Coronavirus Thread

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BuzzStone

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Like I said last time, pull up the 50 page plan. Go to the table of contents. Go to the appendix. There is a specific document with diagrams that describes how busing will safely work, with X’s drawn on the seats and everything else. You really should read the whole thing. It’s full of all kinds of granular details inside the school as well. It doesn’t excuse the Governor's obnoxious random new requirements, but it’s a very good document. If he would have just told school districts to follow that, everyone would have been fine.


It makes no mention of how many more busses we need, how many new drivers we need, how long each child would be on the bus, where to find the new drivers, I could go on and on but you just want to think the SC government has thought this through when clearly they haven't. The two major counties in the upstate have no idea how any of this should work right now and that is coming from the board administrators.

I will let them know you have it figured out.
 

TooTall

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Hmm, should I believe a guy that's spent his life dedicated to infectious diseases and whose statement on facemasks is backed by data and scientist around the world...or some dude on a messageboard.

I wonder who I should put more faith in...tough call...

You mean like Dr Fauci telling everyone NO NEED TO WEAR A MASK:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: His lies cost peoples lives, so why should we continue to listen to them? According to data, Georgia has been ahead of the curve with this thing, even without having a mandatory mask order. But I refer to my earlier post today. And dang you for making me break that lol.
 

Techster

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You mean like Dr Fauci telling everyone NO NEED TO WEAR A MASK:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: His lies cost peoples lives, so why should we continue to listen to them? According to data, Georgia has been ahead of the curve with this thing, even without having a mandatory mask order. But I refer to my earlier post today. And dang you for making me break that lol.

This is an interesting reference everyone keeps bringing up, but no one ever brings up the context to why Fauci said that:




Facemasks have become so politicized that people are going to interpret it however they want.
 

WreckinGT

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You mean like Dr Fauci telling everyone NO NEED TO WEAR A MASK:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: His lies cost peoples lives, so why should we continue to listen to them? According to data, Georgia has been ahead of the curve with this thing, even without having a mandatory mask order. But I refer to my earlier post today. And dang you for making me break that lol.
Cases are rising dramatically. Hospitalizations are rising dramatically. School districts are opting to be online because of public health concerns. Yep, Georgia is really knocking it out of the park.
 

GTHomer

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This is an interesting reference everyone keeps bringing up, but no one ever brings up the context to why Fauci said that:




Facemasks have become so politicized that people are going to interpret it however they want.


At the end of the day, everyone was learning more about the virus each day and recommendations evolved on how to protect everyone. The CBS interview was in early March and we were concerned with conserving masks (which initially were in short supply) for health care workers and those diagnosed or showing symptoms of the virus.

Many of us are scientists and should understand this process.
 
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Hmm, should I believe a guy that's spent his life dedicated to infectious diseases and whose statement on facemasks is backed by data and scientist around the world...or some dude on a messageboard.

I wonder who I should put more faith in...tough call...
So which opinion by which "dedicated" person are you going to believe this week. You do realize, I hope, that virtually every single one of them is now saying things totally contrary to what they said 6 months ago, and sometimes even last week. And which data is correct, when you look at something like HCQ, that was lambasted by some as totally ineffective and deadly, when that was not the truth at all, as recently borne out by REAL studies, and not biased ones. Redfield is head of the CDC, and yet the CDC has bungled the entire crisis from its start. It sounds to me like you are picking and choosing whom and what you believe. I repeat, based on just about everything else that has happened in the past 6 months, that Redfield is grossly exaggerating the efficacy of face masks.
 

FredJacket

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At the end of the day, everyone was learning more about the virus each day and recommendations evolved on how to protect everyone. The CBS interview was in early March and we were concerned with conserving masks (which initially were in short supply) for health care workers and those diagnosed or showing symptoms of the virus.

Many of us are scientists and should understand this process.
We all understand his explanation for lying... but he did LIE about the need to wear a mask. He literally admitted doing it.

I happen to be a crazy person, I guess. Telling the truth is always (100% of the time) my expectation. At the time, it didn't make sense to me... but I believed the "expert" giving me his authoritative recommendation. Then he changed his tune... explained it. I understood what he said; but what else is he (and others) fabricating or omitting to "protect us from ourselves" It made me very skeptical about the need to wear a mask & I delayed getting onboard. My initial hunch was correct... his lie created a problem for me & my family. [not wearing masks]

I would have been able to handle the truth. Something like this... "You NEED a mask, but make your own or use what you have at home until critical supply needs are met. We expect that to be X weeks from now"

If people ignored him & went out a cut into supplies.... oh well. At least he was an honest broker.
 

GT_EE78

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We all understand his explanation for lying... but he did LIE about the need to wear a mask. He literally admitted doing it.

