Conference Realignment

[ThatGuy]

Im not sure what you are looking at but USC and UCLA did not announce they were leaving last month (Dec 2023). They announced it in June of 2022.

USC, UCLA approved to move to Big Ten in 2024

USC and UCLA were notified Thursday night that their application to join the Big Ten has been accepted.

www.espn.com

You're right. Typo, 2022, corrected.

 

[CEB]

Depends on your definition of fine. Are we fine now with all the teams here? Our conference champ just went undefeated and our conference got nothing for it. Is that doing fine? Now, remove FSU, UNC, Clemson, Miami, and GT. Sure, there could still be a conference called the ACC but who would watch? And if FSU doesn’t get an invite do you think an undefeated NC State or Wake would? The big 2 are going to keep growing and either vote to have no auto bids or they’ll simply create their own playoff (which is what I believe will happen after the next round of expansion). All this talk of shares and money is being based on today. New contracts and new media companies will enter the scene and change the equation. FSU simply knows they can’t be held hostage until 2036 because that is how you die as the world passes by. Just watch, we will have an awesome 12 team playoff starting next year where the ACC gets 1 invite. It will be a huge success and everyone will benefit except the ACC.

You’re being awfully dramatic! The circumstances of this year have never happened before and will never happen again. Its maddening but irrelevant.
Yes, I am sure there will be years where the ACC is a “one bid league” but the same goes for the B12 and it won’t be an annual thing.
The inequity is that the BIG and SEC will NEVER be one bid leagues, but the ACC won’t be relegated to it either.
If the “split” happens, its not happening without a massive reshuffling that jettisons several current BIG / SEC members. It won’t happen along conference lines. Maybe this is the first elimination but I doubt it.
For what its worth, if big college football completely goes the way of teams full of mercenaries sponsored by “universities,” then “fine” in my book is being part of something else.

 

[Techwood Relict]

They have been trying so hard to be FIRST, that being accurate is of little importance. Especially with Swaim.

 

[forensicbuzz]

No one from the ACC will get a full share from the SEC or B1G until their next TV contract. If Texas and OU had to accept less than a full share, FSU ain't getting one.

They would get the full amount that the current contracts allow without it costing the existing members any revenue.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

You’re being awfully dramatic! The circumstances of this year have never happened before and will never happen again. Its maddening but irrelevant.
Yes, I am sure there will be years where the ACC is a “one bid league” but the same goes for the B12 and it won’t be an annual thing.
The inequity is that the BIG and SEC will NEVER be one bid leagues, but the ACC won’t be relegated to it either.
If the “split” happens, its not happening without a massive reshuffling that jettisons several current BIG / SEC members. It won’t happen along conference lines. Maybe this is the first elimination but I doubt it.
For what its worth, if big college football completely goes the way of teams full of mercenaries sponsored by “universities,” then “fine” in my book is being part of something else.

I’m not being dramatic in the least. I’m sure you’ve seen what has happened in all sports between the SEC/BIG and ACC. It isn’t just football. The ACC has been relegated to a 2nd status league. Our NCAA hoops tournament bids have fallen way off from the past while the SEC’s has risen. Same in baseball. And you say the circumstances for FSU to be left out are unique and won’t happen again. I say this was the culmination of the SEC’s plan over the past 2 decades of media manipulation and control of the process. It’s not going to stop now. The ACC will get 1 invite next year only because it’s in the rules. But just watch. They will either change the rules or simply do what they’ve been doing for decades now, which is manipulate the process to their benefit. A 2nd ACC team isn’t getting an invite. Let me ask this - have any of us in the hundred year history of the sport EVER heard of an injury to a player as any type of basis to change a bowl bid or ranking? This was their 2023 bag of tricks they pulled. They will use anything in the media to ensure they get paid and others don’t. And that is what good conference leadership looks like. The SEC should push for their teams and more money. Our conferences leaders don’t do a thing but take it. It’s going to be obvious over the next 4 years as ACC teams have good years and are left out. Then all of a sudden we’ll have several FSU’s and I’ll be laughing as I cry because GT will probably be one of those teams. We are poised to break out and have a legit season and we’ll be relegated so a Mich St or Oklahoma can get in instead. Then these same folks talking smack because FSU is upset will do the exact same thing and be screaming for us to leave.

