Coronavirus Thread

[Techster]

Oh man...see, when it comes to getting out of doing work, kids all over the world are the same:

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Oh man...see, when it comes to getting out of doing work, kids all over the world are the same:

HA HA HA HA HA HA!

 

[Deleted member 2897]

No comment. Just read. For some reason I heard Soul Asylum's "Runaway Train" as I read this:

I can’t read without a subscription - can you post any summary info? I’m confused about this idea that more test kits would have changed anything, or are even a problem. From the beginning, anybody who thought they might have been exposed, even with no symptoms, was to quarantine for 14 days. Isn’t that the same thing that would have happened had they tested? Also, I live in little South Carolina, and we can test hundreds of people a day according to DHEC (our state department of health). We don’t need to, but we can. I wonder why other states can’t. I recognize these are ignorant questions, because I haven’t read the article. Congress has been briefed for a couple months and had no pushback. The CDC and NIH hasn’t been saying they needed more test kits until like 2 weeks ago, but that seems to have been fixed. Per capita, countries that even have literally drive thru test centers like Germany have significantly higher ramps and numbers. I don’t see any difference in trend lines.

 

[YellowJacketFan2018]

It sounds like Tampa,Florida may cancel the WWE event Wrestlemania 36 that takes place on April 5th because of the Coronavirus.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

No comment. Just read. For some reason I heard Soul Asylum's "Runaway Train" as I read this:

Well, in searching around to try and find this article on another site so I can read it, I ran across another worry - that our testing is ramping up faster than RNA extraction kits and reagents that are used in the test kids can be produced...and so once we start testing thousands per day (we might be there today actually), we'll run through the supplies the kits depend on and then hit another bottleneck.

 

[RonJohn]

I can’t read without a subscription - can you post any summary info? I’m confused about this idea that more test kits would have changed anything, or are even a problem. From the beginning, anybody who thought they might have been exposed, even with no symptoms, was to quarantine for 14 days. Isn’t that the same thing that would have happened had they tested? Also, I live in little South Carolina, and we can test hundreds of people a day according to DHEC (our state department of health). We don’t need to, but we can. I wonder why other states can’t. I recognize these are ignorant questions, because I haven’t read the article. Congress has been briefed for a couple months and had no pushback. The CDC and NIH hasn’t been saying they needed more test kits until like 2 weeks ago, but that seems to have been fixed. Per capita, countries that even have literally drive thru test centers like Germany have significantly higher ramps and numbers. I don’t see any difference in trend lines.

What is the definition of "needs"? I don't believe that is every person that a doctor believes should be tested. In Georgia last week a woman with severe flu symptoms tested negative for the flu. The doctors requested a test for this virus and were denied. She returned to the hospital a day or two later and was admitted because her symptoms were severe enough to need hospitalization. The doctor's request was denied yet again. He had to petition to get an admitted patient with severe flu like symptoms tested.

If people with even mild flu like symptoms had been tested in the last few weeks, there would likely have been many more people isolated. That might have slowed down the spread, but it isn't guaranteed that it would have.

Something that likely would have slowed down the spread and still will is for news organizations and people to stop concentrating on inaccurate data and political quibbling. Instead they should concentrate on telling people to wash/sanitize their hands, not touch their face, stay away from sick people, and stay home if they are sick. That should have been the message every 15 minutes on the news two weeks ago. That should be the message on the news every 15 minutes today. It won't be. The news will concentrate on bogus numbers and political drama.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

What is the definition of "needs"? I don't believe that is every person that a doctor believes should be tested. In Georgia last week a woman with severe flu symptoms tested negative for the flu. The doctors requested a test for this virus and were denied. She returned to the hospital a day or two later and was admitted because her symptoms were severe enough to need hospitalization. The doctor's request was denied yet again. He had to petition to get an admitted patient with severe flu like symptoms tested.

If people with even mild flu like symptoms had been tested in the last few weeks, there would likely have been many more people isolated. That might have slowed down the spread, but it isn't guaranteed that it would have.

Something that likely would have slowed down the spread and still will is for news organizations and people to stop concentrating on inaccurate data and political quibbling. Instead they should concentrate on telling people to wash/sanitize their hands, not touch their face, stay away from sick people, and stay home if they are sick. That should have been the message every 15 minutes on the news two weeks ago. That should be the message on the news every 15 minutes today. It won't be. The news will concentrate on bogus numbers and political drama.