I happen to be a crazy person, I guess. Telling the truth is always (100% of the time) my expectation. At the time, it didn't make sense to me... but I believed the "expert" giving me his authoritative recommendation. Then he changed his tune... explained it. I understood what he said; but what else is he (and others) fabricating or omitting to "protect us from ourselves" It made me very skeptical about the need to wear a mask & I delayed getting onboard. My initial hunch was correct... his lie created a problem for me & my family. [not wearing masks]

I would have been able to handle the truth. Something like this... "You NEED a mask, but make your own or use what you have at home until critical supply needs are met. We expect that to be X weeks from now"

If people ignored him & went out a cut into supplies.... oh well. At least he was an honest broker.
You're right. they lied to protect N95 mask supply for health workers but they are not the only ones who have a right to purchase them. It would have been understandable as a guideline but as far as i can tell there's no availability for the public even now. No one still is either asking or telling "We expect that to be X weeks from now?"
 

GTHomer

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We all understand his explanation for lying... but he did LIE about the need to wear a mask. He literally admitted doing it.

Pretty strong statement above. Can you share where he lied about the need to wear a mask then admitted doing it? My frame of reference is the March CBS interview in which the strongest statement he made is that there is no reason to be walking around with a mask. He did provide context for his statement later in that interview.

As scientists, we typically qualify findings we make by prefacing them with, "Based on the information I have at this time,......". His subsequent explanations allowed me to give him the benefit of the doubt. After all, we all made a personal decision whether to wear masks, regardless of what the experts said.

I also don't think Dr. Fauci had a financial stake in the mask business hence could not speak as to when they would be available for the masses.
 
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FredJacket

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Pretty strong statement above. Can you share where he lied about the need to wear a mask then admitted doing it? My frame of reference is the March CBS interview in which the strongest statement he made is that there is no reason to be walking around with a mask. He did provide context for his statement later in that interview.

As scientists, we typically qualify findings we make by prefacing them with, "Based on the information I have at this time,......". His subsequent explanations allowed me to give him the benefit of the doubt. After all, we all made a personal decision whether to wear masks, regardless of what the experts said.

I also don't think Dr. Fauci had a financial stake in the mask business hence could not speak as to when they would be available for the masses.
Fair enough. We're in parcing words mode. I recall being a little surprised the message was masks are not needed (by regular people... like me) to prevent spread or contracting virus. Later that changed (obviously). You're right it comes down to interpretation... he (the authorities) confused this guy. If you were clear on what you needed to do wrt masks... good.
 

RamblinRed

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I posted accurate numbers with accurate percentages from the State of Georgia and people still think we need to shut down and never go out, EVER. Risk reward is a part of life. I guess that I failed to mention that in a state of over 9,000,000, only 1.4% of people have tested positive. Of that number, 11% need to be put in the hospital, of that number 2.1% need ICU and 2.4% of the 1.4% have died, or .03 of the total population. But, I guess that's a benefit of not living in metro Atlanta or any other urban place, I have to research numbers.

I guess people can look at facts and make their side, right or wrong, look correct. I'm done trying to reason with people about the virus. Personal in the medical field at our regional hospital are even saying that the media and politicians are blowing this way of out proportion. This argument is like politics or religion being discussed at a family reunion. Best not to talk about it because you're not going to change anyone's mind.

You are creating a strawman TooTall. Who exactly is saying we should stay at home and never go out. That is not what is being said at all and you know that. I don't stay at home and never go out. I leave my house every day to take walks and do whatever I need to do.
Nobody as far as I can tell is even saying you need to shut down at this point or sit at home forever. They are saying we need to wear masks, we need to practice social distancing, we need to wash our hands often, we need to avoid large groups of people in close quarters as much as possible, we need to think about each other and not just ourselves and do things that allow us to get past this.

If we do those things then we can get this under control and resume a fairly normal existence. None of those things are really hard. Other countries have done it. It's only hard if people won't do simple things.
If we don't do that then our economy will never recover. People keep confusing what caused the economy to go down. It wasn't the stay at home orders, it was the virus itself. As Mick Mulvaney said in an op-ed earlier this week, in order to deal with the economic crisis we have to deal with the public health crisis.

The key is long term not just 1.4% of the population is going to be infected. it is going to continue to infect and kill people and make them really sick unless we do some things to slow it down. And if you don't slow it down it eventually overruns your health system and then the mortality rates increase significantly and then people get scared and then the economy goes into the tank. Who wants any of that.
 

Deleted member 2897

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Hmm, should I believe a guy that's spent his life dedicated to infectious diseases and whose statement on facemasks is backed by data and scientist around the world...or some dude on a messageboard.

I wonder who I should put more faith in...tough call...

I would listen to Redield and then fact check him. He’s also the guy that said the outbreak across the south was from travelers from the north while also admitting he has no data to support that notion.

