier assistants, and that was with an AD who was all-in with football.

And the problem hasn't been fixed or addressed. If you think the coaching crew and support staff that Collins has put together is his A-Team that he just knows he'll be able to ride and die with on his way to the ultimate success here at Tech, then you're being willfully ignorant.
 
Last edited:

Old South Stands

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
244
You and the apologist keep saying Paul had his hands tied or admin was against him, maybe just maybe he brought some of that on himself? Maybe just maybe paul is the one that soured those relationships. All you've heard is what Paul keeps saying. They have this and they wouldn't help me blah blah blah. Two sides to every story.
Just for the record, I'm not down on CGC at the moment. He faces some significant uphill challenges... many of the same kinds of challenges that faced CPJ.

Last night I was listening to Dean Legge on the "Dawg Post". The title of the podcast was: "Does Tech Matter to UGA Anymore?" https://dawgpost.com/s/1988/riding-home-does-tech-matter-to-uga-anymore

Overall, I thought he was actually pretty fair in his assessment of the upcoming game and the Tech-UGA series in general, but he has a lot of misconceptions about us... some of the same misconceptions that the general public has (and we even have of ourselves). He says he grew up in Atlanta, and basically implies that that gives him special insight into Tech athletics. He goes on to say that Tech "needs to quit making excuses" for its mediocrity and step up to the plate. Tech is in the middle of one of the richest recruiting grounds in the country and we should be able to compete with UGA, Auburn and Florida for some of those players. He again says we need to quit making excuses because the Dukes and the Stanfords out there are great academic institutions and are not making the same excuses as Tech, that the whole "academic" argument is turning people off. He also goes on to say that "Tech has a larger endowment than Georgia" (I didn't know this), and that we should be able to use all that money to improve our athletics across the board. (He notes that we've also slipped in basketball and baseball, sports that don't require nearly as much funding). I wanted to address some of those points.

- If our endowment is indeed larger than UGA's, it really doesn't matter because we can't touch those funds. The athletic department is funded from donations, completely separate from the general endowment. (I think I'm correct here?)

- As far as recruiting, it's laughable at the moment to think we can really go up against the Auburns and the UGA's of the world, especially for linemen, where we're weak. We have had some great NFL talent at the Flats in the past, but still nowhere near the level of the factories. We can't bring in linemen who can't read. Period. Nor would we want to. The triple option turned off many recruits who dreamed of playing at the next level. However, there were still a lot of guys out there who knew they'd probably never make the NFL but still wanted to play college ball. At Tech they could get playing time and even be a star, whereas they may have been #3 on the depth chart at a place like Alabama. For many of these recruits, education was more important than football. Problems still persisted on the defensive side of the ball because we didn't have a special "gimmick" defense (if one even exists). Without our "gimmick" offense, we face the same recruiting challenges as everyone else.

- Although it's important to be able to recruit the Atlanta area and have relationships with Georgia high school coaches, Tech is a national (international) brand and should recruit nationally, like Notre Dame and Stanford do. In Dean's show, he says that "Tech is not cool" in the state of Georgia and "has never been cool" there. I've found that the further I travel from Georgia, the more respect people have of Tech. And usually it's about the academics, not athletics. But the brand name is out there and respected.

- Regarding academics, it's apples and oranges to compare Tech with Duke or Stanford. As said many times before, Tech offers far fewer majors, and not everyone wants to (or is capable of) going into a technical field. Here is a comparison of some notable schools:

Stanford University - 119 undergraduate majors
Duke University - 98 undergraduate majors
Vanderbilt University - 68 undergraduate majors
University of Virginina - 121 undergraduate majors
Virginia Polytechnic University - 150+ undergraduate majors
Georgia Institute of Technology - 37 undergraduate majors

Many of us understand that Tech is not a university, but an institute. If we want to recruit players, there's a relatively narrow bandwidth of recruits Tech can go after, triple option or no triple option.

