Coaching Carousel -- Just Pastner 2019

[GT_EE78]

Trying to sell an athlete on the value of education is like using a $100 bill for fish bait.

Three of them doesn't work well either.

 

[Connell62]

Hey! Moral compass. Get it together FFS.... no one else is equipped to keep me in check

I’m good. It’s just beginning to get laughable. Hopefully we turn the page on 19 and just focus our energy on 2020.

They 100% must reevaluate their closing process. I’ve got no idea what that currently includes but it needs tweaking.

 

[kg01]

Hey! Moral compass. Get it together FFS.... no one else is equipped to keep me in check

Good to know it wasn't just me reading his post like ...

I feel like a kid that walked in on dad smoking a joint when he thought the kids were at grandma's.

Oh man, I'm reevaluating life right now. Thanks a lot, c62.

 

[Connell62]

Good to know it wasn't just me reading his post like ...

I feel like a kid that walked in on dad smoking a joint when he thought the kids were at grandma's.

Oh man, I'm reevaluating life right now. Thanks a lot, c62.

Hilarious! That **** was funny kg! Bravo.

 

[Sebastian GT]

Post going to Miss State? Another miss? Sheesh.

https://247sports.com/college/missi...-overseas-prospect-in-Quinten-Post-132700769/

 

[Peacone36]

We don’t though, not yet anyways. The 2019-20 is still very good

 

[RyanS12]

This is my last year for Pastner. Ncaa tournament and at least one win. Anything less his *** needs to go. The off court stuff has to be a major concern and a terrible call on JP with Bell.
The recruiting is pitiful. Especially this class. Nothing against Price but when all you signed out of HS in this class is a underrated guard and some kid that didn’t play at a juco you know it’s bad. I that get he got Devoe and I’m sure I’ll hear he was a 4 star and I like the kids game but everything else have been reaches, minus Jose. We’re heading Bach to the BG model of filling a roster with transfers. Banks, Usher & Parham. All talented kids but the type of kids we need to close on in HS not the transfer portal.
No tournament this year I see no way he has any momentum for the 2020 and beyond classes with everyone knowing he will probably be fired in a year or two.....
All or nothing this year

I don’t post like this on Quinlans board because there’s always one that praise JP for all the 4 stars he landed.....

 

[Peacone36]

This is my last year for Pastner. Ncaa tournament and at least one win. Anything less his *** needs to go. The off court stuff has to be a major concern and a terrible call on JP with Bell.
The recruiting is pitiful. Especially this class. Nothing against Price but when all you signed out of HS in this class is a underrated guard and some kid that didn’t play at a juco you know it’s bad. I that get he got Devoe and I’m sure I’ll hear he was a 4 star and I like the kids game but everything else have been reaches, minus Jose. We’re heading Bach to the BG model of filling a roster with transfers. Banks, Usher & Parham. All talented kids but the type of kids we need to close on in HS not the transfer portal.
No tournament this year I see no way he has any momentum for the 2020 and beyond classes with everyone knowing he will probably be fired in a year or two.....
All or nothing this year

I don’t post like this on Quinlans board because there’s always one that praise JP for all the 4 stars he landed.....

Get ready for a disappointment

 

[Peacone36]

They need to stop wasting on time on 2019 and just focus on 2020 and 2021. I'd rather pocket the scholly anyways and have it in case someone interesting decides to transfer after the fall.

This year has been the biggest recruiting disappointment year in my 37 yrs as a GT basketball fan. Just didn't go well. They got plenty of guys on campus - just a complete failure to close on anyone.

He has to land a solid 2020 class (multiple Top 150 guys) and then be at least a bubble team (if not NCAA team) this upcoming season. That has been my thinking since March.
Pastner is going to be here through the 2020-2021 season -there is basically no way he won't be based on his contract. But the contract is designed for the AD to make a decision after that season ends.

If he can have a solid 2020 class - followed by a season where they either make the NCAA or are one of the last out - something that shows significant promise and that the plan may be working so that you have both on court and time available arguments you can make to a big 2021 class then he has a chance to succeed. But we'll know in 10 months if not sooner.

