IEEEWreck
Ramblin' Wreck
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Sorry, I don't post here every day and then I got the post button out of reflex, but I couldn't let this one pass. This is the way pseudoscience takes advantage of the rigorous controls of real science, by shifting positions rapidly as a number of real studies come out. First it's chloroquines, then it's chloroquines and an antibiotic (despite that making no sense) and then it's chloroquines, an antibiotic, and zinc. Then it's only if you give it early in the course of disease. There's never an examination of the meaning of studies performed. If you are familiar with antivax claims about vaccines causing autism, you'll recognize the pattern.Most of what you said has already been debunked earlier in the thread. Yea, its a long thread.
It's just sad that so much media is putting out disinformation while others are saving lives and trying to get therapies approved.
Note - debunked means that of the studies i think your referencing have already been explained they were irrelevant due to either late application, lack of zinc, much larger dosage than the covid-19 dose, or in the VA case just scientific misconduct, so i'd request that you link your sources.Some of these just winnowed down what works and doesn't; which is as it should be. The Z-pack isn't for everyone,at least one other antibiotic that also works has been identified.
> the first french study was small
the mortality in the third French study (1061 patients) was 0.47%, and presently the IHU-Mediterrannee Infection is reporting 15 fatalities in 3181 patients treated for more than 3 days with HCQ/AZ, which is still a mortality rate of 0.47%.
Patients not treated with HCQ in other hospitals in the Mareille area: 128 deaths in 4763 cases. (2.7%)
Given the same proportion of fatalities as in the non-HCQ cohort one would have expected more than 85 deaths in the HCQ treated patients.
This is a highly significant difference, p < 0.0002. (not to mention 0 side effects over 1061 patients)
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Ten comparative studies were identified involving 1,642 patients (965 patients treated witha 53chloroquine derivative) from fivecountries (Brazil, China, France, Iran, and USA) (Table S1).When considering all ten included studies (Figure 1, Table S2), chloroquine derivatives were associated with a lower need for hospitalisation (n = 1, Odds ratio (OR) 0.35, p = .024), shorter duration of cough (n = 1, OR 0.13, p = .001), shorter duration of fever (n = 1, OR 0.14, p = .001), decreased C-reactive protein level (n = 1, OR 0.55, p = .045), and increased hospital discharge (n = 1, 67OR 0.05, p =.050).
CQ derivatives were associated with a beneficial effect (OR < 1) for 11 of the 12 outcomes analysed (Figure 1). Of the comparisons made, 19 were favourable (Table S1).Accordingly, the two-sided sign-test p-value was 0.015. The fatality rate was analysed in two studies with an opposite direction of effect. The study reporting an increased fatality rate was suspected of scientific misconduct (patientsweresignificantly more severe in the treated group [7]). No significant negative effect was observed. https://www.mediterranee-infection....cy-of-Chloroquine-derivatives-in-COVID-19.pdf
>> 91.6 % success over 2333 patients ) an excellent idea rather than a bad one
Hydroxychloroquine Has about 90 Percent Chance of Helping COVID-19 Patients, States Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS)
To date, the total number of reported patients treated with HCQ, with or without zinc and the widely used antibiotic azithromycin, is 2,333, writes AAPS, in observational data from China, France, South Korea, Algeria, and the U.S. Of these, 2,137 or 91.6 percent improved clinically. There were 63 deaths, all but 11 in a single retrospective report from the Veterans Administration where the patients were severely ill.The antiviral properties of these drugs have been studied since 2003. Particularly when combined with zinc, they hinder viral entry into cells and inhibit replication. They may also prevent overreaction by the immune system, which causes the cytokine storm responsible for much of the damage in severe cases, explains AAPS. HCQ is often very helpful in treating autoimmune diseases such as lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hydroxychloroquine-90-percent-chance-helping-155637974.html
>> 5 studies?? here's a list of over 20 peer reviewed studies from AAPS
"Historical controls are used in many previous studies in medicine. In this respect, the safety of Hydroxychloroquine is well documented. When the safe use of this drug is projected against its apparent effect of decreasing the progression of early cases to ventilator use, it is difficult to understand the reluctance of the authorities in charge of U.S. pandemic management to recommend its use in early COVID-19 cases. "
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1545C_dJWMIAgqeLEsfo2U8Kq5WprDuARXrJl6N1aDjY/edit
Again, the French studies out of Marseilles are of extremely poor quality. They do not track severity at presentation, are open label, and are not randomized. That's enough to tell you that their error is unknowable, since they're using small groups with early infections and not tracking severity at admission could reasonably explain many times the differences in their findings, which amount to only a few dozen patients.
The antivax thing is relevant, because the AAPS is a society of ultra-right cranks with no credibility. Their "Journal" has in the past published claims that HIV doesn't cause AIDS, that vaccinations are a net public health harm, and that there is no over prescription of opioids. They also defended Rush Limbaugh's drug addiction in court as medically reasonable.
If you look at that Google doc, you'll find many items that arent studies at all, and then more that aren't peer reviewed, and then more that are in vitro investigations. They also claim to perform a meta-analysis of ten studies (which causes it's own issues) but when you examine their results all the n=1 raise some major red flags.