 

[Root4GT]

Most non ACC fans would say that the 2 best teams from the ACC were replaced with 4 G5 teams and Pac12 leftovers?

I assume you were ignoring that part and were saying that most non ACC fans would say that the ACC is not on the football radar. With Texas and Oklahoma gone, two Big 12 teams have made it to the playoffs and two ACC teams have made it to the playoffs. Only one of the Big12 teams was a Big12 team when they made the playoffs. The 2024 Big12 has a total of 2 CFP appearances. The ACC has a total of 7 CFP appearances, mostly Clemson.

Better/worse is a subjective measure. The issue I have is that the "measurements" that determine good/bad change every year, and even many times during the year. Too many college football fans fall for the hype instead of trying to think for themselves. You say that people are in denial and are "coping". However, it appears to me that you are one of the people who just go with whatever the popular opinion is at the time. If someone pics measurements that determine a good conference and stick with that measurement, I would at least respect it. People don't do that. OOC wins are super important, until they are not. Bowl wins are "proof", unless the popular conference loses and then they don't matter. This year, people lambasted the ACC because Louisville lost to Kentucky. During the entire season, no team in the SEC had an OOC win against a better team than Louisville. I can't wrap my head around the circular logic: Louisville is a horrific team because they lost to Kentucky, so the SEC is super strong. But, the SEC did not have a single OOC win against a better team than Louisville so why isn't the SEC weak instead of strong? (Popular sentiment would be that it is important when making Louisville look bad, but it is irrelevant when making the SEC look bad.) It is extremely obvious that people simply decide that the SEC is better than everyone else, and then look for whatever measure in that particular year, or even particular week, that "proves" that the SEC is better. The "proofs" change. Last weeks "proof" might not even be valid again this week if it makes the SEC look bad.

I am not trying to bash the SEC. However, the SEC is not made up of 16 NFL caliber teams. With Texas and Oklahoma, they are adding more top teams. However, they still have Vanderbilt. They still have Miss State. Florida hasn't been doing too well. South Carolina hasn't been doing too well. Popular sentiment would say that even if the SEC doesn't have 16 NFL teams, that they do have 16 Alabamas. Is the SEC better than the ACC and the Big12? Probably. Is the SEC better than the Big10? I don't know that I could answer that. However, the difference between the SEC/Big10 and the ACC isn't as large as the difference between the NFL and the SEC. It isn't even as big as the difference between the ACC and an FCS conference.

The difference is the very top teams in the SEC have been better than the very top teams in any other conference for well over a decade. On the National level no one cares about Vanderbilt, Miss St, Arkansas or the other SEC bottom feeders. The same is true for the other P5 conferences. Nationally, no one cares about Indiana, Rutgers or Purdue in the B1G. Same is true in the ACC, Pitt, Cuse, UVA, they have no pulse at the national leb=vel.

Alabama, Georgia, LSU and Auburn have all won National titles since the CFP started in 2014 (6 of 10 titles). The others are Clemson 2x. Ohio State and Michigan. This is where the focus for the majority of college football watchers lies. The perception that the SEC is the best conference is confirmed by for most by these results. It is meaningless to say Duke and Wake beat Vandy.

 

[WreckinGT]

You’re being awfully dramatic! The circumstances of this year have never happened before and will never happen again. Its maddening but irrelevant.
Yes, I am sure there will be years where the ACC is a “one bid league” but the same goes for the B12 and it won’t be an annual thing.
The inequity is that the BIG and SEC will NEVER be one bid leagues, but the ACC won’t be relegated to it either.
If the “split” happens, its not happening without a massive reshuffling that jettisons several current BIG / SEC members. It won’t happen along conference lines. Maybe this is the first elimination but I doubt it.
For what its worth, if big college football completely goes the way of teams full of mercenaries sponsored by “universities,” then “fine” in my book is being part of something else.