Red, say we make the NIT this year and land Meka for 2020. Are you comfortable with JP moving forward through, say 2024?

 

[RamblinRed]

Red, say we make the NIT this year and land Meka for 2020. Are you comfortable with JP moving forward through, say 2024?

Nope. That just means I don't lose all faith in him before a decision has to be made in 2021. Basically it buys him that 5th year for me to stay interested and believe he still has a chance to succeed.
If that comes to pass then I would need to see a really good 2021 class and an NCAA bid or it is time to move on.

If that doesn't come to pass then my mind is basically set on him and it is just a matter of how long before we can make a move - which will be affected by his contract and the fact we emptied the wallet for the FB program this year and likely need at least a couple of years before it is refilled enough to deal with basketball. Those 2 items are why he is basically guaranteed to be here through 2021.

 

[Peacone36]

Nope. That just means I don't lose all faith in him before a decision has to be made in 2021. Basically it buys him that 5th year for me to stay interested and believe he still has a chance to succeed.
If that comes to pass then I would need to see a really good 2021 class and an NCAA bid or it is time to move on.

If that doesn't come to pass then my mind is basically set on him and it is just a matter of how long before we can make a move - which will be affected by his contract and the fact we emptied the wallet for the FB program this year and likely need at least a couple of years before it is refilled enough to deal with basketball. Those 2 items are why he is basically guaranteed to be here through 2021.

I knew what you originally meant, I was just curious.

 

[Connell62]

I'm concerned the closing (or lack their of), comes from CJP himself. After listening to him from the beginning I have been concerned that he is an oddball that doesn't connect well with 17-20 year old young men. He gives off a home-school, social awkwardness vibe that I am concerned pushes away kids once they talk to him in person or on visits. Something has to give with all of the misses near the end...

Serious question, how many times have you seen Pastner (in any setting) outside of the media?

 

[RamblinCharger]

Serious question, how many times have you seen Pastner (in any setting) outside of the media?

Never met Pastner in person. Emailed with him a couple of times, and those interactions came across as odd as well. Do I think he is a nice guy? Yes. Do I think he is probably a guy with great personal character? Yes. Can I read a person pretty well and see if they are odd without meeting them? Yes. Could I be wrong about it? Maybe, but I doubt it.

 

[dtm1997]

I've met Pastner in person once. Didn't find him near as awkward as his press conference persona.

 

[smokey_wasp]

Unwanted houseguests or noisy neighbors? Call Pastner to come offer them a scholarship and they'll be out the door.

Having trouble closing sales at your job or getting past third base with a special someone? We now call that "Pastner-ing".

(Sorry. A little levity)

 

[Peacone36]

Unwanted houseguests or noisy neighbors? Call Pastner to come offer them a scholarship and they'll be out the door.

Having trouble closing sales at your job or getting past third base with a special someone? We now call that "Pastner-ing".

(Sorry. A little levity)

Matt.....is that you?

 

[slugboy]

A couple of things

• Press conferences are different from personal first impressions, which are different from long term impressions. Appearing awkward at a press conference doesn't mean that you're not a dynamite recruiter or coach.
• We recruited really well under Hewitt, poorly under Gregory, and have been lower end of the ACC under Pastner. 2012 was the last time we had a top 25 recruiting class (Poole, Carter, MGH, Bolden). I had to go back to 2009 to find another. I feel safe saying it's been 10 years since we recruited really well. (That does mean that many of the players we're recruiting were 5 or 6 years old the last time we had a big name player)
• Pastner lost two good recruiting assistants, and has had major distractions for the last couple of years. Your guess is as good as mine for impact on recruiting, and how much of that impact is hitting the program long term, hitting Pastner for his duration here, or is temporary until he gets his focus back (assuming he hasn't gotten his focus back yet).
• I don't subscribe to the thinking that you change out the head coach and recruiting either plummets or booms. They're a big factor, in some cases a huge factor, but not the only factor.
• When you plan for the future of your basketball team, you have to cover multiple aspects and not just the head coach. When we swapped Hewitt for Gregory, we didn't plan for the program in the way we should have, and even with Gregory's limitations we didn't cover the other areas well. With Pastner, we at least covered assistant coaching well. We need a roadmap to where we're going and start moving in that direction.

