Coronavirus Thread

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takethepoints

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Are you being deliberately obtuse? One of my questions/observations was regarding a contradiction (in my view) within a paragraph of the written opinion in Jacobson's case, so how would rereading it contain "all the answers to [my] questions"? Moreover, what's the point of offering the link when I provided the exact text in one of my previous replies? Just to play along on this one thread, here is the text again, with the contradictory parts bolded:


It can be taken from the text that:

1) there exists rights secured by the Federal Constitution
2) the court guards those rights
3) the legislation does not invade these rights

Meanwhile, at the same time:

4) the court is unwilling to secure that right when that it allows a minority to dominate the majority

Do you see how (1)-(3) clash with (4)?
What I see is that you:

• Haven't seen what the basis of the suit was;

• Haven't been able to follow Harlan's reasoning about that;

• Haven't understood what the basis of the decision was about.

Go back and read Harlan. Please.
 

gthxxxx

Jolly Good Fellow
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150
What I see is that you:

• Haven't seen what the basis of the suit was;

• Haven't been able to follow Harlan's reasoning about that;

• Haven't understood what the basis of the decision was about.

Go back and read Harlan. Please.
Forget it. From this exchange, I've concluded you're just constructing some imaginary conversations/arguments when replying to me.
 

GT_EE78

Banned
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>Great news
With NASCAR Back On The Track, America Returns To Sports
Under the revised schedule announced Thursday, NASCAR’s premier Cup series will race four times in 11 days—including the traditional Coca-Cola 600, the series’ longest race, held over Memorial Day weekend.While NASCAR will hold its initial races without fans, doing so arguably will present a less-foreign atmosphere to television viewers than other sports. https://thefederalist.com/2020/05/04/with-nascar-back-on-the-track-america-returns-to-sports/
.
>NBC Sports and the United Kingdom's Sky Sports announced Monday they will televise a charity match this month to raise coronavirus relief funds, marking one of the first professional sports competitions in the U.S. since the pandemic began.(may 17) The PGA Tour announced last week it will resume its standard tournament schedule on June 11 for the Charles Schwab Challenge in Fort Worth, Texas. https://thehill.com/homenews/media/495948-nbc-to-televise-pga-match-for-coronavirus-aid-this-month
.
>even better
U. of Kentucky Plans to Reopen for Fall Semester
According to a local news report, the University of Kentucky is planning to reopen its campus for the fall semester. However, university officials claim that a variety of precautions will be taken to mitigate the spread of the Chinese virus.
https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/05/04/u-of-kentucky-plans-to-reopen-for-fall-semester/
 

bobongo

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Meanwhile, coronavirus death projection of IHME, the model favored by the White House, is revised upward again...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/m...social-distancing/ar-BB13AKrZ?ocid=spartandhp

From the article:
"The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington’s School of Medicine is now projecting 134,000 coronavirus-related fatalities, up from a previous prediction of 72,000. Factoring in the scientists’ margin of error, the new prediction ranges from 95,000 to 243,000."
 

forensicbuzz

21st Century Throwback Dad
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I understand the concern with the unknown, but at some point, we need to get off the dime here. We can’t know & account for every eventuality. When you’re a leader you have to make a decision and run with it. There’s a mountain of statistics regarding who this virus exists. Those people need to take extra precautions & the rest of everyone else needs to move along.
I'm not disagreeing with you. I wasn't suggesting we all stay in until there's a vaccine. I was just commenting on the unknowns. The bottom line is the shelter-in-place was never to protect the vulnerable, it was to flatten the curve as to not overwhelm the healthcare system. I think if it were only afflicting the vulnerable, the recommendation would have been to isolate them and everyone else go about their business..
 

forensicbuzz

21st Century Throwback Dad
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I’m not sure if people get reinfected with the common cold, or if they catch a different strain. There are about 200 “cold” viruses, and maybe different strains of those.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_cold


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was using it generically as an example, but I get your point. The big question is do antibodies present in the blood indicate that even if you're "reinfected" will you be contagious. The answer is unclear at the moment.
 

forensicbuzz

21st Century Throwback Dad
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Another factor is, what portion of the public is going to participate? For instance, you can open the business, but are enough people going to go out to keep it open? According to polls, most people are against reopening right now. I would assume a big portion of them aren't going to be getting out much. I'm not saying they should or shouldn't, but just pointing out that it isn't so simple as just opening up. You have to have a sufficient number of customers to make it work.
If you don't think people are going to get out much, then you should come visit Chicago. This weekend was beautiful (low 70's and clear). EVERYONE was out (trying to maintain social distancing). Even with a stay-at-home order, it was very busy in the Forest Preserves and other trails.
 