It will be a nearly annual thing. In the last 5 years if the 12 team playoffs existed with their current format then the ACC would have gotten a second team in one time. That would have been Pittsburgh in 2021. I highly doubt Pittsburgh would have actually gotten in as well with a loss to Western Michigan on their schedule and a two loss Oklahoma right behind them.

The perception of the ACC is completely in the gutter right now. If you look at what the media perceives as the toughest schedules going into 2024 (https://247sports.com/longformartic...-toughest-schedules-in-2024-ranked-225439838/) you will only see one team from the ACC or the Big 12. That team is us. Why are we that high? We have two tough out of conference games. Not many teams will have that luxury. There are basically two paths for an ACC team to make the playoffs now. Win the conference, or come close to winning the conference while beating multiple big name teams out of conference. The latter is not going to happen often.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I’m not being dramatic in the least. I’m sure you’ve seen what has happened in all sports between the SEC/BIG and ACC. It isn’t just football. The ACC has been relegated to a 2nd status league. Our NCAA hoops tournament bids have fallen way off from the past while the SEC’s has risen. Same in baseball. And you say the circumstances for FSU to be left out are unique and won’t happen again. I say this was the culmination of the SEC’s plan over the past 2 decades of media manipulation and control of the process. It’s not going to stop now. The ACC will get 1 invite next year only because it’s in the rules. But just watch. They will either change the rules or simply do what they’ve been doing for decades now, which is manipulate the process to their benefit. A 2nd ACC team isn’t getting an invite. Let me ask this - have any of us in the hundred year history of the sport EVER heard of an injury to a player as any type of basis to change a bowl bid or ranking? This was their 2023 bag of tricks they pulled. They will use anything in the media to ensure they get paid and others don’t. And that is what good conference leadership looks like. The SEC should push for their teams and more money. Our conferences leaders don’t do a thing but take it. It’s going to be obvious over the next 4 years as ACC teams have good years and are left out. Then all of a sudden we’ll have several FSU’s and I’ll be laughing as I cry because GT will probably be one of those teams. We are poised to break out and have a legit season and we’ll be relegated so a Mich St or Oklahoma can get in instead. Then these same folks talking smack because FSU is upset will do the exact same thing and be screaming for us to leave.

Sometimes it takes people jumping up and down just to get people to see what’s right in front of them.

The ACC being “down the last few years” in baseball, basketball and football, is a self-fulfilling prophecy. The inverse of the SEC self-fulfilling prophecy when they trumpeted for years that they were a dominant conference.

 

[wrmathis]

Alabama, Georgia, LSU and Auburn have all won National titles since the CFP started in 2014 (6 of 10 titles).

Just a correction, Auburn hasn’t won a CFP or even made it to the CFP at all.
Alabama x3
Georgia x2
LSU x1

 

[Root4GT]

Just a correction, Auburn hasn’t won a CFP or even made it to the CFP at all.
Alabama x3
Georgia x2
LSU x1

Thanks, my mistake - Auburn was in the BCS days!

 

[CEB]

I’m not being dramatic in the least. I’m sure you’ve seen what has happened in all sports between the SEC/BIG and ACC. It isn’t just football. The ACC has been relegated to a 2nd status league. Our NCAA hoops tournament bids have fallen way off from the past while the SEC’s has risen. Same in baseball. And you say the circumstances for FSU to be left out are unique and won’t happen again. I say this was the culmination of the SEC’s plan over the past 2 decades of media manipulation and control of the process. It’s not going to stop now. The ACC will get 1 invite next year only because it’s in the rules. But just watch. They will either change the rules or simply do what they’ve been doing for decades now, which is manipulate the process to their benefit. A 2nd ACC team isn’t getting an invite. Let me ask this - have any of us in the hundred year history of the sport EVER heard of an injury to a player as any type of basis to change a bowl bid or ranking? This was their 2023 bag of tricks they pulled. They will use anything in the media to ensure they get paid and others don’t. And that is what good conference leadership looks like. The SEC should push for their teams and more money. Our conferences leaders don’t do a thing but take it. It’s going to be obvious over the next 4 years as ACC teams have good years and are left out. Then all of a sudden we’ll have several FSU’s and I’ll be laughing as I cry because GT will probably be one of those teams. We are poised to break out and have a legit season and we’ll be relegated so a Mich St or Oklahoma can get in instead. Then these same folks talking smack because FSU is upset will do the exact same thing and be screaming for us to leave.