If that patient wasn't quarantined, that is malpractice on behalf of the healthcare professionals. For more than a month, anybody who has a reason to believe they may have been exposed to the virus even without symptoms was supposed to have self-quarantined. Anybody with actual symptoms was too, which is also what you're supposed to do even if you just have the regular flu.

 

[RonJohn]

If that patient wasn't quarantined, that is malpractice on behalf of the healthcare professionals. For more than a month, anybody who has a reason to believe they may have been exposed to the virus even without symptoms was supposed to have self-quarantined. Anybody with actual symptoms was too, which is also what you're supposed to do even if you just have the regular flu.

According to the state health officials and CDC she had not been exposed to the virus. She did not meet the travel guidelines required in order to be tested. I haven't seen any articles that described what she was doing, but I don't expect she was out in the public. Here symptoms were severe the first time she went to the hospital, and were severe enough to be admitted when she returned. I expect, although I don't know, that she was travelling from the hospital to her home so she could get in the bed. Thus was self-quarantined.

She had severe symptoms. Then she got worse and was severe enough to be admitted. Since she had not traveled to a virus hot spot, and had not been around someone she knew to be infected, she did not meet the guidelines. How many more people with mild symptoms were not tested even though a doctor thought it to be appropriate? How many people without with very mild symptoms who didn't even realize they were sick have spread the virus? My push back is that I would say that a person with sever flu symptoms who tests negative for the flu "needs" to be tested regardless of travel or proximity to known cases. I would say that a person with mild flu symptoms who tests negative for the flu "needs" to be tested also. There may not be more than a couple of hundred newly diagnosed cases a day in South Carolina, but I would imagine that there are several hundred cases a day of people who "need" to be tested based on my definition in this paragraph.

EDIT: That has a lot to do with my statements about numbers not being accurate. Since people who didn't meet a strict guideline were not tested, it is likely that there are tens of thousands of people in the U.S. who are infected. It is possible, though not probable, that there are over a hundred thousand people in the U.S. who are infected. The numbers of "newly infected" people would be more accurately described as "newly diagnosed". There is no way of knowing whether the ramp up is because of new infections or more abundant testing. Also, the current mortality rate is about 3% in the U.S. If the number of infected is actually 20,000 instead of 1,000, then the mortality rate is 0.15%. If the number of infected is actually 100,000, then the mortality rate is 0.03%. If the number actually is 1,000 and more people die, then the mortality rate could be 10%. At this point we don't have a clue what the numbers are because the numbers are nowhere near accurate.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

According to the state health officials and CDC she had not been exposed to the virus. She did not meet the travel guidelines required in order to be tested. I haven't seen any articles that described what she was doing, but I don't expect she was out in the public. Here symptoms were severe the first time she went to the hospital, and were severe enough to be admitted when she returned. I expect, although I don't know, that she was travelling from the hospital to her home so she could get in the bed. Thus was self-quarantined.

She had severe symptoms. Then she got worse and was severe enough to be admitted. Since she had not traveled to a virus hot spot, and had not been around someone she knew to be infected, she did not meet the guidelines. How many more people with mild symptoms were not tested even though a doctor thought it to be appropriate? How many people without with very mild symptoms who didn't even realize they were sick have spread the virus? My push back is that I would say that a person with sever flu symptoms who tests negative for the flu "needs" to be tested regardless of travel or proximity to known cases. I would say that a person with mild flu symptoms who tests negative for the flu "needs" to be tested also. There may not be more than a couple of hundred newly diagnosed cases a day in South Carolina, but I would imagine that there are several hundred cases a day of people who "need" to be tested based on my definition in this paragraph.

Yea, I mean don't get me wrong - ideally, anybody who might need to be tested should be able to be tested. But in the meantime, if people are sick of anything similar to the flu, if they're going about their daily lives, that's on them and the healthcare professionals. I don't know what difference a positive test would do. In both cases, they should still be self-quarantining and all healthcare professionals should be directing that and protecting themselves while treating people with these symptoms. If I'm sick with something like the flu and I refuse to change my behavior unless some test result tells me what particular type of flu I have, that's just insane to me.

