Coaching Carousel -- Just Pastner 2019

WrongShadeOfGold

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
358
All the dissing on coach doesn't bother me, but I just plain don't understand it. I havent been this hopeful about the future of Tech basketball for a long, long time.

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Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand your perspective. We might have a decent team this year and make the tourney, but what do you see that makes you optimistic beyond that? The 2019 recruiting class was a big dud and so far 2020 isn't looking any better.
 

AUFC

Helluva Engineer
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2,857
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Atlanta
I'm not particularly hopeful about the program right now. More than the personnel on the team right now, what's most concerning to me is a couple things. 1) We have a coach who doesn't seem to be able to connect with the players he is trying to bring aboard. Pastner seems like a nice enough guy and is a really solid in-game coach, but his brand is "goofy." I've seen Memphis fans refer to him as "cornball." He's just a goofy, awkward dude - it's like a total intangible intrinsic to our person and personality. Geoff Collins is a polar opposite. If I'm a 17 year old, I'd find it really hard to formulate a strong bond with him. 2) Snagging recruits who want to stay in state should have been shooting fish in a barrel competing against UGA and Georgia State. It's not anymore - Georgia State has fallen with the loss of Ron Hunter but Tom Crean (and his devoted bag men) have made the task infinitely harder. If there's any program in the state of Georgia that I'm optimistic about right now, it's UGA sad to say.
 

Bogey

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1,726
Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand your perspective. We might have a decent team this year and make the tourney, but what do you see that makes you optimistic beyond that? The 2019 recruiting class was a big dud and so far 2020 isn't looking any better.
I just see how far our program had dropped and now there is a good chance we dance next year. And these results, with all that has gone on like Ron Bell & LaBarrie, speaks well for the man and the coach, in my opinion. I understand he has not closed on recruits but I choose to be positive and want to give him a chance the next couple years. To me he has proven he can coach in the ACC, and I admire his chracter that has enabled him to survive so far. Also optimistic that some of the swag that CGC brings will spill over to our bball program. I am not a bball guru that follows recruits like a lot of yall, but I do know what it takes to compete and I believe CJP has it. As my wife tells me all the time, "we shall see". It is a very interesting time to be a Tech fan

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lv20gt

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5,580
Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand your perspective. We might have a decent team this year and make the tourney, but what do you see that makes you optimistic beyond that? The 2019 recruiting class was a big dud and so far 2020 isn't looking any better.

After this year we only lose Banks and Phillips (obviously early departures are possible but I don't think you can really predict that about any of our players). Phillips provides some depth but with the addition of Parham I don't see his loss as being overly significant barring unpredictable events. Banks is obviously a big loss and would make a glaring hole at the 5 spot, but we'd be returning a lot of experience elsewhere and tremendous experience at PG especially which is a huge reason for optimism. The situation also sets up nicely for recruiting either a one and done center and backup combination similar to what we did with Favors and Miller, or a grad transfer and freshman combo, due to playing time available on a team otherwise poised to return to the NCAAT. Even if we have to do something like play a big who would really be better spent having a year coming off the bench it's not the end of the world as the experience around him should limit how much we have to rely on the 5 spot on offense. I'd argue that there is pretty good reasons to be optimistic both for this year and for 2020.

The big concern is the 2021 year. We're on pace to lose Jose, Parham (if he gets a waiver), Usher, Wright, and Cole. If we decide to go the grad transfer route or one and done route that could be another loss and it's not unreasonable that Devoe could go pro. So 2021 is likely a major rebuilding year which seems to be going back to where we were when Pastner is hired but the major difference is that he'd not be bringing in a transition class, and he'd be recruiting off the back of two NCAAT appearances which should make things easier. In that sense there would have been major improvement from where we were when he was hired.

The major counterpoint would be those who argue that it would rely on recruiting to make that worthwhile and that Pastner has been a terrible recruiter. The thing I don't understand about those arguments though is that they try to only look at recruiting in isolation and don't look at other additions, or try to just handwaive them away. For instance, in the 2019 recruiting cycle what were our biggest needs? We needed 3 point shooting, a guard to help give Alvarado and Devoe a breather, and production at the 3 spot. We added a guy who was 12th in the nation in 3PA and converted at a 40% clip. We also added a former 4* wing player with experience in a P5 conference. While those weren't recruiting additions, and so people pretend that they didn't happen, they were pretty good solutions to our biggest problems. And Pastner has done a pretty good job of that in his time here. The biggest issue we had for a long time was poor PG play. Pastner brought in a guy who was able to step up and be pretty good immediately, then a top 100 PG, and finally Parham to give them a rest. We've gone from starting a SF at PG to having one of the better PG situations we've had in the last couple decades. Last year the biggest forseable problem was replacing Lammers and we brought in a former 5* center. The biggest hole we had that wasn't addressed was due to Okogie leaving early, and when your best player leaves early during the middle of a rebuilding job it's likely you're going to have a big hole that is very hard to fill. You can't just look at recruiting because it doesn't paint the full picture of what total team you have put together. Right now next year's team has one major hole and that is at Center. Based on past performances I fully expect Pastner to find a good solution to that. 2021 is a situation with many issues present but it'll also be, if things go well, a very different recruiting situation than he has faced while here so far.