If I was AD, I'd look at whatever I could fix this year and start fixing that.

 

[Peacone36]

A couple of things

• Press conferences are different from personal first impressions, which are different from long term impressions. Appearing awkward at a press conference doesn't mean that you're not a dynamite recruiter or coach.
• We recruited really well under Hewitt, poorly under Gregory, and have been lower end of the ACC under Pastner. 2012 was the last time we had a top 25 recruiting class (Poole, Carter, MGH, Bolden). I had to go back to 2009 to find another. I feel safe saying it's been 10 years since we recruited really well. (That does mean that many of the players we're recruiting were 5 or 6 years old the last time we had a big name player)
• Pastner lost two good recruiting assistants, and has had major distractions for the last couple of years. Your guess is as good as mine for impact on recruiting, and how much of that impact is hitting the program long term, hitting Pastner for his duration here, or is temporary until he gets his focus back (assuming he hasn't gotten his focus back yet).
• I don't subscribe to the thinking that you change out the head coach and recruiting either plummets or booms. They're a big factor, in some cases a huge factor, but not the only factor.
• When you plan for the future of your basketball team, you have to cover multiple aspects and not just the head coach. When we swapped Hewitt for Gregory, we didn't plan for the program in the way we should have, and even with Gregory's limitations we didn't cover the other areas well. With Pastner, we at least covered assistant coaching well. We need a roadmap to where we're going and start moving in that direction.

If I was AD, I'd look at whatever I could fix this year and start fixing that.

I am not sure I am buying this. Typically as a new head coach you have a grace period to sell your plan for the program to players. Gregory did a good job of that with his first class but he just wasnt an ACC level coach. There is a reason that guys like Kelvin Sampson, Bruce Pearl, Tom Crean, Ben Howland and Steve Alford land recruits wherever they go. Well, maybe two reasons, but hey, if youre going to break the rules, be good at it.

At some point you just have to make progress and prove that you can do it. I would hire Bozo the clown to coach our program if he brought GT to the tournament 3 out of every 5.

Its great that for the last 8 years we have had really nice guys as coaches. But eventually you have to stop making excuses and just win. Games. Recruiting. Fans. Everything else is just smoke.

 

[slugboy]

I am not sure I am buying this. Typically as a new head coach you have a grace period to sell your plan for the program to players. Gregory did a good job of that with his first class but he just wasnt an ACC level coach. There is a reason that guys like Kelvin Sampson, Bruce Pearl, Tom Crean, Ben Howland and Steve Alford land recruits wherever they go. Well, maybe two reasons, but hey, if youre going to break the rules, be good at it.

At some point you just have to make progress and prove that you can do it. I would hire Bozo the clown to coach our program if he brought GT to the tournament 3 out of every 5.

Its great that for the last 8 years we have had really nice guys as coaches. But eventually you have to stop making excuses and just win. Games. Recruiting. Fans. Everything else is just smoke.

It got cut off, but it looks like you were responding to this part:

• I don't subscribe to the thinking that you change out the head coach and recruiting either plummets or booms. They're a big factor, in some cases a huge factor, but not the only factor.

I do think that if you're not recruiting well after 3 years, it's probably not going to happen. I'm even a bit leery about giving a mulligan for the first year, but you should see something in the second at least. I am of the mind that Pastner missed a window when Ron Bell crash landed in the middle of a recruiting cycle.

I think if we could swap Pastner out for the same contract and $$ for Bryce Drew--who we wanted and who Vandy just fired and who was recruiting at a higher level than we've been--that we're largely in the same place we are now. And we can't even do that--we've got some finances to work around.

And for most of the gettable coaches I see out there, it's a similar situation.

What I'm saying is that if you "fix" one problem, you've still got other problems. And if you can't fix one problem now, start on the rest. And have a plan on how to get where you want to go.

 

[Peacone36]

Yeah I off the Drew train. I was driving for a while but Im out.

Guys id like to see considered:

Earl Grant
Nathan Davis
Steve Prohm (you gotta call him but we probably missed the boat)
Mike Schrage