- How were we able to field good football teams in the past? At one time the culture was very different at the institute. The last time we had a President truly gung-ho for athletics (coupled with a reasonably competent AD) was with Patrick Crecine. He respected the history of Tech athletics and was a fan of sports in general. Tech succeeded despite the narrow range of undergraduate majors available. Since that time, each successive president (not sure about the current one) didn't care much for athletics. President Clough certainly didn't, nor did his successor. We've had a range of ADs who were either incompetent or didn't care. The attitude on the Hill was that Tech should be the MIT or Carnegie Mellon of the South, and athletics are merely an afterthought. In this kind of culture, members of the AD are hamstrung from the outset. The culture on the Hill has to change for anything to change on the field.
 

LibertyTurns

Banned
Messages
6,216
$125 million is certainly not token. Especially given the history of GTAA funding. We are about $19 million away.
As a data point Wake Forest launched a $140M initiative 2 years ago. We’re 2 years behind and $15M short of keeping up with them. In 2015 Dook launched a $250M initiative. We’re competing at half Dook’s level almost 5 years behind them. I’m sure there’s others. It’s not worth looking. We’re bring up the rear of the ACC which is the rear of P5 football.
 

Cam

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,591
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
There's just more recruits in this class buddy. And who has said tech can't recruit at a higher level? It takes more funding and initiative from the school as a whole, not just a good recruiter. That's why every year, it's the same schools in the top 20 recruiting. All the rest is a toss up. We are Tech fans, and you're a Johnson hater.
Can we stop with the "it's just more recruits" thing? That myth has been debunked so many times before. Rivals only uses your top 20 players in their calculation, so we can easily compare to previous classes. Here's Rivals' class values since CPJ received a recruiting staff increase after the 2013 debacle:
2014 - 1365 points (22 players)
2015 - 1455 points (27 players)
2016 - 1050 points (18 players)
2017 - 1508 points (24 players)
2018 - 1374 points (21 players)
2020 - 1681 points (23 players)

Only one class fell short of the 20 player mark, but everything else is comparable. A 170 point boost over the 2017 class already, which accounts for like 10 ranking spots. This class isn't even finished, but we're essentially guaranteed a top 30 class. Collins has absolutely elevated the recruiting, this is a fact. This doesn't even take into account the copious amounts of talent that has transferred into the program. I understand some of the criticism for Collins this season on the field, but the guy is absolutely maximizing our still measly budget on the recruiting trail and succeeding. Why do you feel the need to downplay his success in the one realm we expect him to excel in? Give the guy and his staff some credit and be happy for the future players entering this program.
 

GTFLETCH

Banned
Messages
2,639
$125 million is certainly not token. Especially given the history of GTAA funding. We are about $19 million away.

Need everyone that can to make a 5 year pledge, so that the GTAA can know what they’ve got to count on and pull the trigger on some projects. Doesn’t have to be huge amounts. If everyone on here just matched what they are paying for their cable bill, that would add up to a nice chunk of money.
I am done giving money to AI 2020... Until CGC and CJP can start winning.... This is crappy mess.... We were challenged with donating We have come through and have to watch this crap with the FB and MB programs.... Sad state for sure...
 

RickStromFan

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
899
The recruiting game of '07 and even just a few years later is night and day. The explosion of CFB resources, bells and whistles, etc. from the sheer avalanche of cash via TV deals and just sheer private competition makes it a completely new ball game. GT football fell laughingly behind. It's sad really - how unsupported our program is and continues to be.

To your last point, you're in agreement with CPJ, even if you don't realize it.

What I've always heard re: PJ & recruiting is that he was somewhat screwed out of resources. Does this mean that previous coaches had them but the resources were then taken away from PJ? Or that they weren't there at any point?

This isn't a difficult question. My belief is that it's more the latter than the former and that there was never some dark anti-PJ conspiracy, as some of his supporters have insinuated over the years. Repeated requests for conspiracy proof have generated data-free answers like yours.

I'm more inclined to believe my assumption (that PJ had similar resources) and the available data (similar recruiting results to Gailey, 1 outlier class notwithstanding) tends to back that up.

Now...are those resources criminally low? Yes - I absolutely agree with your point about our "unsupported program".
 

