Coronavirus Thread

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GTRX7 said:
Like the theoretical idea of communism working great, I agree that, theoretically, "transparency and honestly is always the best option." However, that is necessarily based on the assumptions that the recipients of such information are both rational and will act in the interest of the greater good. Again, just look at the supplies of toilet paper and cleaning materials. People are not responsible, nor do they typically act for the greater good. Medical workers who work with COVID patients daily are still in dire need of medical supplies. They are not only among the very highest risk population due to exposure, but are also a critical population to stay healthy to ensure that we are able to effectively fight the impact of the virus.

While I am not saying it would have been 100% the right choice, I also cannot say it would have been the wrong choice if the CDC delayed recommending that everyone where a mask to ensure that the scarce supplies went to medical personnel first. This is especially true because not all masks are equally effective and medical personnel, due to repetitive exposure, should not be wearing disposable masks more than once.

Here is a story from March 3rd about mask hoarding, where the WHO said it is leading to "sever and increasing disruption" to the global supply chain (LINK), and story from yesterday about mask hoarding in the US (LINK).
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I look at it this way. If the CDC said we probably should wear masks in the public, but DO NOT buy them as the healthcare workers wear them, and then there was a shortage, they could at least state that they explained and shared the science and its not their fault. If they were intentionally trying to save supplies and obfuscating the science, now they're going to have to explain why we have a huge outbreak and they lied to the country about it.
 
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Supersizethatorder-mutt said:
N95 masks are not generally available to the public, and ordinary masks only prevent spread from within the mask, not from outside the mask. And he is not the only one to say that, so it's not bogus information.
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They have been readily available in any hardware store for decades(1972 actually). That is 100% FALSE and well proven in many studies(only prevent spread from within the mask)
 
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Supersizethatorder-mutt said:
They wear N95 masks, just like the one my doctor was wearing yesterday. THOSE are effective; others are not.
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100% FALSE
upload_2020-4-3_10-51-15.jpeg
 
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bwelbo said:
I look at it this way. If the CDC said we probably should wear masks in the public, but DO NOT buy them as the healthcare workers wear them, and then there was a shortage, they could at least state that they explained and shared the science and its not their fault. If they were intentionally trying to save supplies and obfuscating the science, now they're going to have to explain why we have a huge outbreak and they lied to the country about it.
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I would agree that it was appropriate to prioritze things for the healthcare workers but they should have been more transparent with the public.
China,S Korea,Japan,Taiwan,Singapore all knew this from the get go. I've already posted info for DIY masks and cleaning
 
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bwelbo said:
I look at it this way. If the CDC said we probably should wear masks in the public, but DO NOT buy them as the healthcare workers wear them, and then there was a shortage, they could at least state that they explained and shared the science and its not their fault. If they were intentionally trying to save supplies and obfuscating the science, now they're going to have to explain why we have a huge outbreak and they lied to the country about it.
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So, better that more people potentially die, but at least the CDC doesn't have to later explain why it obfuscated information? I am just trying to make sure you either agree with that conclusion, or you disagree that would have been the result.
 
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Supersizethatorder-mutt said:
Just because they wore them for that purpose, is there any proof that they achieved that purpose? I doubt there is significant and substantial evidence in either direction.
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Link died so i'll post entire article Virus nurses were abt 80% not infected. Your chances (with mask) are better than that in a gro store obviously.
N95 is better for aerosol
no mask is perfect.none completely prevent. all help by reducing the chances of a particle getting thru.
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Medical News Today ^ | 04 Oct 2009 | NA

New Study Evaluates Surgical Masks Vs. N95 Respirators For Preventing Influenza Among Health Care Workers

Surgical masks appear to be no worse than, and nearly as effective as N95 respirators in preventing influenza in health care workers, according to a study released early online today by JAMA. The study was posted online ahead of print because of its public health implications. It will be published in the November 4 issue of JAMA.

Influenza is the most important cause of medically attended acute respiratory illness worldwide and the authors write there is heightened concern this year because of the influenza pandemic due to the H1N1 virus. "Data about the effectiveness of the surgical mask compared with the N95 respirator for protecting health care workers against influenza are sparse," the authors provide as background information in the article. "Given the likelihood that N95 respirators will be in short supply during a pandemic and not available in many countries, knowing the effectiveness of the surgical mask is of public health importance."

Mark Loeb, M.D., M.Sc., from McMaster University, Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, and colleagues conducted a randomized controlled trial of 446 nurses in eight Ontario hospitals to compare the surgical mask with the N95 respirator in protecting health care workers against influenza. The nurses were randomized into two groups: 225 were assigned to receive surgical masks and 221 were assigned to receive the fitted N95 respirator which they were to wear when caring for patients with febrile (fever) respiratory illness. The primary outcome of the study was laboratory-confirmed influenza. Effectiveness of the surgical mask was assessed as non-inferiority of the surgical mask compared with the N95 respirator.

Between September 23, 2008 and December 8, 2008, "influenza infection occurred in 50 nurses (23.6 percent) in the surgical mask group and in 48 (22.9 percent) in the N95 respirator group (absolute risk difference -0.73 percent)," indicating non-inferiority of the surgical mask the authors report. Even among those nurses who had an increased level of the circulating pandemic 2009 H1N1 influenza strain, non-inferiority was demonstrated between the surgical mask group and the N95 respirator group for the 2009 influenza A(H1N1).

