Coronavirus Thread

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takethepoints

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Supersizethatorder-mutt said:
But I thought that the UK's health system was the best in the world? HAHAHAHA
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Who in Heavens name told you that? It's better then ours on almost every indicator (who isn't?), but it's a long way from the best. I'd nominate France or Germany for that.

Fun fact: the French charge everybody who goes to the doctor about F100 right up front, no matter what's wrong with them; money they have to pay out of private funds. They do this because they know their countrymen are notorious hypochondriacs and stingy too boot. They figure they can get some people to quit coming to the doctor to complain about non-existent illnesses by docking them the minute they walk through the door. Seems to work.
 
LibertyTurns

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US is number 10 in medical tourism. The reason we’re not the destination of choice: Cost- Malpractice insurance, doctors pay (again driven up by malpractice insurance) and overhead (bureaucracy & regulations). Nobody flocks to those awesome places to get care like Germany, France, UK, Switzerland, Sweden, Canada, Japan, etc is because they’re neither cheap nor good.

https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(18)30620-X/fulltext
 
Supersizethatorder-mutt

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takethepoints said:
Who in Heavens name told you that? It's better then ours on almost every indicator (who isn't?), but it's a long way from the best. I'd nominate France or Germany for that.

Fun fact: the French charge everybody who goes to the doctor about F100 right up front, no matter what's wrong with them; money they have to pay out of private funds. They do this because they know their countrymen are notorious hypochondriacs and stingy too boot. They figure they can get some people to quit coming to the doctor to complain about non-existent illnesses by docking them the minute they walk through the door. Seems to work.
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How do they charge francs, when their currency is euros? Sounds like a scam to me.
 
Lotta Booze

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LibertyTurns said:
US is number 10 in medical tourism. The reason we’re not the destination of choice: Cost- Malpractice insurance, doctors pay (again driven up by malpractice insurance) and overhead (bureaucracy & regulations). Nobody flocks to those awesome places to get care like Germany, France, UK, Switzerland, Sweden, Canada, Japan, etc is because they’re neither cheap nor good.

https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(18)30620-X/fulltext
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https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/14/rand-paul-canada-surgery-neighbor-attack-1099485
 
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Lotta Juice said:
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/14/rand-paul-canada-surgery-neighbor-attack-1099485
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I’ll quote the spokesman of the hospital Rand Paul went to:

This is a PRIVATE, world renowned hospital SEPARATE from any system...

This is not the same kind of care your average Canadian avoids when they run south of the border to seek care here. It appears the only ones able to figure out Canadians can’t wait for medical care & are coming here in higher numbers are Americans trying to ram socialized medicine down our throats.

https://torontosun.com/news/nationa...e-the-country-for-health-care-says-new-report

Canada has a high cost, lower mediocre performance. You can read the details here:

https://www.heritage.org/health-care-reform/report/lessons-the-canadian-health-care-system
 
Lotta Booze

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LibertyTurns

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bwelbo said:
Hilarious - the private hospital in Canada outside their health system is the one everyone flocks to, LOL.
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@Lotta Juice You’re correct & I’m mistaken. There’s a private hospital not available to the average Canadian therefore you’ve certainly demonstrated the awesomeness of socialized healthcare as well as the superiority of the Canadian system. Well done, Sir!
 
Lotta Booze

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I didn't bring up anything about socialized medicine or anything of the sort Lib, as I believe that would be against the rules of the Lounge. I just posted a link that seemed to refute your claim that nobody goes to Canada for healthcare when a US Senator seemed to eschew the options provided to him by the US healthcare in favor of a hospital in Canada. You and bwelbo then clarified that while you may be touting the entirety of the US healthcare (whether average Americans have access to all of it or not) you are only talking about part of the Canadian healthcare system. That doesn't seem to me to be a good faith argument, or comparing apples to apples, but not surprising.

Speaking of faith, I've got an Easter dinner screaming my name. Happy Easter y'all
 

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Lotta Juice said:
I didn't bring up anything about socialized medicine or anything of the sort Lib, as I believe that would be against the rules of the Lounge. I just posted a link that seemed to refute your claim that nobody goes to Canada for healthcare when a US Senator seemed to eschew the options provided to him by the US healthcare in favor of a hospital in Canada. You and bwelbo then clarified that while you may be touting the entirety of the US healthcare (whether average Americans have access to all of it or not) you are only talking about part of the Canadian healthcare system. That doesn't seem to me to be a good faith argument, or comparing apples to apples, but not surprising.