ElCidBUZZingFAN

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
124
What I've always heard re: PJ & recruiting is that he was somewhat screwed out of resources. Does this mean that previous coaches had them but the resources were then taken away from PJ? Or that they weren't there at any point?

This isn't a difficult question. My belief is that it's more the latter than the former and that there was never some dark anti-PJ conspiracy, as some of his supporters have insinuated over the years. Repeated requests for conspiracy proof have generated data-free answers like yours.

I'm more inclined to believe my assumption (that PJ had similar resources) and the available data (similar recruiting results to Gailey, 1 outlier class notwithstanding) tends to back that up.

Now...are those resources criminally low? Yes - I absolutely agree with your point about our "unsupported program".

No. GT stayed stagnant and everyone started throwing money around like it was going out of style. No one overtly subverted the organization by taking money away. However, the entire GTAA (including CPJ and he self admits it in the interview this thread is based) failed to take appropriate action to match the changing marketing conditions around them. You can't just toss the explosion of CFB spending aside when analyzing the aftermath of this. Comparing Gailey to CPJ isn't proper here. The worlds in which they competed is so different it would be akin to comparing Bill Gates and Microsoft to some 19th century railroad tycoon. The worlds are just night and day different.

Any org - not just in sports...in any market place - would similarly whither and die, if similar actions (inaction) were done under similar market conditions.
 
Last edited:

Augusta_Jacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,122
Location
Augusta, Georgia
What I've always heard re: PJ & recruiting is that he was somewhat screwed out of resources. Does this mean that previous coaches had them but the resources were then taken away from PJ? Or that they weren't there at any point?

This isn't a difficult question. My belief is that it's more the latter than the former and that there was never some dark anti-PJ conspiracy, as some of his supporters have insinuated over the years. Repeated requests for conspiracy proof have generated data-free answers like yours.

I'm more inclined to believe my assumption (that PJ had similar resources) and the available data (similar recruiting results to Gailey, 1 outlier class notwithstanding) tends to back that up.

Now...are those resources criminally low? Yes - I absolutely agree with your point about our "unsupported program".

Let's look at it this way:

Say in 2007 Coach A had a budget of $500,000 (made up number for illustration purposes) and that was roughly in line with the NCAA standard. Maybe a tad lower, but not enough to cripple a program. In 2008 Coach B inherits the program and the budget. As years progress, the budgets of surrounding schools baloon yet Coach B still has to make do off the $500k he inherited. What used to be roughly 80% of what the factories were spending is now less than half. Now, you can argue using semantics that no resources were ever taken away, and that the previous coaches had the same resources, and you'd be technically correct. You'd also be ignorant of the current spending by competitors to say that we should be able to produce 2007 level results on a 2007 level budget in 2016. That's like handing you enough money to take your family to the movies in 2007 and expecting you to make it work today. The cost of doing business always goes up, and we should have been keeping pace with our competitors, but we weren't. There was a news article a few years ago when GT added 4 new recruiting staff that mentioned how GT had at that time half of what Duke had in terms of recruiting. We were getting passed by Duke, and wondered why they were able to field teams that could beat us. Those articles have been posted here before as proof, but people generally ignore what doesn't support their agenda.

So, no, CPJ didn't have resources "taken away" from him, but where he started was much better resource wise than where we were when CGC came on board.

Note, in fairness to TStan, since he came on board there has been a push to raise the money to hire new staff, and the AI 2020 initiative, which he started after talks with the GTAA and CPJ, includes money to help fund staff positions sorely needed to compete, so help was on the way. Upon hiring CGC, the donors helped fund some of the additional staff that CPJ didn't have. (We still need more, but that's for another thread)
 

bikeseat

GT Athlete
Messages
312
I am done giving money to AI 2020... Until CGC and CJP can start winning.... This is crappy mess.... We were challenged with donating We have come through and have to watch this crap with the FB and MB programs.... Sad state for sure...

What were you expecting this year? 8-4 and a gator bowl invite? some of yall have Collins Derangement Syndrome. Waffle House Man bad?

The biggest pack of whiners outside of an AOC convention
 

Augusta_Jacket

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,122
Location
Augusta, Georgia
What were you expecting this year? 8-4 and a gator bowl invite? some of yall have Collins Derangement Syndrome. Waffle House Man bad?