GoldZ

Ramblin' Wreck
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It also must be realized that the virus was going to cause a huge economic impact whether the government ordered shut downs or not. It is extremely wrong to assume that the economy would have just kept going as normal had we not enforced shutdowns. Apart from the many more deaths that would have been caused by not shutting down, it must be understood that the virus itself would still have caused hundreds of thousands (millions?) of people to get sick, a good percent of those to the point of hospitalization. While it is true that those over 65 are most likely to get sick, that is not always true, and HUGE portion of the active work force has gotten sick and would have had to miss time at their jobs anyway (in fact, many many more if there was no shutdown). That was always going to have a huge impact on our economy. I don't think these numbers are truly representative, but a recent CDC survey of 8 Georgia hospitals found that over 60% of hospitalizations were in people aged under 65, with 25% of hospitalizations coming from those who had no pre-existing high risk condition. LINK Employee sickness alone would have still forced many small businesses to close, and without the small business loans and checks.

Not only that, but whether the government officially "ordered" a shut down or not, a huge segment of the population was also always going to guard their disposable income and refrain from personally visiting non-essential businesses. A huge percentage and often times majority of individuals say they will still refrain from reengaging in the economy even if states lift all lockdown restrictions. LINK

No doubt it has been an extremely complex matter to try to balance all of the competing factors. But, quite simply, it is simplistic and silly to assume that the country would not have suffered extreme economic impact even had the government done nothing to "order" lockdown restrictions.
Very likely the post of the thread, at this point. Thanks RX7. Now brace yourself for: Fauci should be jailed etc.
 

bobongo

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If you don't think people are going to get out much, then you should come visit Chicago. This weekend was beautiful (low 70's and clear). EVERYONE was out (trying to maintain social distancing). Even with a stay-at-home order, it was very busy in the Forest Preserves and other trails.

I myself like to ride a bike in the neighborhood, but that's different from going to a restaurant or a store. There's not much chance of getting the virus if you're keeping your distance outdoors.
 

bobongo

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There's not much chance of getting the virus if you keep your distance indoors either.

You chances are much greater of catching a virus in an enclosed space. Airborne particles can stay aloft for a good while. If someone's got the virus in the store that is going to waft around for some time. I've read that ventilation helps, but it seems to me ventilation just spreads it around all the more. Also, it's harder to keep distance in the store than it is out-of-doors.
 

Deleted member 2897

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There's not much chance of getting the virus if you keep your distance indoors either.

If there is a breeze outdoors or you’re say running with someone, you have to keep extra distance. Airborne particles can travel much further if the air is moving.
 

MountainBuzzMan

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Meanwhile, coronavirus death projection of IHME, the model favored by the White House, is revised upward again...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/m...social-distancing/ar-BB13AKrZ?ocid=spartandhp

From the article:
"The Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington’s School of Medicine is now projecting 134,000 coronavirus-related fatalities, up from a previous prediction of 72,000. Factoring in the scientists’ margin of error, the new prediction ranges from 95,000 to 243,000."

What is interesting is the WH was talking about numbers as high as 200K for a while based on those models and then dropped the estimates when the models started telling a different story. Now they are moving back up from what looks like to far of an undershoot. I do like how the WH team is mostly listening to their science advisors. This has the feel of being politically neutral. A bit refreshing from what we have had in the past from both sides.
 

bobongo

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What is interesting is the WH was talking about numbers as high as 200K for a while based on those models and then dropped the estimates when the models started telling a different story. Now they are moving back up from what looks like to far of an undershoot. I do like how the WH team is mostly listening to their science advisors. This has the feel of being politically neutral. A bit refreshing from what we have had in the past from both sides.

The predictive numbers are really all over the place. The biggest unknown is how much a factor the warm weather will be. No one seems to know the answer to that right now.
 

FredJacket

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There's not much chance of getting the virus if you keep your distance indoors either.
You chances are much greater of catching a virus in an enclosed space. Airborne particles can stay aloft for a good while. If someone's got the virus in the store that is going to waft around for some time. I've read that ventilation helps, but it seems to me ventilation just spreads it around all the more. Also, it's harder to keep distance in the store than it is out-of-doors.
Oblige me. Read my comment. Then read your response. Can you see how both of us can be correct?
 

bobongo

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7,758
Oblige me. Read my comment. Then read your response. Can you see how both of us can be correct?

Well I do agree that there probably is a fairly low chance of getting it indoors in any single instance if you keep your distance and wear a mask properly, follow all the rules, etc. However, the risk accumulates with every venture out. But, yes, I think we are both right. One problem is, though, that you can't wear a mask and eat/drink at the same time. Indoor dining would seem to be one of the greatest risks.

But I just get the feeling your chances are better outdoors, depending on how many people you run across. Riding on the street in my neighborhood, I only came across six people today walking/running and I made sure to stay on the opposite side of the street, with at least ten feet separation. But my risk accumulates, too, with every venture out.

Edited addition: Also, I hold my breath as I ride by, at least 20 feet before I approach a walker/runner and twenty feet after I pass. Just a little added protection.
 
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