I don’t disagree at all with the notion that we (ACC) are losing the media / marketing / perception battle. SEC no doubt corners the market in that regard.
I think our only disagreement is that you believe this year was the tipping point and I don’t believe it is… yet… although it seems closer than ever.

Part of the reason the SEC has been successful in cornering the market is because they largely back it up on the field. I have no doubt they will continue to push for a larger share (and its not lost on me that the conference expansion is largely elimination of competition in that effort), but I’m actually hopeful the 12 team playoff proves that there is more parity in college football than they would have us believe.
I know the BIG / SEC will get 2-3 teams and some favorable seeding, but we need to put some winners on the field. We also need conference members believing in what we’re trying to achieve; not subverting it.

 

[CEB]

It will be a nearly annual thing. In the last 5 years if the 12 team playoffs existed with their current format then the ACC would have gotten a second team in one time. That would have been Pittsburgh in 2021. I highly doubt Pittsburgh would have actually gotten in as well with a loss to Western Michigan on their schedule and a two loss Oklahoma right behind them.

The perception of the ACC is completely in the gutter right now. If you look at what the media perceives as the toughest schedules going into 2024 (https://247sports.com/longformartic...-toughest-schedules-in-2024-ranked-225439838/) you will only see one team from the ACC or the Big 12. That team is us. Why are we that high? We have two tough out of conference games. Not many teams will have that luxury. There are basically two paths for an ACC team to make the playoffs now. Win the conference, or come close to winning the conference while beating multiple big name teams out of conference. The latter is not going to happen often.

If we are missing because of self inflicted wounds, I can live with that.
The ACC has been pretty damned bad and there is no denying it. We need some teams to start notching wins. Bottom line.
Hype machine will help, but all the hype in the world won’t make a difference if the performance is bad.
I don’t believe the ACC as a “one bid league” is a foregone conclusion but if we don’t earn it on the field, how can we claim injustice?

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Auburn did make it to the CFPCG but was beaten by FSU.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I don’t disagree at all with the notion that we (ACC) are losing the media / marketing / perception battle. SEC no doubt corners the market in that regard.
I think our only disagreement is that you believe this year was the tipping point and I don’t believe it is… yet… although it seems closer than ever.

Part of the reason the SEC has been successful in cornering the market is because they largely back it up on the field. I have no doubt they will continue to push for a larger share (and its not lost on me that the conference expansion is largely elimination of competition in that effort), but I’m actually hopeful the 12 team playoff proves that there is more parity in college football than they would have us believe.
I know the BIG / SEC will get 2-3 teams and some favorable seeding, but we need to put some winners on the field. We also need conference members believing in what we’re trying to achieve; not subverting it.

The ACC beating the SEC this year head to head, and having an undefeated conference champion, would have been acknowledged by the media if not for the relentless PR avalanche by the SEC for the last several decades. This creates a confirmation bias every time an ACC team loses.

By contrast, Alabama can get destroyed by Texas on their home field, get a miracle / lucky play to beat a lousy Auburn team and no one for a moment doubts Alabama is a good team. But let FSU not beat somebody by “enough points” with a 3rd string QB…..

This perception will take decades to correct but I’ve seen nothing by the ACC to make me optimistic.

 

[Golden Tornadoes]

Auburn did make it to the CFPCG but was beaten by FSU.

Auburn has never made it to the playoffs, much less in the NC game. Auburn lost to FSU to conclude the 2013 football season in the BCS NC game. It was the last BCS NC game ever played before we got the current playoff system.