Turns out in this case there are tons of studies which back up his mask assertion, so that’s good info. But with how wildly wrong these types of people have been this year, we should always double check what we hear from them.
 

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It makes no mention of how many more busses we need, how many new drivers we need, how long each child would be on the bus, where to find the new drivers, I could go on and on but you just want to think the SC government has thought this through when clearly they haven't. The two major counties in the upstate have no idea how any of this should work right now and that is coming from the board administrators.

I will let them know you have it figured out.

Stop being unserious. The diagram shows where all the kids can sit. So you add up the Xs to get the total. Then you compare that to how many people responded they’re interested in going back to school and that tells you how many buses you need. They do this every year. For however many buses you need, that’s how many bus drivers you need. If you can’t figure this out...I mean honestly - are you trolling? They all do this exact exercise every year.
 

Deleted member 2897

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Tech to the rescue again!

Want to know the risk that someone will have SARS-Cov-2 in your county, given different crowd sizes? Goto:

https://covid19risk.biosci.gatech.e...0BVFxmX1sy8YuuxKnQDm_HlQ2EuB0GjXdWEJF3KNs_DEc

I live in Cobb County. In a gathering of 10 people the estimated risk of one person having the virus is … 28%. A bit to high for my taste.

Let's have a contest! What's the risk of SARS-Cov-2 in a gathering of 10 people where you live?

Btw, the new look sucks.

that’s the most embarrassing document I may have ever read in my life. What’s the assumption, that the gathering of people you insert to get your answer are crowded into a phone booth?
 

RamblinRed

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Since we are going to get back into the HCQ argument. Let's bring that one up to date.

This is all from the Journal of Annals of Internal Medicine in the last 2 days.
First this review of all HCQ studies so far showing alot of biases by studies from both the positive and negative point of view.
Basically there isn't a non controlled study on HCQ that isn't biased. For example, the one released by Detroit Henry Ford - where the lead doctor says it doesn't actually contradict any previous studies. In that study the entire difference between the 2 groups can be potentially explained by a higher usage of steroids rather than HCQ.

Second, a new, random clinically controlled study on the use of HCQ and whether it is helpful in early (pre-hospitalization) stages of COVID19 by Skipper, et al.
It found no positive effect compared to the placebo and had more side effects (mostly minor).

Finally, a letter from the same Journal today talking about the whole saga of HCQ study, both the good and the bad.
Basically it takes to task the medical community for some of its work during this whole time, but also points out that there is not a single randomized control study of HCQ that currently shows it to have any positive effect whether provided early on or in later stages. Below are a couple of key excerpts.

"Taken together with the other published RCTs, the current study by Skipper and colleagues (9) provides strong evidence that hydroxychloroquine offers no benefit in patients with mild illness. If the peer-reviewed findings confirm the preliminary reports of no benefit in sicker patients in the National Institutes of Health and RECOVERY trials, the saga of hydroxychloroquine and COVID-19 will likely reach its sad end.
The apparent ineffectiveness of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment of COVID-19 should not come as a surprise. Of all novel drugs that enter clinical phases of testing, about 90% fail to demonstrate effectiveness and safety. More simply put, many good ideas in medicine do not work. There is no shame in acknowledging that. But there are deeper lessons to be learned from the hydroxychloroquine experience in the current pandemic."

"Prestigious journals have worked feverishly to rapidly review studies that could have immediate impact but have occasionally fallen victim to deceit, damaging public confidence in their status as arbiters and presenters of objective facts. The scientific community needs to do a good bit of stock-taking and soul-searching about its performance in meeting the challenges of the pandemic and how it will meet these challenges in future pandemics that are certain to emerge.
Unfortunately, the COVID-19 pandemic is far from over, but the emergence of data from well-done RCTs is a welcome development. Results of carefully done research, such as Skipper and colleagues' RCT, set an example for how we should search for effective therapies. It is time to move on from hydroxychloroquine.
 

MWBATL

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Since we are going to get back into the HCQ argument. Let's bring that one up to date.

This is all from the Journal of Annals of Internal Medicine in the last 2 days.
First this review of all HCQ studies so far showing alot of biases by studies from both the positive and negative point of view.
Basically there isn't a non controlled study on HCQ that isn't biased. For example, the one released by Detroit Henry Ford - where the lead doctor says it doesn't actually contradict any previous studies. In that study the entire difference between the 2 groups can be potentially explained by a higher usage of steroids rather than HCQ.

Second, a new, random clinically controlled study on the use of HCQ and whether it is helpful in early (pre-hospitalization) stages of COVID19 by Skipper, et al.
It found no positive effect compared to the placebo and had more side effects (mostly minor).

Finally, a letter from the same Journal today talking about the whole saga of HCQ study, both the good and the bad.
Basically it takes to task the medical community for some of its work during this whole time, but also points out that there is not a single randomized control study of HCQ that currently shows it to have any positive effect whether provided early on or in later stages. Below are a couple of key excerpts.

"Taken together with the other published RCTs, the current study by Skipper and colleagues (9) provides strong evidence that hydroxychloroquine offers no benefit in patients with mild illness. If the peer-reviewed findings confirm the preliminary reports of no benefit in sicker patients in the National Institutes of Health and RECOVERY trials, the saga of hydroxychloroquine and COVID-19 will likely reach its sad end.
The apparent ineffectiveness of hydroxychloroquine as a treatment of COVID-19 should not come as a surprise. Of all novel drugs that enter clinical phases of testing, about 90% fail to demonstrate effectiveness and safety. More simply put, many good ideas in medicine do not work. There is no shame in acknowledging that. But there are deeper lessons to be learned from the hydroxychloroquine experience in the current pandemic."

"Prestigious journals have worked feverishly to rapidly review studies that could have immediate impact but have occasionally fallen victim to deceit, damaging public confidence in their status as arbiters and presenters of objective facts. The scientific community needs to do a good bit of stock-taking and soul-searching about its performance in meeting the challenges of the pandemic and how it will meet these challenges in future pandemics that are certain to emerge.
Unfortunately, the COVID-19 pandemic is far from over, but the emergence of data from well-done RCTs is a welcome development. Results of carefully done research, such as Skipper and colleagues' RCT, set an example for how we should search for effective therapies. It is time to move on from hydroxychloroquine.

I am not sure who to believe. Some folks say it does no good. Others say it helps in specific situations, as i mentioned earlier. The two things I linked ain't chopped liver, and they think it provides benefits in specific circumstances. It strikes me as incorrect to conclude that it offers no benefit in patients with a mild illness. And it certainly seems factually incorrect for them to state there have not been any studies which demonstrate benefit in using the drug (since I linked to one). I don't really care one way or the other, but I do think it has become a political football that some people delight in swatting down because.....well, you know.

I am not sure there is a definitive answer as yet on this issue, but I am very content to let doctors and researchers continue their work on this drug or any other that provides help to those who are ill.

I just want politics kept out of the decision making process.
 

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I am not sure who to believe. Some folks say it does no good. Others say it helps in specific situations, as i mentioned earlier. The two things I linked ain't chopped liver, and they think it provides benefits in specific circumstances. It strikes me as incorrect to conclude that it offers no benefit in patients with a mild illness. And it certainly seems factually incorrect for them to state there have not been any studies which demonstrate benefit in using the drug (since I linked to one). I don't really care one way or the other, but I do think it has become a political football that some people delight in swatting down because.....well, you know.

I am not sure there is a definitive answer as yet on this issue, but I am very content to let doctors and researchers continue their work on this drug or any other that provides help to those who are ill.

I just want politics kept out of the decision making process.

The Drug has been around for decades. Some studies and doctors say in certain circumstances it helps. This is just another example of how many people let politics and biases infect their “science”. From COVID-19 to climate science and everywhere in between.
 

LibertyTurns

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Stop being unserious. The diagram shows where all the kids can sit. So you add up the Xs to get the total. Then you compare that to how many people responded they’re interested in going back to school and that tells you how many buses you need. They do this every year. For however many buses you need, that’s how many bus drivers you need. If you can’t figure this out...I mean honestly - are you trolling? They all do this exact exercise every year.
C’mon @bwelbo we all know what this is about. Wherever they live people are so dense they can’t figure out how to load a school bus, determine seating in a cafeteria, move desks around in a school, etc. Nobody’s told them to wash their hands, stay home when sick, use hand sanitizer, do temp checks, etc or wear a mask. Their Nanny State needs some imbecile Federale to dictate every single solitary item otherwise they get in a complete tizzy. Glad I don’t live there.
 

LibertyTurns

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Things seem to be chilling out down here in Florida despite the media antics. We’ll probably peak 17-19k cases on the Saturday tally & after that Florida will start to taper off. Even South Florida has tipped over & is on the downhill slide. Tampa, Orlando & Jacksonville are all in solid shape. I honestly thought we’d be flailing for another month, but today’s & this week’s numbers were very encouraging.
 

Deleted member 2897

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Things seem to be chilling out down here in Florida despite the media antics. We’ll probably peak 17-19k cases on the Saturday tally & after that Florida will start to taper off. Even South Florida has tipped over & is on the downhill slide. Tampa, Orlando & Jacksonville are all in solid shape. I honestly thought we’d be flailing for another month, but today’s & this week’s numbers were very encouraging.

Well that’s because 2 weeks ago Dr. Fauci thought we’d grow to 100,000 cases per day. We’ve only gotten halfway from where we were, so it would make sense to peak here LOL.
 
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