The biggest pack of whiners outside of an AOC convention

Ironically, a lot of the posters who proclaimed 6 wins easy this year were huge CGC supporters. Several posters like myself, who were huge CPJ fans, have been the most vocal in asking for the fanbase to give CGC the time to make the changes needed. Now there are a couple of posters who have never given CGC a chance, but that was also true when CPJ was hired. No fan base will ever be unified behind a coach. Fortunately, we don't make decisions for the GTAA.
 

stylee

Ramblin' Wreck
Featured Member
Messages
668
Re: Johnson's tweet.
Loved the different permutations of trap and trap option. I'm pretty sure I saw veer as well. One thing I'm wondering:



This play, at 3:02. They leave the "end" #92 unblocked; the guard blocks down and the tackle steps out to take #50, the "OLB." Jackson reads #92, pulls, and goes outside.
However, it looks to me like #92 is in a 4-shade or 3 technique (inside the offensive tackle). So this may be midline?

On a traditional midline, Jackson should be running through that guard-tackle gap rather than outside. But it is possible that this is either a specific tag or alternate design for the play (because it's in pistol, and because of the flow of the LBS, its better to run outside or something) or maybe Jackson just didn't think running in there was feasible.

Any thoughts?
 

deeznats

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
469
Ironically, a lot of the posters who proclaimed 6 wins easy this year were huge CGC supporters. Several posters like myself, who were huge CPJ fans, have been the most vocal in asking for the fanbase to give CGC the time to make the changes needed. Now there are a couple of posters who have never given CGC a chance, but that was also true when CPJ was hired. No fan base will ever be unified behind a coach. Fortunately, we don't make decisions for the GTAA.

I remember a lot of those threads. Most of it, IMO, was because there were a few select posters saying that if CPJ remained or if Monken were hired we were at a minimum 6 win team. They then put forth the supposition that any coach we hired had to at least meet that standard to be considered a success. I think a lot of people at the time wanted to believe it could be done while changing offense.

I, for one, don't even think we would have had 6 wins staying in the option (and said so at the time). We just came off a 7 win season with a senior QB (who beat out all other QB's we could possibly start this year), our OL was going to be even more patchwork, and that wasn't even accounting for the injuries we ended up having. We probably would have ended up with a better record (would have beat citadel and maybe one other) but in the end there isn't much difference between a 3 and 5 win season. Both are poor.
 

LibertyTurns

Banned
Messages
6,216
I understand some of the criticism for Collins this season on the field, but the guy is absolutely maximizing our still measly budget on the recruiting trail and succeeding.
This is my concern- we’re barely giving CGC enough resources to compete with the bottom of the P5. The man may very well turn out to be a recruiting genius, but tying both hands behind his back while carrying all the other burdens of being a GT football coach is unfair. He’s got a solid class minus some key adds
so far, but what could he have done with a level playing field? There’s no way of knowing for sure, but you have to be ignorant in my opinion to not believe it would better.
 

cyclejacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
176
Location
Gainesville, GA
- If our endowment is indeed larger than UGA's, it really doesn't matter because we can't touch those funds. The athletic department is funded from donations, completely separate from the general endowment. (I think I'm correct here?)

Yes, the university endowment is separate from athletic donations. GT's endowment is about double of UGa's. Last numbers I saw were $1.5B compared to $750M. And this occurred despite the fact that Tech has had only 50-60% of the graduates UGa has. The fact is that our alumni have always valued education more than sports, theirs value football and barking rights more than education. Piss on 'em.
 

BleedGoldNWhite21

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,519
Just for the record, I'm not down on CGC at the moment. He faces some significant uphill challenges... many of the same kinds of challenges that faced CPJ.