 

[CEB]

This perception will take decades to correct but I’ve seen nothing by the ACC to make me optimistic.

I think “decades” is a bit overblown, but several years of consistent results will certainly be needed.
On the second part, I agree, I am not optimistic in the messaging from the ACC. If I were running the marketing campaign, I would stop the reactionary sniveling… “no, really, we’re competitive… seriously, we are..”
I’d use the current perception to our advantage. Tell everyone the ACC has been down and tout how it’s changing and the active measures being taken to change it (even if it’s all BS and eyewash). Then lean in hard to every out of conference win. When a couple of marquis wins come (and they will eventually), really double down on ACC football changing the game and challenging the “power structure” created by the media.

 

[stinger78]

The difference is the very top teams in the SEC have been better than the very top teams in any other conference for well over a decade. On the National level no one cares about Vanderbilt, Miss St, Arkansas or the other SEC bottom feeders. The same is true for the other P5 conferences. Nationally, no one cares about Indiana, Rutgers or Purdue in the B1G. Same is true in the ACC, Pitt, Cuse, UVA, they have no pulse at the national leb=vel.

Alabama, Georgia, LSU and Auburn have all won National titles since the CFP started in 2014 (6 of 10 titles). The others are Clemson 2x. Ohio State and Michigan. This is where the focus for the majority of college football watchers lies. The perception that the SEC is the best conference is confirmed by for most by these results. It is meaningless to say Duke and Wake beat Vandy.

I don’t share your conclusion in two levels. First, since 2014, the CFP champ has been SEC 6, ACC 2, B1G 2. However, in 2022 OSU was every bit as good as UGA, and in 2016 Clem was every bit as good as Bama. Prior to that, in the 16 BCS years (1998-2013), you had 9 SEC champs, 2 ACC, 2 B12, 1 B1G, and 1 BE (now ACC). Many were very close games. Even with skewed selection, the ACC was 2nd in both paradigms. Better at the top? Sure, but not overwhelmingly so.

Second, The Narrative is a conference story. Compute P5 OOC for all teams and you’ll see a much more even picture.

 

[ThatGuy]

I don’t share your conclusion in two levels. First, since 2014, the CFP champ has been SEC 6, ACC 2, B1G 2. However, in 2022 OSU was every bit as good as UGA, and in 2016 Clem was every bit as good as Bama. Prior to that, in the 16 BCS years (1998-2013), you had 9 SEC champs, 2 ACC, 2 B12, 1 B1G, and 1 BE (now ACC). Many were very close games. Even with skewed selection, the ACC was 2nd in both paradigms. Better at the top? Sure, but not overwhelmingly so.

Second, The Narrative is a conference story. Compute P5 OOC for all teams and you’ll see a much more even picture.

...and yet many of the posters on this board continue to tout the notion that the "Big 12 is the 3rd best conference."

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Auburn has never made it to the playoffs, much less in the NC game. Auburn lost to FSU to conclude the 2013 football season in the BCS NC game. It was the last BCS NC game ever played before we got the current playoff system.

You're right. It was Jan 2014. I was confusing that with the 2014 CFP...

 

[orientalnc]

I know that Project DI is being discussed with a fair amount of disagreement, but also acquiescence by many Div II and Div III schools. I have strong opinions about it but understand my feelings a very close to irrelevant. Largely, I think that's appropriate. The players and coaches and administrators have more at stake than fans.

Start rant:
If uga and tOSU want to sponsor a minor league professional football team, why not praise them for the effort and buy tickets to the games if you like what you see. But lets get the professionalism out of "college football" now while we don't have roll back everything. I would like to see NIL limited to pay by outside interests for actual activity by players. And it should made independent of the team on which the player participates. The NIL collectives are a perversion. Get rid of them. Paying players to play for your team is the equivalent of the players being employees of the team. I don't think the players want that. I know the colleges don't want that. Make a rule that TV revenue and coaches salaries and team expenses have to come from the college's general fund. No more semi-for-profit athletic associations.
End rant: