COVID at CWS

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Ugh. The constantly aggrieved covid truthers have invaded the baseball forum.

Deal with it.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I think the studies in Israel have lifted the rate among those getting the vaccine higher than 0.005% in the 12 - 30 age group, especially among mails. Seeing as how somewhat more info is available about long-term effects of myocarditis than about long-term effects of Covid or (if any) the vaccine, I would say go with the "know more" option.
But this is all getting into the "I don't like what you say, so this thread is closed" realm, so I won't say anything more about it

We should be fine with this discussion if we stick to facts. I will keep on the lookout for more data but my impression was that the most complete data we have at this point was that long term scarring of the heart was a common side effect of the virus. But I will keep an open mind.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

As others have said, the rules are stupid (in many dimensions), but everyone knew the rules. Unvaccinated people who have had Covid also have immunity just like those who have been vaccinated. Given NC State already had an outbreak before, and given their age, and given the large number of players who had been vaccinated, the whole thing per science should be a non-event. But everyone knew the rules weren’t set up that way. So it’s a sad is-what-it-is. The latest science says people who have had it should only get 1 shot. Couldn’t have been made more easy for people to protect themselves from the NCAA. NC State had an amazing run and were the odds on favorites in the final tiny group to win it all. Nobody can take away what they did this year and nobody will forget the NCAA has once again made a mockery of themselves.

 

[MWBATL]

Um, you do know that you can be vaccinated and still get the virus, right?

Actually, you can be vaccinated and still TEST POSITIVE is the most likely scenario, just as it was for Moses Wright. Tell me how many cycles they are running in their covid tests and that may well be your answer.

 

[MWBATL]

The NCAA does not require athletes, coaches and other staff working closely with a team to be tested for COVID-19 if they are fully vaccinated and showing no symptoms. Those who are not vaccinated must be tested at NCAA championships. Tests are done every other day at the CWS.

Sorry...mods please move..I posted this seconds after the notice went up about the new thread

 

[MWBATL]

More info about the N C State situation:

Avent told reporters Monday an illness was running through the team but made no mention of it possibly being COVID-19. He said associate head coach Chris Hart had been sick for five or six days and that second baseman J.T. Jarrett and pitcher Cameron Cotter weren’t feeling well.

 

[MWBATL]

It would appear based on what little i have read thus far that this isn't a case of false positives, at least for some of those on the team. I am still quite curious about the number of cycles run in the covid testing mandated by the NCAA. It is well established science that the covid testing that was done during the pandemic as designed to yield maximum information of exposure is that epidemiologists could better track the pandemic...but it also meant that 'many' of those who were positive really were NOT contagious or sick, but had merely been exposed to covid.

That's fine for tracking an epidemic. I am not so sure it is the best way to test in scenarios like this one. A more sensitive covid test that would indicate whether someone really HAD covid in sufficient quantities to become sick and contagious would have been a better gauge, imho. That would mean a test with fewer cycles run than what had been used as the norm during the pandemic. I can find no info on the type of testing the NCAA mandates. It is scientifically incorrect to think 'one test fits all' in the world of covid.

 

[MWBATL]

The more I read about this situation the more convinced I am that the NCAA is still using covid PCR tests at 35 cycles or more.

While the whole topic of cycles is a complex one and not a straightforward issue, the fact remains that the amount of viral load in a sample determines where in the cycles the virus is detected. Less virus takes more cycles to detect. More virus takes fewer cycles to detect. (I will repeat the caution that just because the viral load in a test result is low does NOT always mean that the person is not going to become infectious later...it does pretty clearly indicate they often are NOT infectious when tested).

I still cannot find the number of cycles the NCAA is using in its PCR testing, but my suspicion is they are using a pretty tight standard. If so, that is quite cautious (one might argue overly cautious) for the situation and science we have today about covid and young people. Especially to use it to disqualify players who have been vaccinated seems utterly irresponsible (and unscientific) to me.

I hope the whole NIL stuff ultimately leads to the total collapse of the NCAA because they have become a useless organization.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

We should be fine with this discussion if we stick to facts. I will keep on the lookout for more data but my impression was that the most complete data we have at this point was that long term scarring of the heart was a common side effect of the virus. But I will keep an open mind.

The unstated factor there though is that young people are less prone to get sick from the virus, which means they are less prone to suffer any myocarditis, except for what they MIGHT get from the vaccine. I don't think near enough research has been done to come to any REAL conclusion. But the studies in Israel should definitely be concerning at least.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Actually, you can be vaccinated and still TEST POSITIVE is the most likely scenario, just as it was for Moses Wright. Tell me how many cycles they are running in their covid tests and that may well be your answer.

And contrary to what is almost universally being reported, have it once does not automatically make someone immune for the rest of his life. One of my Tech friends, who used to post on this site, had it twice within 10 months, with the second time being worse than the first, which he had described as the sickest he had ever been. Fortunately, as far as I know, he is completely recovered now from his second bout with it.

