THWG
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@SteamWhistle makes edits and things like that for recruits, if I'm not mistaken. That usually means that he has a gauge on what players are feeling.
CPJ interview - Nov 11
- Thread starter babuka
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JacketOff
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Lol. I love CPJ, but I think he’s as glad to be out of this dumpster fire some call the GTAA as some of the fans are. When ran with good players all around, the option is nearly impossible to stop, especially if you maintain a decent passing game. That’s why the ‘08-‘09 years were so good. Whether you want to blame it on the option scheme itself, lack of funding, lack of interest, negative recruiting, or CPJ himself, as the talent level goes down, the effectiveness of the option goes down. It’s really no different than any other scheme, but because it’s not seen very often it grants some built in advantages. That’s why Tech dominated the Atlantic when CPJ was here, they saw the option once every 4-6 years, and why the Coastal and UGA were able to figure it out.
Going back to talent level, for the past 2 years Georgia players have said that their scout team ran the option better than Tech did. I’m sure that’s all just to try to rub it in little brother’s face some more, but I honestly wouldn’t doubt it. A team full of 4 star players running the option would be incredibly tough to stop. Although there were definitely some more winnable games in there, Tech only beat Georgia with the option in CPJs first year, and then only years that Georgia made DC or HC changes because they hadn’t seen it or prepared for it before.
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We know that, but you'd be shocked at the amount of people who thought he played under CPJ...
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I know that, but how does that mean he automatically knows more than someone you've never met?
It is an assumption. Possibly well founded, but an assumption nonetheless. I personally know people on this board with connections to the GTAA that aren't advertised.
Pointer
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Do you get tired of repeating the same bs story over and over and over? Cause it doesn't make it true if you say it many times. Just look at VT towards the end of CPJ's tenure.
JacketOff
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What are you even talking about dude? I chose not to ignore you because I figured there wasn’t really a point. But if you’re going to make comments like that I think I might as well. I never even said anything bad about CPJ. I never have. My comment was entirely about the option itself. Better players = better performance regardless of the scheme. The option and CPJ allowed Tech to do “more with less” and have decent seasons even when talent wasn’t there. When talent was there, he had special seasons. I’m not sure what there is to argue about there, or what you’re even trying to argue honestly. It’s also very true that the Coastal and Georgia caught up to the option by the end of his 11 years, and that the Atlantic didn’t because they didn’t see it. Yeah, he beat VT 3 in a row before he called it quits. I’m not sure how that’s in any way related to anything I said. He also lost 4 of his last 5 to Duke, 3 of his last 5 to UNC, and 3 of his last 5 to Pitt. Like I don’t know what else to tell you man. CPJ was/is a great coach, but he wasn’t having great seasons towards the end. It’s harder to have great seasons when you have less talent.
Actually Paul did need elite recruits like practically ever other successful program. We were mediocre or worse without elite players.
08-09 - Nesbitt, Dwyer, Bay Bay plus one of most talented defenses we've ever had
14 - JT, Mason, Smelter, Waller, Butker
Sure, we had a very good offense most years. But football is a team sport, and the HC is ultimately responsible.
dressedcheeseside
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The jury is still out on that last point. A mild boost in ranking may or may not translate to the field. Production is the ultimate measure of improved recruiting.
dressedcheeseside
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It’s not impossible, but extremely difficult at the previous support level. Coach already had one hand tied behind his back, with the lack of resources, it became two.
RespectAPA
Georgia Tech Fan
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Good thing was, the difference of our scheme to most other teams was big enough that the kind of players we recruited for were 3*s whom we were often one of the only, if not the only, offer to come play P5 football, and then those 3*s, if the evaluation was on point, would come in and play like 4*s and occasionally like a 5*, because the scheme asks for something different out of almost every single offensive position. We can take a guy who is getting passed on by the other universities in the south because his pass blocking needs a lot of work, or his passing is only FCS level despite being an incredible athlete, he misses a few too many catches for comfort despite being a physical as hell blocker, or trying to exist at all as a FB in the 2010s, etc.
It makes recruiting easier to scout players that can play to an elite standard in your system but have flaws that limit them in other systems, because you present them with a choice: come here and play ACC football + vs. Georgia every year, or go to a G5 school and get less attention + play fewer exciting matchups. Or with players like Justin Thomas, offer an incredible athlete the chance to run the offense at the QB position rather than whatever the SEC programs that recruited him would have forced him into.
Now, to get those elite players, the offense now faces the same obstacle the defense always did: you gotta convince those elite kids to come here instead of taking any of the other very interesting P5 offers. This past decade we were able to take the scraps of the P5 and turn them into an effective and efficient core of players on offense and win games despite an anemic defense, but moving forward recruiting has got to carry of the weight of both sides of the ball. Whether Collins can make that happen will determine his legacy.
Do you realize how dumb that strategy sounds? Why on earth would you want to build a roster of lesser talented players? We actually had to have elite players to win. When our key cogs were not talented, we struggled to win games. CPJ was a great tactician, but let's not act like that system is the only way to win games. So many have been lulled into this self-fulfilling prophecy that GT cannot recruit.
