Coronavirus Thread

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I do not want to scare people. We need to be calm. However, I have several loved ones on the staff at Piedmont here in Atlanta. They are already overwhelmed. And many of the patients are a lot younger than you’d expect. We need to take this thing seriously and stay home and do our part.

My wife is a nurse (with 5 degrees including 4 engineering degrees LOL). She says the same thing - their ICU and PCU are both already full, with 0 COVID-19 patients, although she said there was a rumor there was 1. That's the big risk, the healthcare system capacity.
 

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Everywhere is still only testing IF: you have symptoms, AND you have traveled to a country with an outbreak, or you have been around someone who has been confirmed to have the virus.

Places all around are saying that testing is available for those who need it, but when you look at the definition of who needs it, it isn't everyone you believe it to be.

I have a cousin who is an ER nurse and she said they can barely get their job done because the ER is packed full of people with no symptoms or at worst allergy symptoms and they want a test. They are very insistent they are sick, so then they end up spending 20 minutes screening someone before determining its a waste of time. But then they've just wasted 20 minutes. And there's a long line of more waiting. Even the people who get through the screening are less than 10% coming back positive. All these people who are worried need to just stay home and self-quarantine if they're that worried about it. I mean we're all doing that right now anyway, so should be no different. In the meantime back to my cousin, they spend all day with like 50 people in close proximity in an emergency room. Sigh.
 

RonJohn

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I think we can all see that with the doubling of cases every 2 days when the virus is not contained and its incubation period of up to 14 days, we probably have another 7-10 days of linear case growth. I think we hit close to 200K cases before it flattens out. The real question is will there be another jump due to a lot people not taking this first round of social distancing serious. I think this lack of concern crosses generational boundaries and not just the young dumb ones :)

The amount of gnashing of teeth and panic will greatly increase & continue for the next 2 weeks.

Khan Academy did a video on Youtube a few days ago. They got their data from a different source, and they were looking at the data as more of a pure mathematical exercise. He extrapolated number of current cases from the mortality rate(in flux) and the time to double(in flux). They compared the infection cycle to the diagnosis cycle and later the mortality rate and time to double to estimate the number of actual cases. His conclusion (based on some very rough date) is that when the first person in an area dies of COVID-19, that 1,600 people are actually infected. Using that method would suggest that there are at least 104,000 infections in Georgia at the moment.

 

FredJacket

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I have a cousin who is an ER nurse and she said they can barely get their job done because the ER is packed full of people with no symptoms or at worst allergy symptoms and they want a test. They are very insistent they are sick, so then they end up spending 20 minutes screening someone before determining its a waste of time. But then they've just wasted 20 minutes. And there's a long line of more waiting. Even the people who get through the screening are less than 10% coming back positive. All these people who are worried need to just stay home and self-quarantine if they're that worried about it. I mean we're all doing that right now anyway, so should be no different. In the meantime back to my cousin, they spend all day with like 50 people in close proximity in an emergency room. Sigh.
The % of positives in Virginia is down to 5%... No idea what to make of this. Encouraging?
 

BleedGoldNWhite21

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My wife is a nurse (with 5 degrees including 4 engineering degrees LOL). She says the same thing - their ICU and PCU are both already full, with 0 COVID-19 patients, although she said there was a rumor there was 1. That's the big risk, the healthcare system capacity.

Exactly. If too many people have it at once, more people are going to have serious difficulties with this virus simply because they won’t be able to get the medical help they need.
 

MountainBuzzMan

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Khan Academy did a video on Youtube a few days ago. They got their data from a different source, and they were looking at the data as more of a pure mathematical exercise. He extrapolated number of current cases from the mortality rate(in flux) and the time to double(in flux). They compared the infection cycle to the diagnosis cycle and later the mortality rate and time to double to estimate the number of actual cases. His conclusion (based on some very rough date) is that when the first person in an area dies of COVID-19, that 1,600 people are actually infected. Using that method would suggest that there are at least 104,000 infections in Georgia at the moment.



I don't doubt that, it may be a bit high but the data behind it seems resonable. I was estimated the 200K was verified tested cases. We all know the actual would be a much higher number of cases
 

Techster

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Two things make this virus particularly insidious. One is the lag time between contagiousness and symptoms - up to 5 days or more. The other is the fact that it does affect older people more than younger (although 38% of the hospitalized are between 20 and 55). I remember what it was like to be young - thought I would live forever. So the young are crowding the beaches and living it up while spreading death.

Cities and states shutting down doesn't do any good right now. If the strategy is self containment so virus runs its course, then it will need 100% cooperation across the United States. Short of that, it does singular cities no good because a positive carrier can still come in and the spread starts all over again. Here are the things that need to happen:

1. 100% testing to identify who has the virus and who doesn't and make the ones that are positive self contain for 14-21 days and retest afterwards to make sure they are "clean". There's a reason why South Korea emphasized testing on a broad scale as soon as they identified a carrier. They also did contamination tracing with all positive carriers to see who else could have been infected.

2. 100% self containment in all cities across the United States (see paragraph intro). Will also require shutting down the borders until a high percentage of the world population is infection free. This is probably the one that does the most damage to not only our economy, but the world's economy.

These are other options that are the "nuclear scenario"

1. Let the virus run its course and deal with the consequences. Right now, the highest guarantee of immunity from the virus is to catch it and deal with it. Of course, the "herd immunization" theory would lead to deaths on a massive scale...is the world willing to live with that? Can the world deal and all the hospitals deal with the fallout?