 

[ncjacket79]

Hats off to the NC State coach! That is the kind of guy that I would want my son to play for. The death rate of this Covid BS is less than 1 % and most of those had underlying conditions. I don’t know the numbers ,but I’d say the 18-24 age group that these players fall in is nearly zero! Especially athletes that are in great shape. If we keep testing for no reason this will never go away, but that may be the plan. JMO. And GO JACKETS’

You would be wrong on the numbers but generally correct that it has been relatively low impact on healthy college age kids. Although I am not aware of the numbers and severity of the Delta variant. So you are saying if someone is sick they shouldn’t be tested or that if someone is positive those in close contact shouldn’t?

 

[jacketup]

Do you know who is? How many? Do you know the protocols? I don’t. Are vaccinated players tested. If so... what happens with a positive test of a vaccinated player?

I don't know.

According to ESPN during the Texas-Miss St game last night, vaccinated players are not tested. I agree with orientalnc's comment that it is unforgivable that the NC State players weren't vaccinated. By not doing so you screwed your teammates out of a once in a lifetime opportunity. If you didn't want to be vaccinated, you had a choice to not do so, but the choice to not be vaccinated should include staying in Raleigh.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

The unstated factor there though is that young people are less prone to get sick from the virus, which means they are less prone to suffer any myocarditis, except for what they MIGHT get from the vaccine. I don't think near enough research has been done to come to any REAL conclusion. But the studies in Israel should definitely be concerning at least.

Yale Medicine study that came out this month puts myocarditis rate at 12.6 cases per million shots administered. It also says that these cases generally clear up with no lasting effect. In other words the rate is similar to other vaccines, such as for flu or measles, and is mostly benign.

But good to keep an eye on this as well as long term effects on athletes of catching COVID-19.

On the other hand, the position of JAMA has been that the main concern over athletes and the virus is community spread since once a team member is infected the virus can spread well beyond the immediate team members.

Then there is the Delta variant which Israel and Australia see as a reason to go into full lockdown.

To me the takeaway is to not get complacent, keep gathering information, keep an open mind, and don’t be too quick to fault those making difficult decisions to try to keep the public safe.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

Yale Medicine study that came out this month puts myocarditis rate at 12.6 cases per million shots administered. It also says that these cases generally clear up with no lasting effect. In other words the rate is similar to other vaccines, such as for flu or measles, and is mostly benign.

But good to keep an eye on this as well as long term effects on athletes of catching COVID-19.

On the other hand, the position of JAMA has been that the main concern over athletes and the virus is community spread since once a team member is infected the virus can spread well beyond the immediate team members.

Then there is the Delta variant which Israel and Australia see as a reason to go into full lockdown.

To me the takeaway is to not get complacent, keep gathering information, keep an open mind, and don’t be too quick to fault those making difficult decisions to try to keep the public safe.

Rather strange and, frankly, meaningless to be talking about lastjng effects of vaccine-related myocarditis, when the vaccines only became available 7 months ago. LONG-LASTING means 5, 10, 15, 20 years, and there is no possible way to know those lasting effects from either the vaccine or the virus itself at this point in time. It is obviously possible to determine long lasting effects of early-onset myocarditis, but is that what they are using to project their interpretation?

 

[orientalnc]

Irrespective of the arguments for and against the NCAA, they published the rules (fair or not) and everyone should have been ready to compete. NC State clearly came up short. Avett says he let his players make their own decision about vaccinations. That is legit, but it cost the team a chance to play for the championship. Same as not practicing defense against a double steal. Or, a sqeeze play.

 

[ramblinwreckguru]

Irrespective of the arguments for and against the NCAA, they published the rules (fair or not) and everyone should have been ready to compete. NC State clearly came up short. Avett says he let his players make their own decision about vaccinations. That is legit, but it cost the team a chance to play for the championship. Same as not practicing defense against a double steal. Or, a sqeeze play.

Those are not the same at all. Covid is not part of the game and no coach or organization in the country should even have the authority to mandate a non FDA approved vaccine.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Rather strange and, frankly, meaningless to be talking about lastjng effects of vaccine-related myocarditis, when the vaccines only became available 7 months ago. LONG-LASTING means 5, 10, 15, 20 years, and there is no possible way to know those lasting effects from either the vaccine or the virus itself at this point in time. It is obviously possible to determine long lasting effects of early-onset myocarditis, but is that what they are using to project their interpretation?

If I understand your question, I think we are talking about two things to look at -scarring of the heart, which can show up early and is revealed by testing, and patients who spontaneously recover with no after symptoms.

 

[orientalnc]

Those are not the same at all. Covid is not part of the game and no coach or organization in the country should even have the authority to mandate a non FDA approved vaccine.

Whether it should be, or not. The NCAA made it a part of the CWS this year.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

If I understand your question, I think we are talking about two things to look at -scarring of the heart, which can show up early and is revealed by testing, and patients who spontaneously recover with no after symptoms.

I understand that, but there are still possible long-term ramifications to scarring of the heart. And do different causes for that scarring all have the same long-term effect? What may happen to some may also not happen to others. There just hasn't been enough time yet to make that determination.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I understand that, but there are still possible long-term ramifications to scarring of the heart. And do different causes for that scarring all have the same long-term effect? What may happen to some may also not happen to others. There just hasn't been enough time yet to make that determination.

I’m still not sure I understand what you are questioning but rather than pick at that let me agree that much more study needs to be done, and will be done.