 

[RonJohn]

Yea, I mean don't get me wrong - ideally, anybody who might need to be tested should be able to be tested. But in the meantime, if people are sick of anything similar to the flu, if they're going about their daily lives, that's on them and the healthcare professionals. I don't know what difference a positive test would do. In both cases, they should still be self-quarantining and all healthcare professionals should be directing that and protecting themselves while treating people with these symptoms. If I'm sick with something like the flu and I refuse to change my behavior unless some test result tells me what particular type of flu I have, that's just insane to me.

From my post above:

If people with even mild flu like symptoms had been tested in the last few weeks, there would likely have been many more people isolated. That might have slowed down the spread, but it isn't guaranteed that it would have.

Should everyone with mild flu symptoms isolate themselves for 2 weeks? Allergies might cause flu like symptoms. A day of hard exercise and some bad food might cause flu like symptoms. At what point does a person isolate themselves? Two flu like symptoms? Three? Two flu like symptoms and you meet a number on the pain chart? Any symptom? If you have a sore throat you must isolate for two weeks? A slight fever and you must isolate for two weeks? Some body aches and you must isolate for two weeks?

It is easy to say if you return from travel to a highly infected area or were around an infected person that you should quarantine. It is easy to say if you have severe flu symptoms you should quarantine. What should you do if you have mild or almost non-existent symptoms?

 

[jwsavhGT]

At this point, if someone in the U.S. was infected within the last 6-8 weeks, their symptoms were mild, and they have recovered then, in theory, they are immune from getting sick again.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

From my post above:

Should everyone with mild flu symptoms isolate themselves for 2 weeks? Allergies might cause flu like symptoms. A day of hard exercise and some bad food might cause flu like symptoms. At what point does a person isolate themselves? Two flu like symptoms? Three? Two flu like symptoms and you meet a number on the pain chart? Any symptom? If you have a sore throat you must isolate for two weeks? A slight fever and you must isolate for two weeks? Some body aches and you must isolate for two weeks?

It is easy to say if you return from travel to a highly infected area or were around an infected person that you should quarantine. It is easy to say if you have severe flu symptoms you should quarantine. What should you do if you have mild or almost non-existent symptoms?

If you have mild or non-existent symptoms, you wouldn't get tested anyway. But the short answer is yes, what the medical community has stated for quite some time is that you should self-quarantine out of abundance of caution if you are either showing symptoms or even if you aren't if you came in contact with people who had it or traveled to a place that had it. Tons of people didn't follow that advice and here we are.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

If you have mild or non-existent symptoms, you wouldn't get tested anyway. But the short answer is yes, what the medical community has stated for quite some time is that you should self-quarantine out of abundance of caution if you are either showing symptoms or even if you aren't if you came in contact with people who had it or traveled to a place that had it. Tons of people didn't follow that advice and here we are.

For example, the New Rochelle hotspot originated from a lawyer who had been sick for over a month before going to the hospital. All the while he was showing symptoms (respiratory distress), he kept traveling on mass transit, going to synagogue, and so on. His taxi driver who took him to the hospital even tested positive, as did every member of his immediate family. He is 50 years old and currently in critical condition. Late January and most of February, he was all over the place while sick and again, showing the key symptoms of Covid-19 - respiratory distress. Didn't go to the doctor, didn't discuss his symptoms with health professionals, didn't ask to get tested - nothing.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

As far as I know Dr. Drew is not a Trump supporter or apologist, although he did manage to get himself fired from CNN for questioning Hillary's health in 2016 (wonder what he has to say about Biden now....LOL). And note that this interview was not made by (GASP!!!) Fox News, but by CBS News. That being said, this is a good interview with Dr. Drew about the Corona virus and the media ---

 

[ramblinwreckguru]

From my post above:

Should everyone with mild flu symptoms isolate themselves for 2 weeks? Allergies might cause flu like symptoms. A day of hard exercise and some bad food might cause flu like symptoms. At what point does a person isolate themselves? Two flu like symptoms? Three? Two flu like symptoms and you meet a number on the pain chart? Any symptom? If you have a sore throat you must isolate for two weeks? A slight fever and you must isolate for two weeks? Some body aches and you must isolate for two weeks?

