CPJ interview - Nov 11

[dressedcheeseside]

Yes. I don't know how many people remember it, but Tech had some highly rated DLs and OLs depart the school right before the 2014 season. Many people, knowing that our problem is always D, thought the season was at risk; I know I sure did. But we were way, way wrong. The departing players probably helped the team considerably by helping team coherence. Also, the players could look around them and see what we had, even if others couldn't. I also might add that Boomer put paid to all this recruiting stuff awhile ago. The up shot of it was that since we didn't recruit well (by the "rankings") that we just weren't all that good. All you had to do is look at the record of the last 11 years to know that that was horsepucky, especially on offense. We consistently rated higher then our "rankings" would have predicted.

Now, however, we had better do well recruiting. We're after the same players everyone else is and we're doing that with a smaller budget. We'll see how that works out.

Not only this, but we still have coach them up, put them in sound schemes that maximize their talents and not screw the pooch on game day.

 

[JacketOff]

Since 2009, the recruiting rankings each year for school "X"
9, 13, 17, 21, 5, 5, 15, 15, 20, 12

Since 2009, team "X" is 73-68. 5 wins over .500 ball.

On average, there are about 7-10 teams in the top 30 who haven't finished ranked on a regular basis recently. Team "X" is just the most obvious.

Coaching matters, and Team "X" (Tennessee) probably really regrets firing Philip Fulmer in 2008...

Tennessee has also had some serious head coaching dilemmas since ‘08. The guy that replaced Fulmer was only there 1 season. They panicked and hired a guy because of his name. **Then they brought in a salesman who actually had a pretty decent career, and did a lot of good to turn the program back around**
Now they’ve got a guy with a pretty decent track record who seems to have them moving in the right direction again.
So to prove your point, yes coaching is important. It’s very important. But having better players makes every coaches job a lot easier. Would Georgia be as good as they are now if they weren’t in the top 6 of recruiting for 6 straight years? Kirby has made some really boneheaded decisions, and their OCs have really struggled to utilize all the talent they have on offense.

 

[ibeattetris]

Many people, knowing that our problem is always D, thought the season was at risk; I know I sure did. But we were way, way wrong.

DFEI for GT in 2014 was 66th
ESPN team efficiency 59th
S&P+ defense 92nd

I am pretty sure that a couple extra playmakers on defense would have made that year even more special. We were carried by an incredible offense that year.

 

[takethepoints]

DFEI for GT in 2014 was 66th
ESPN team efficiency 59th
S&P+ defense 92nd

I am pretty sure that a couple extra playmakers on defense would have made that year even more special. We were carried by an incredible offense that year.

We lost OLs too, but you're right. If I remember correctly, we lost two penciled-in starters on the DL, one DT and one DE. That didn't help one little bit.

 

[TVan]

Thoughts on the impact of CPJ's consultation had on the Baltimore Ravens this year? A lot more option concepts this year and they destroyed the Rams.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Thoughts on the impact of CPJ's consultation had on the Baltimore Ravens this year? A lot more option concepts this year and they destroyed the Rams.

Ehh.. he made have showed them some blocking alternative or some option principles, but the Raven success is do to having a QB who is completing 67% of his passes

 

[ScGold]

We lost OLs too, but you're right. If I remember correctly, we lost two penciled-in starters on the DL, one DT and one DE. That didn't help one little bit.

Those losses hurt so badly, but all falls on the shoulders of the staff that recruited them. The old staff had way too many self inflicted wounds. When u have to hit at higher percentage rate on recruiting players that contribute than most schools, you can't afford to have players you've got a lot of resources invested in to come in and not make it two years is a program killer. Always playing catch up.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

DFEI for GT in 2014 was 66th
ESPN team efficiency 59th
S&P+ defense 92nd

I am pretty sure that a couple extra playmakers on defense would have made that year even more special. We were carried by an incredible offense that year.

The offense was great, but playmakers did not litter the two deep. It was very much a scheme driven thing made possible by a handful of playmakers in the most important places.

I’d even say Shaq was the key piece to that whole puzzle, JT second.

 

[SteamWhistle]

IMO You guys can’t compare Tennessee who plays Flordia Georgia and Bama every year to us. Tennessee doesn’t out Talent Bama Flordia or Georgia, but I don’t think we should be using that data to say Tech with improved refuting can’t out talent Duke, UVA, Pitt etc.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

IMO You guys can’t compare Tennessee who plays Flordia Georgia and Bama every year to us. Tennessee doesn’t out Talent Bama Flordia or Georgia, but I don’t think we should be using that data to say Tech with improved refuting can’t out talent Duke, UVA, Pitt etc.