Last night I was listening to Dean Legge on the "Dawg Post". The title of the podcast was: "Does Tech Matter to UGA Anymore?" https://dawgpost.com/s/1988/riding-home-does-tech-matter-to-uga-anymore

Overall, I thought he was actually pretty fair in his assessment of the upcoming game and the Tech-UGA series in general, but he has a lot of misconceptions about us... some of the same misconceptions that the general public has (and we even have of ourselves). He says he grew up in Atlanta, and basically implies that that gives him special insight into Tech athletics. He goes on to say that Tech "needs to quit making excuses" for its mediocrity and step up to the plate. Tech is in the middle of one of the richest recruiting grounds in the country and we should be able to compete with UGA, Auburn and Florida for some of those players. He again says we need to quit making excuses because the Dukes and the Stanfords out there are great academic institutions and are not making the same excuses as Tech, that the whole "academic" argument is turning people off. He also goes on to say that "Tech has a larger endowment than Georgia" (I didn't know this), and that we should be able to use all that money to improve our athletics across the board. (He notes that we've also slipped in basketball and baseball, sports that don't require nearly as much funding). I wanted to address some of those points.

- If our endowment is indeed larger than UGA's, it really doesn't matter because we can't touch those funds. The athletic department is funded from donations, completely separate from the general endowment. (I think I'm correct here?)

- As far as recruiting, it's laughable at the moment to think we can really go up against the Auburns and the UGA's of the world, especially for linemen, where we're weak. We have had some great NFL talent at the Flats in the past, but still nowhere near the level of the factories. We can't bring in linemen who can't read. Period. Nor would we want to. The triple option turned off many recruits who dreamed of playing at the next level. However, there were still a lot of guys out there who knew they'd probably never make the NFL but still wanted to play college ball. At Tech they could get playing time and even be a star, whereas they may have been #3 on the depth chart at a place like Alabama. For many of these recruits, education was more important than football. Problems still persisted on the defensive side of the ball because we didn't have a special "gimmick" defense (if one even exists). Without our "gimmick" offense, we face the same recruiting challenges as everyone else.

- Although it's important to be able to recruit the Atlanta area and have relationships with Georgia high school coaches, Tech is a national (international) brand and should recruit nationally, like Notre Dame and Stanford do. In Dean's show, he says that "Tech is not cool" in the state of Georgia and "has never been cool" there. I've found that the further I travel from Georgia, the more respect people have of Tech. And usually it's about the academics, not athletics. But the brand name is out there and respected.

- Regarding academics, it's apples and oranges to compare Tech with Duke or Stanford. As said many times before, Tech offers far fewer majors, and not everyone wants to (or is capable of) going into a technical field. Here is a comparison of some notable schools:

Stanford University - 119 undergraduate majors
Duke University - 98 undergraduate majors
Vanderbilt University - 68 undergraduate majors
University of Virginina - 121 undergraduate majors
Virginia Polytechnic University - 150+ undergraduate majors
Georgia Institute of Technology - 37 undergraduate majors

Many of us understand that Tech is not a university, but an institute. If we want to recruit players, there's a relatively narrow bandwidth of recruits Tech can go after, triple option or no triple option.

- How were we able to field good football teams in the past? At one time the culture was very different at the institute. The last time we had a President truly gung-ho for athletics (coupled with a reasonably competent AD) was with Patrick Crecine. He respected the history of Tech athletics and was a fan of sports in general. Tech succeeded despite the narrow range of undergraduate majors available. Since that time, each successive president (not sure about the current one) didn't care much for athletics. President Clough certainly didn't, nor did his successor. We've had a range of ADs who were either incompetent or didn't care. The attitude on the Hill was that Tech should be the MIT or Carnegie Mellon of the South, and athletics are merely an afterthought. In this kind of culture, members of the AD are hamstrung from the outset. The culture on the Hill has to change for anything to change on the field.

Just about everyone here ignores me when I say it, but the narrow aspect of the academics is the problem with recruiting, not how hard they are(though I understand they are very difficult). I say this as someone who grew up living and breathing Georgia Tech and never thought for a second about applying because there was nothing I was interested in. I understand it is blasphemous to some to think about broadening the majors. Simply being a life long sidewalk fan, I have no say in that matter, but it does affect recruiting and that isn’t a little bother mentality. That’s the truth. Whether it’s in the best interest of Georgia Tech to add more diversity in majors is debatable, but that will always hinder the athletic department.
 
Top