RespectAPA
Georgia Tech Fan
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You clearly didn't understand the point of my post: "elite" is relative. A player that is elite within the flexbone spread option scheme will often be a player whom is simply okay or even bad in many other schemes*, and therefore we have practically free reign for elite flexbone talent in the country; if they didn't want to come here, those players would have to choose being high-FCS or low-G5, or going to a service academy and having post-grad responsibilities to work in the military. Despite the issues people point out that we have, us being their only opportunity to play P5 football is enticing.
And just because those players are rated 3* in the traditional ratings does not mean that they're 3* for what our coaches will use them for! Again, a kid that struggles with pass blocking but is otherwise a strong offensive lineman was perfect for us, since his issues are compensated by the fact that he will only occasionally be pass blocking anyway. [and, as I said in the original post, the same selection bias exists for pretty much every position except possibly the ABs?]
This is why I say that recruiting is easy, and why we were able to consistently be so much more effective on offense than on defense, which is beared out by advanced stats but also by simple unbiased stats like yards per play (YPP). The offense always, always, always [well, with the exception of 2015] carried the team, and offensive recruiting being easier for Tech than otherwise possible in this era was a huge part of why.
*for an example: trying to take those players and force them into our current scheme has turned a 6.1 YPP offense into a 5.0 YPP offense, which could easily end up sub-5 to end the season considering that they haven't yet faced what will be their biggest test next week. CPJ's offensive talent, when forced in a traditional scheme, really is mediocre... but the option makes the whole more than the sum of its parts in a big way!
And just because those players are rated 3* in the traditional ratings does not mean that they're 3* for what our coaches will use them for! Again, a kid that struggles with pass blocking but is otherwise a strong offensive lineman was perfect for us, since his issues are compensated by the fact that he will only occasionally be pass blocking anyway. [and, as I said in the original post, the same selection bias exists for pretty much every position except possibly the ABs?]
This is why I say that recruiting is easy, and why we were able to consistently be so much more effective on offense than on defense, which is beared out by advanced stats but also by simple unbiased stats like yards per play (YPP). The offense always, always, always [well, with the exception of 2015] carried the team, and offensive recruiting being easier for Tech than otherwise possible in this era was a huge part of why.
*for an example: trying to take those players and force them into our current scheme has turned a 6.1 YPP offense into a 5.0 YPP offense, which could easily end up sub-5 to end the season considering that they haven't yet faced what will be their biggest test next week. CPJ's offensive talent, when forced in a traditional scheme, really is mediocre... but the option makes the whole more than the sum of its parts in a big way!
ScGold
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You and the apologist keep saying Paul had his hands tied or admin was against him, maybe just maybe he brought some of that on himself? Maybe just maybe paul is the one that soured those relationships. All you've heard is what Paul keeps saying. They have this and they wouldn't help me blah blah blah. Two sides to every story.
ScGold
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Exactly. Its battered wife syndrome. Ur told long enough ur not good enough to have nice things u start believing it.
RickStromFan
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Did Gailey have "more resources" in 2007? Were these resources just snatched away from PJ? And why would such resources been taken away from PJ?
I too have read this excuse hundreds of times but have never seen the proof of the accusations before. Without proof, it comes across as another conspiracy boogey-man, up there with ACC Schedule makers and refs who were out to get PJ. Even the entire NCAA hated PJ - look at those new downfield blocking rules!! /s
If we did cut recruiting resources during PJ's tenure, I'm curious as to Why that would've been done. It's stupid to hamstring the largest income generator on our campus.
RickStromFan
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"It Is What It Is" and "It's never as good or as bad as it seems"...unless it's CGC as HC. Then, apparently, it really is as bad as it seems!!
TheFlyest
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Mild? Paul Johnson NEVER came close to sniffing a top 25 class. WTH..
Ibeeballin
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Mild? The highest GT ever was under at any point was 38. If 38 to top 25 is mild than i need to re-evaluate some things
ElCidBUZZingFAN
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Did Gailey have "more resources" in 2007? Were these resources just snatched away from PJ? And why would such resources been taken away from PJ?
I too have read this excuse hundreds of times but have never seen the proof of the accusations before. Without proof, it comes across as another conspiracy boogey-man, up there with ACC Schedule makers and refs who were out to get PJ. Even the entire NCAA hated PJ - look at those new downfield blocking rules!! /s
If we did cut recruiting resources during PJ's tenure, I'm curious as to Why that would've been done. It's stupid to hamstring the largest income generator on our campus.
The recruiting game of '07 and even just a few years later is night and day. The explosion of CFB resources, bells and whistles, etc. from the sheer avalanche of cash via TV deals and just sheer private competition makes it a completely new ball game. GT football fell laughingly behind. It's sad really - how unsupported our program is and continues to be.
To your last point, you're in agreement with CPJ, even if you don't realize it.