"Our data show that the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza was similar in nurses wearing the surgical mask and those wearing the N95 respirator. Surgical masks had an estimated efficacy within 1 percent of N95 respirators," the authors write. "That is, surgical masks appeared to be no worse, within a prespecified margin, than N95 respirators in preventing influenza."

In conclusion the authors state: "Our findings apply to routine care in the health care setting. They should not be generalized to settings where there is a high risk for aerosolization, such as intubation or bronchoscopy, where use of an N95 respirator would be prudent. In routine health care settings, particularly where the availability of N95 respirators is limited, surgical masks appear to be non-inferior to N95 respirators for protecting health care workers against influenza."
 
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Leaving aside the discussion about masks for a second, have any of you gotten the series of pneumonia shots that are available? They are particularly good for people over 65 and for smokers and heavy drinkers. They obviously will not prevent anyone from getting the Corona virus, but they will considerably decrease, if not eliminate the possibility of the virus morphing into pneumonia, which is, in fact, what most of the nursing home patients have actually died from. If you have not received them (there are 2), then I URGE you to get one.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/pneumococcal-vaccine-schedule#1
 

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GTRX7 said:
So, better that more people potentially die, but at least the CDC doesn't have to later explain why it obfuscated information? I am just trying to make sure you either agree with that conclusion, or you disagree that would have been the result.
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Well, that's kind of what I'm saying, but in the reverse. I'm saying how much worse is the outbreak and spread because we haven't been wearing masks? People in the hospital can't spread it nearly to the extent that someone in the general public can.
 
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Supersizethatorder-mutt said:
They wear N95 masks, just like the one my doctor was wearing yesterday. THOSE are effective; others are not.
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again that's not true, the surgical masks are just "less" effective. below are CDC guidelines circa 2002 for SARS

Do surgical masks provide protection against SARS?
Surgical masks are not designed for use as particulate respirators and do not provide as much protection as an N-95 respirator.
If surgical masks do not protect against airborne diseases, why are surgical masks suggested for use against SARS when no N-95 respirators are available?
Surgical masks are recommended only as a last resort for health care and medical transport workers exposed to SARS patients when no NIOSH-approved respirator equivalent to or greater than the N-95 is available.
> N95 clearly better but see the other link i posted where each was 78% effective for virus Nurses. Don't poopoo the masks
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/topics/respirators/factsheets/respsars.html
 
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RamblinRed said:
Washington Post has the best political reporters in the country and it isn't even close.
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>> Why do you think WaPo and MSNBC deliberately deceived the public in Feb by omitting that a microbiologist had said that this Chinese Virus may have leaked from the Wuhan bioweapons lab?
"Ebright, the Rutgers University molecular biologist, told Beijing-based news outlet Caixin Global in February that while there is “no basis to suspect the virus was engineered,” the available data indicates that the virus’s introduction into human populations could be attributed to either natural causes or to a laboratory mishap.The Washington Post and MSNBC have quoted Ebright saying that theories about the virus being a bioweapon should be “firmly excluded,” but neither outlet included his belief that the possibility that the virus entered the human population through a lab accident “cannot–and should not–be dismissed.”
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The SARS virus escaped twice from the Chinese Institute of Virology in Beijing in 2004, one year after the virus was initially contained.
Another Chinese doctor, Ai Fen, claimed she was silenced by her bosses when she tried to warn about the virus during its early stages. Ai’s whereabouts as of Sunday are currently unknown, according to 60 Minutes Australia, sparking fears that she has been detained.
two Chinese researchers noted in a separate paper in February that the horseshoe bats that are known to carry the nearly-identical viral strain live 600 miles away from Wuhan. The researchers also cited testimonies from nearly 60 people who lived in or visited Wuhan saying that the bat “was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market.”“The killer coronavirus probably originated from a laboratory in Wuhan,” the two Chinese researchers noted in their paper, which was uploaded to Research Gate on Feb. 6.

Sen. Tom Cotton of Arkansas told the DCNF on Wednesday it is wholly appropriate to question whether the coronavirus outbreak originated from labs in Wuhan that were studying coronaviruses.After concealing the virus for many weeks in December and then minimizing its severity for most of January, they then peddle an origin story about the food market in Wuhan.” “Given their dishonesty and the proximity of these labs, which we know were working with coronaviruses, it is only reasonable and responsible for us to ask the question and demand the answers.”
https://dailycaller.com/2020/04/02/...stitute-virology-richard-ebright-shi-zhengli/
 
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bwelbo said:
Well, that's kind of what I'm saying, but in the reverse. I'm saying how much worse is the outbreak and spread because we haven't been wearing masks? People in the hospital can't spread it nearly to the extent that someone in the general public can.
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If we had a sufficient supply of masks for everyone, I would agree. We don't. Therefore, scarce resources must be allocated. If the CDC recommendations have been made with an eye towards allocating those scarce resources to the people that need them the most (healthcare workers), I cannot say that I would consider that to be the wrong decision. And announcing in early March that all people should be wearing masks certainly would have taken those resources away from healthcare workers without any doubt.
 
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Here is a link to the audio of the very revealing interview with a Florida FEMA agent regarding sale of masks by 3M and its distributors. The audio at first is not clear, but give it a few seconds.



I don't personally consider this to be political in nature, just unpleasant facts. But if the mods think it's political then please move it.
 
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