It is by no means a certainty but there is plenty of reason for optimism for the next two years on the court, and thus long term on the back of that.
 

Connell62

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
3,092
After this year we only lose Banks and Phillips (obviously early departures are possible but I don't think you can really predict that about any of our players). Phillips provides some depth but with the addition of Parham I don't see his loss as being overly significant barring unpredictable events. Banks is obviously a big loss and would make a glaring hole at the 5 spot, but we'd be returning a lot of experience elsewhere and tremendous experience at PG especially which is a huge reason for optimism. The situation also sets up nicely for recruiting either a one and done center and backup combination similar to what we did with Favors and Miller, or a grad transfer and freshman combo, due to playing time available on a team otherwise poised to return to the NCAAT. Even if we have to do something like play a big who would really be better spent having a year coming off the bench it's not the end of the world as the experience around him should limit how much we have to rely on the 5 spot on offense. I'd argue that there is pretty good reasons to be optimistic both for this year and for 2020.

The big concern is the 2021 year. We're on pace to lose Jose, Parham (if he gets a waiver), Usher, Wright, and Cole. If we decide to go the grad transfer route or one and done route that could be another loss and it's not unreasonable that Devoe could go pro. So 2021 is likely a major rebuilding year which seems to be going back to where we were when Pastner is hired but the major difference is that he'd not be bringing in a transition class, and he'd be recruiting off the back of two NCAAT appearances which should make things easier. In that sense there would have been major improvement from where we were when he was hired.

The major counterpoint would be those who argue that it would rely on recruiting to make that worthwhile and that Pastner has been a terrible recruiter. The thing I don't understand about those arguments though is that they try to only look at recruiting in isolation and don't look at other additions, or try to just handwaive them away. For instance, in the 2019 recruiting cycle what were our biggest needs? We needed 3 point shooting, a guard to help give Alvarado and Devoe a breather, and production at the 3 spot. We added a guy who was 12th in the nation in 3PA and converted at a 40% clip. We also added a former 4* wing player with experience in a P5 conference. While those weren't recruiting additions, and so people pretend that they didn't happen, they were pretty good solutions to our biggest problems. And Pastner has done a pretty good job of that in his time here. The biggest issue we had for a long time was poor PG play. Pastner brought in a guy who was able to step up and be pretty good immediately, then a top 100 PG, and finally Parham to give them a rest. We've gone from starting a SF at PG to having one of the better PG situations we've had in the last couple decades. Last year the biggest forseable problem was replacing Lammers and we brought in a former 5* center. The biggest hole we had that wasn't addressed was due to Okogie leaving early, and when your best player leaves early during the middle of a rebuilding job it's likely you're going to have a big hole that is very hard to fill. You can't just look at recruiting because it doesn't paint the full picture of what total team you have put together. Right now next year's team has one major hole and that is at Center. Based on past performances I fully expect Pastner to find a good solution to that. 2021 is a situation with many issues present but it'll also be, if things go well, a very different recruiting situation than he has faced while here so far.

It is by no means a certainty but there is plenty of reason for optimism for the next two years on the court, and thus long term on the back of that.

Transfers...If we don't land a PJ Hall in this cycle, I think that we will look to add someone with upside, and then look to hammer the transfer market for a real impact player in the paint.

It wouldn't surprise me to see us look in that direction for a guard or two as well. I know you know this, but it is part of the landscape and a viable route to plug holes in the roster on occasion.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
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5,580
Transfers...If we don't land a PJ Hall in this cycle, I think that we will look to add someone with upside, and then look to hammer the transfer market for a real impact player in the paint.

It wouldn't surprise me to see us look in that direction for a guard or two as well. I know you know this, but it is part of the landscape and a viable route to plug holes in the roster on occasion.

Yup. That's certainly an option, although it kind of exacerbates our issues with losing a lot after next year, and I'm not really a fan of one year transfers. You really want to avoid having to replace 6 or 7 guys at once if you can. Obviously we're not in a position to be declining top talent but ideally I would prefer a class of a true center recruit, a PF recruit that could possibly play some spot minutes at the 5, and guard/wing. So looking at who we have listed on 247 something like a class of Saba Gigiberia, Jordan Meka and Eugene Brown would be great for me. It would leave a bigger concern at center for 2020 but I think it'd make the 2021 year a smoother transition. I actually think the absolute best thing would be to land something like Hall, a high quality PG (Devion Smith), and find James Banks part 2 (immediate eligible ACC quality big man with 2 years of eligibility). The PG will be hard with so little available playing time as a freshman to offer, and the James Banks part 2 is just not something you can really rely on even being out there.
 
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