Speaking of faith, I've got an Easter dinner screaming my name. Happy Easter y'all
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LOL. I wasn’t all-in on some political argument either. All I said was that it’s false to say almost every other country’s healthcare is better than ours. That’s demonstrably false.
 

takethepoints

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bwelbo said:
LOL. I wasn’t all-in on some political argument either. All I said was that it’s false to say almost every other country’s healthcare is better than ours. That’s demonstrably false.
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As in, say, this study?:

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/pu...20/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019

I mean you can twist on this hook as long as you want, but our healthcare system costs more and delivers worse results then others in comparably developed countries. Here's one with the two big indicators, infant mortality and life expectancy:

https://www.americashealthrankings....nual-report/findings-international-comparison

It is revealing, as I have pointed out here before, that most of the systems that do a worse job then we do on the Big Two have the same kind of decentralized private - public mishmash we do. The infant mortality ratings are a national disgrace, btw.

Bottom line = healthcare in the US is ok - not world beating, but ok - for the wealthy. It sucks big time in terms of cost/benefit analysis and delivery for the whole population. I expect this to change after November. We won't be world beaters with the reforms we can get through Congress, but we'll be on the way to a system that actually, you know, delivers.
 
Supersizethatorder-mutt

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takethepoints said:
As in, say, this study?:

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/pu...20/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019

I mean you can twist on this hook as long as you want, but our healthcare system costs more and delivers worse results then others in comparably developed countries. Here's one with the two big indicators, infant mortality and life expectancy:

https://www.americashealthrankings....nual-report/findings-international-comparison

It is revealing, as I have pointed out here before, that most of the systems that do a worse job then we do on the Big Two have the same kind of decentralized private - public mishmash we do. The infant mortality ratings are a national disgrace, btw.

Bottom line = healthcare in the US is ok - not world beating, but ok - for the wealthy. It sucks big time in terms of cost/benefit analysis and delivery for the whole population. I expect this to change after November. We won't be world beaters with the reforms we can get through Congress, but we'll be on the way to a system that actually, you know, delivers.
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I don't have any actual stats to disagree with or agree with the statements made in those links, nor do I have any personal knowledge of what might be or have been the comparison of the US and other countries. But what I do have is a certain measure of personal experience. I am not wealthy, and my very good health insurance is part of my pension package, so I am in pretty good shape. I have never had to wait on appointments or various minor (for the most part) surgical procedures or tests. But my parents, also not wealthy, had to pay for their health insurance, since my dad was self-employed, and yet they didn't go broke nor go into any kind of astronomical debt, nor have to wait at all for my mom to have an artificial valve placed in her heart in the mid '70s. I don't remember the exact year, but I know it was prior to 1978 when my dad retired. Based on their experience, as well as my own with spinal surgery last year, as well as several minor out-patient surgical procedures, I may not have comparisons to what other countries may offer, but I definitely have, nor I'm sure did my parents, any complaints.
 

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takethepoints said:
As in, say, this study?:

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/pu...20/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2019

I mean you can twist on this hook as long as you want, but our healthcare system costs more and delivers worse results then others in comparably developed countries. Here's one with the two big indicators, infant mortality and life expectancy:

https://www.americashealthrankings....nual-report/findings-international-comparison

It is revealing, as I have pointed out here before, that most of the systems that do a worse job then we do on the Big Two have the same kind of decentralized private - public mishmash we do. The infant mortality ratings are a national disgrace, btw.

Bottom line = healthcare in the US is ok - not world beating, but ok - for the wealthy. It sucks big time in terms of cost/benefit analysis and delivery for the whole population. I expect this to change after November. We won't be world beaters with the reforms we can get through Congress, but we'll be on the way to a system that actually, you know, delivers.
Click to expand...

Life expectancy and infant mortality are both highly influenced by us being the fastest country in the world. We get sick a damned hell of a lot. Look at things like cancer outcomes. There are talented nurses, doctors, and research scientists all over the world. But I would put the talent of ours up against anybody. If you’re not fat, you’re not going to spend half as much in your life time and you’ll live longer. Yes we are a fat freaking country. I’ll give you that. But that has nothing to do with the quality of our healthcare. The more people we throw onto Medicaid (the big outcome of the ACA), the worse it gets. Medicaid outcomes are worse than having no insurance at all. That’s obnoxious LOL. So we’ve got Medicaid that sucks hugely on one end, and Medicare which pilfers the treasury on the other, LOL. See the trend? Oh but let’s let them have yet another chance to keep “fixing” what they keep messing up LOL.

Now let’s get back to the Coronavirus.
 
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