First off, we play UGA every year too and we play Clemson every year who has been just as dominant as Alabama the last 5 years(they each have 2 MNC and are 2-2 against each other in that span), but for arguments sake, let’s look at Tennessee’s record over the years not counting those three Opponents:

2018: 5-4
2017: 4-5
2016: 7-3
2015: 8-2
2014: 7-3
2013: 5-4
2012: 5-4
2011: 5-4
2010: 6-4
2009:6-4

2014, 2015, and 2016 was a solid stretch( that was also a stretch that saw two of the opponents you mention each have down 7-5 seasons), but for the most part, that’s a lot of marginally over .500 ball for all those high recruiting rankings.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

We’ve also beaten UGA as many times as UT has since 2008.

Recruiting matters and I like my chances with better rated players, absolutely, but it’s not a magical fix. Need good coaching too. Hopefully we have the right one.

 

[SteamWhistle]

We’ve also beaten UGA as many times as UT has since 2008.

Recruiting matters and I like my chances with better rated players, absolutely, but it’s not a magical fix. Need good coaching too. Hopefully we have the right one.

I just think Tech recruiting top 25 in the ACC is comparable to a SEC School being top 15 in recruiting. During Beamer prime years 2006-2009 VT Classes were 31, 26, 18, 25 and you saw how dominant they were over the Coastal and how they could hang in with some bigger teams like the 2009 Bama game. I’m hoping Tech can get on that same type of run that would allow us to be more talented then every team we play and require masterful coaching from the opposition to beat us. Pretty much what Clemson does every week. I don’t see a lot of Masterful coaching in the Coastal anymore, yes Cutcliffe and Brown are 2 good coaches but I just feel Head Coaching wise the Coastal is one of the worst divisions in P5 right now. If Tech can get the talent here we are going to have to have Miami type meltdown seasons for Collins to fail. I just don’t see that happening at Tech, because even though the rankings of the recruits might be higher at the end of the day anyone who signs here understands what makes Tech what it is, I don’t see us having “Thug” players as so many of our fans refer to Miami players. (Even though a number of Tech players and players in College football in General were gang members in High school and still are now, and that doesn’t make them bad kids. A lot of them did it for money and protection or because their family members were involved.) I might sound like a broken record because this is what everyone has said since Collins was hired but if we get the players and make the right choices not just for the supporting staff but the whole Athletic Department Tech can really be a serious contender in CFB.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Tennessee has also had some serious head coaching dilemmas since ‘08. The guy that replaced Fulmer was only there 1 season. They panicked and hired a guy because of his name. **Then they brought in a salesman who actually had a pretty decent career, and did a lot of good to turn the program back around**
Now they’ve got a guy with a pretty decent track record who seems to have them moving in the right direction again.
So to prove your point, yes coaching is important. It’s very important. But having better players makes every coaches job a lot easier. Would Georgia be as good as they are now if they weren’t in the top 6 of recruiting for 6 straight years? Kirby has made some really boneheaded decisions, and their OCs have really struggled to utilize all the talent they have on offense.

Tennessee is not the only team that usually finishes top 25 in recruiting that struggles on the field to win more than 7-8 games. There are several, and the top 25 recruiting argument doesn't hold up for them. The bigger point is that it is going to take a COMBINATION of elite recruiting and elite coaching to get GT to a point where we can be competitive with our biggest rivals.

 

[takethepoints]

Those losses hurt so badly, but all falls on the shoulders of the staff that recruited them. The old staff had way too many self inflicted wounds. When u have to hit at higher percentage rate on recruiting players that contribute than most schools, you can't afford to have players you've got a lot of resources invested in to come in and not make it two years is a program killer. Always playing catch up.

I'd agree except for one thing: injuries.

Tech had more then its share of career ending injuries for key personnel during the last 11 years and, strangely, some of the most acute looses came from non-football related injury. Two examples = Jaylend Ratliff from an ATV accident and A. J. Gray from an undiagnosed heart defect (I continue to be glad that was found!). But that's the tip of the iceberg. The 2015 injury sunami blasted an entire set of skill players as well.

What you say is true to this extent: when we loose players who don't stay, we're in trouble. As every other program is. When you have good/great players either get fired (Mills) or knocked out by injuries then things get a good deal worse. Especially if you find your recruiting resources being curtailed year over year.