It is easy to say if you return from travel to a highly infected area or were around an infected person that you should quarantine. It is easy to say if you have severe flu symptoms you should quarantine. What should you do if you have mild or almost non-existent symptoms?

I think the formula also brings into question how many have died while carrying COVID-19 and were not tested either before or after death. My father wasn't feeling well on Valentine's Day and didn't feel like going out to dinner with my wife and I. He did have underlying health issues with his heart and lungs, but seemed to be improving each day since he came home from the hospital in mid December. Sadly, he suddenly passed away in his chair while we out at dinner that night, and as far as I know, the Coroner ran no tests or investigations to look into cause of death after he left with him. He had just turned 72, and I keep wondering if they should have tested him for the COVID-19 virus after his death. However, if we don't even have enough test kits for the living, I wouldn't think that doctors would spend tests on those already passed away.

 

[jwsavhGT]

I think the formula also brings into question how many have died while carrying COVID-19 and were not tested either before or after death. My father wasn't feeling well on Valentine's Day and didn't feel like going out to dinner with my wife and I. He did have underlying health issues with his heart and lungs, but seemed to be improving each day since he came home from the hospital in mid December. Sadly, he suddenly passed away in his chair while we out at dinner that night, and as far as I know, the Coroner ran no tests or investigations to look into cause of death after he left with him. He had just turned 72, and I keep wondering if they should have tested him for the COVID-19 virus after his death. However, if we don't even have enough test kits for the living, I wouldn't think that doctors would spend tests on those already passed away.

I'm sorry for your loss.

 

[GT_EE78]

5 new cases in Georgia today
https://dph.georgia.gov/press-relea...w-presumptive-positive-covid-19-cases-georgia

 

[RonJohn]

If you have mild or non-existent symptoms, you wouldn't get tested anyway. But the short answer is yes, what the medical community has stated for quite some time is that you should self-quarantine out of abundance of caution if you are either showing symptoms or even if you aren't if you came in contact with people who had it or traveled to a place that had it. Tons of people didn't follow that advice and here we are.

OK, I saw the next post about someone with stronger symptoms that continued to infect the public. However, that doesn't answer the question about what level of symptoms is enough to quarantine. If my throat hurts, likely because of seasonal allergies, should I self-quarantine? What about if the sore throat causes me to cough ten time per day? What about if I cough 10 times per hour? What if I cough 10 times per minute?

Allergies can cause several flu symptoms and at least one of the COVID-19 symptoms. Does someone with pollen allergies self-quarantine until mid-late fall since they will always have a cough and can't tell if the allergy cough is masking a very mild COVID-19 infection?

You might think I am being flippant, but I am not. "Symptoms" does not describe well enough when someone should self-quarantine. It is blatantly obvious in cases where a person has a fever, cough, and difficulty breathing, which is the example you provided. It is not obvious in mild, especially very mild cases. There are reports of even asymptomatic people spreading the virus.

 

[Techster]

 

[Deleted member 2897]

OK, I saw the next post about someone with stronger symptoms that continued to infect the public. However, that doesn't answer the question about what level of symptoms is enough to quarantine. If my throat hurts, likely because of seasonal allergies, should I self-quarantine? What about if the sore throat causes me to cough ten time per day? What about if I cough 10 times per hour? What if I cough 10 times per minute?

Allergies can cause several flu symptoms and at least one of the COVID-19 symptoms. Does someone with pollen allergies self-quarantine until mid-late fall since they will always have a cough and can't tell if the allergy cough is masking a very mild COVID-19 infection?

You might think I am being flippant, but I am not. "Symptoms" does not describe well enough when someone should self-quarantine. It is blatantly obvious in cases where a person has a fever, cough, and difficulty breathing, which is the example you provided. It is not obvious in mild, especially very mild cases. There are reports of even asymptomatic people spreading the virus.

I absolutely do not think you're being flippant. You're asking genuinely good questions and giving good illustrations for why we are where we are, along with nearly every other country. You can literally go through a drive-thru in Germany and get tested, but they're blowing up - near 0 to 2000 positive tests in 2 weeks. They just announced they expect 70% of the country to get infected by the virus. Its the nature of being free societies. The only way to have prevented what we are going through is to shut down all international travel while the rest of the world runs the virus through. We really can't do that.