2. Quarantine the elderly, the immuno compromised, the sick, and the children. Let everyone else catch it on purpose and let the virus run its course. Of course, there's a lot of fallout here as the scenario above, but less than the first one (in theory).

Short of someone finding a magic bullet (the cure), there are no easy answers. Given how many people there are in the world, quarantines mean absolutely nothing unless everyone in the world buys into quarantines and self containment. Cities will be able to temporarily "flatten the curve" and even have a descending cycle, but it will inevitably rise again because you're trying to catch a school of minnows in the ocean with a guppy net.

If you studied the Spanish flu, they were able to lower the infection rate at first, but it also flared up again later in the year. That's all we're doing right now.
 

Techster

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I do not want to scare people. We need to be calm. However, I have several loved ones on the staff at Piedmont here in Atlanta. They are already overwhelmed. And many of the patients are a lot younger than you’d expect. We need to take this thing seriously and stay home and do our part.

I have friends at the CDC and Emory. The numbers that are being reported are not accurate...there are far more people they suspect have the virus than is being reported, a large part of that is they don't have enough tests to confirm, and they don't have a lot of test results back. For every one person they can identify as "positive" there's probably another 5-10 people who probably have it.
 

JacketRacket

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Cities and states shutting down doesn't do any good right now. If the strategy is self containment so virus runs its course, then it will need 100% cooperation across the United States. Short of that, it does singular cities no good because a positive carrier can still come in and the spread starts all over again. Here are the things that need to happen:

1. 100% testing to identify who has the virus and who doesn't and make the ones that are positive self contain for 14-21 days and retest afterwards to make sure they are "clean". There's a reason why South Korea emphasized testing on a broad scale as soon as they identified a carrier. They also did contamination tracing with all positive carriers to see who else could have been infected.

2. 100% self containment in all cities across the United States (see paragraph intro). Will also require shutting down the borders until a high percentage of the world population is infection free. This is probably the one that does the most damage to not only our economy, but the world's economy.

These are other options that are the "nuclear scenario"

1. Let the virus run its course and deal with the consequences. Right now, the highest guarantee of immunity from the virus is to catch it and deal with it. Of course, the "herd immunization" theory would lead to deaths on a massive scale...is the world willing to live with that? Can the world deal and all the hospitals deal with the fallout?

2. Quarantine the elderly, the immuno compromised, the sick, and the children. Let everyone else catch it on purpose and let the virus run its course. Of course, there's a lot of fallout here as the scenario above, but less than the first one (in theory).

Short of someone finding a magic bullet (the cure), there are no easy answers. Given how many people there are in the world, quarantines mean absolutely nothing unless everyone in the world buys into quarantines and self containment. Cities will be able to temporarily "flatten the curve" and even have a descending cycle, but it will inevitably rise again because you're trying to catch a school of minnows in the ocean with a guppy net.

If you studied the Spanish flu, they were able to lower the infection rate at first, but it also flared up again later in the year. That's all we're doing right now.
That's not the strategy. The strategy is to to limit the rate of new infections so that hospitals don't get overrun by an initial burst of people all having complications at the same time. Shutting things down cause people are too selfish to self-quarantine when they can is not a bad way to accomplish this.
 

Techster

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That's not the strategy. The strategy is to to limit the rate of new infections so that hospitals don't get overrun by an initial burst of people all having complications at the same time. Shutting things down cause people are too selfish to self-quarantine when they can is not a bad way to accomplish this.

Oh, I understand, and agree with, the thought behind quarantining...you haven't been paying attention to my posts in this thread LOL (laughing at myself).

What I'm saying is we're just putting our fingers in a leaking dam right now.
 

JacketRacket

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Oh, I understand, and agree with, the thought behind quarantining...you haven't been paying attention to my posts in this thread LOL (laughing at myself).

What I'm saying is we're just putting our fingers in a leaking dam right now.

Oh, lol. There's too many to keep track of! This thread is the longest and fastest growing I've ever seen. Yeah, this ain't ending anytime soon. The people who are expecting this to be over in two weeks are in for a rude awakening.
 

Milwaukee

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Oh, lol. There's too many to keep track of! This thread is the longest and fastest growing I've ever seen. Yeah, this ain't ending anytime soon. The people who are expecting this to be over in two weeks are in for a rude awakening.

The sky is FALLING!!!!

I worked today, visited customers (under strict guidelines), and had Chili’s Curbside with about 4 WhiteClaws. The only thing the China Virus is hurting us with is eliminating sports. Soccer was in the Round of 16 of Champions League when this started (it’s the SuperBowl of Euro soccer).
Other than that, us real dudes will take 8 more weeks of this no prob.
 

Milwaukee

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Lmao
273EBA71-A713-4724-B588-C7EAE12D1F9B.jpeg
 

stech81

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The sky is FALLING!!!!

I worked today, visited customers (under strict guidelines), and had Chili’s Curbside with about 4 WhiteClaws. The only thing the China Virus is hurting us with is eliminating sports. Soccer was in the Round of 16 of Champions League when this started (it’s the SuperBowl of Euro soccer).
Other than that, us real dudes will take 8 more weeks of this no prob.
Do you really care about anyone other than you ?
 
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