 

[ScGold]

I'd agree except for one thing: injuries.

Tech had more then its share of career ending injuries for key personnel during the last 11 years and, strangely, some of the most acute looses came from non-football related injury. Two examples = Jaylend Ratliff from an ATV accident and A. J. Gray from an undiagnosed heart defect (I continue to be glad that was found!). But that's the tip of the iceberg. The 2015 injury sunami blasted an entire set of skill players as well.

What you say is true to this extent: when we loose players who don't stay, we're in trouble. As every other program is. When you have good/great players either get fired (Mills) or knocked out by injuries then things get a good deal worse. Especially if you find your recruiting resources being curtailed year over year.

The year in question we lost 3 highly valued defensive linemen that were RSFR that were penciled in for 3 yr . Got nothing but a bill.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Even though a number of Tech players and players in College football in General were gang members in High school and still are now, and that doesn’t make them bad kids. A lot of them did it for money and protection or because their family members were involved.

I’ve lived in 12 different states & 5 of the 6 largest. There was 1 single team my HS played while in California that may have had gang members on the their team. I can’t think of a single other HS team in my entire life that I thought had gang members on it. I don’t think it’s very prevalent but maybe it is in Philly/NYC/Chicago, etc. I would be absolutely shocked if GT has active gang members in its ranks. Completely shocked.

 

[slugboy]

There's just more recruits in this class buddy. And who has said tech can't recruit at a higher level? It takes more funding and initiative from the school as a whole, not just a good recruiter. That's why every year, it's the same schools in the top 20 recruiting. All the rest is a toss up. We are Tech fans, and you're a Johnson hater.

There are a number of factors, but the class rankings usually stop after 20 recruits.

At that point, having a bigger class does nothing for your class ranking other than let you conceal the 3* offensive linemen that you know will be good and the recruiting sites don’t

I don’t know if a lot of the fan base thinks we can’t recruit at a high level, but it feels like a large fraction of our posts say so


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[slugboy]

Paul Johnson from Day 1 wasn't able to hire the coaching staff he wanted because Tech was so cheap and unwilling/unable to pay for top tier assistants, and that was with an AD who was all-in with football.

And the problem hasn't been fixed or addressed. If you think the coaching crew and support staff that Collins has put together is his A-Team that he just knows he'll be able to ride and die with on his way to the ultimate success here at Tech, then you're being willfully ignorant.

The GTAA was willing to spend for a talented DC. Ellis Johnson got head coaching money to be a DC and assistant HC at South Carolina. He got multiples of what DCs were getting at the time. It was “holy ****” money. There’s a difference between “cheap” and losing out when someone else backs up a Brinks truck.

There are about 20 teams with the bank account to play that game. Right now, and back then, Georgia Tech wasn’t one of them. But that doesn’t mean GT wasn’t willing to make a good investment on a DC.

If you’re going to say he was hamstrung in the middle of his tenure because Bobinski was horrible, I can agree with that.


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[ElCidBUZZingFAN]

The GTAA was willing to spend for a talented DC. Ellis Johnson got head coaching money to be a DC and assistant HC at South Carolina. He got multiples of what DCs were getting at the time. It was “holy ****” money. There’s a difference between “cheap” and losing out when someone else backs up a Brinks truck.

There are about 20 teams with the bank account to play that game. Right now, and back then, Georgia Tech wasn’t one of them. But that doesn’t mean GT wasn’t willing to make a good investment on a DC.

If you’re going to say he was hamstrung in the middle of his tenure because Bobinski was horrible, I can agree with that.


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You’re proving my point. Tech was (is) unable to pay competitive rates for top tier coaches and staff.

The issue persists. While others may have former OCs/DCs and even former HCs in extreme cases in support roles, we have ex players hired on the cheap.

Even our on field coaches are here at home town discounted rates.

We expect such a group to out develop and out scheme/coach the big dogs in our league and opponents? Ya, right...

 

[slugboy]

Then why don't recruiting ranking exactly mirror the top 25 teams? Think about that. There's not much difference between 25th class and 35th class. It's like individual prayers, yes must 5 star and some 4 stars are clear ballers, but outside of them, it's kind of a crap shoot.

It’s not perfect, but recruiting rankings are one of the better predictors of your team ranking. Development, conditioning, nutrition, scheme are others. The top 4-5 are elite at them all. Recruiting is probably the best predictor out of all of those factors.


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