CFP Discussion

[Northeast Stinger]

The CFP has published criteria. Google it, it’s easy to find. At some point there always will be subjectivity. Teams don’t play the same schedule and are in different conferences.

If you really believe all the G5 Conference Chsmps should have auto bids go back to my post where I laid out all the 5 G5 Champs games against P5 teams. The G5 Champs were 1-9 against the P5 teams they played. Only JMU beat UVA by one point. Do you really think it serves anyone to have 5 G5 teams in when their best get beat routinely by average P5 teams. Pointless at best.

Yes the odds are high the SEC and B1G will have the most teams in the 12 team CFP. So what. Only Clemson 2 times and FSU 1 time have won the CFP from a conference not called the SEC or B1G.

Currently they have more very good teams than either the ACC or the Big 12. G5s, laughable comparison.

Next year this board will be whining like little kids who had their candy taken by the school bully when the SEC and B1G get 3 or 4 teams each in the CFP.

Clemson beating Georgia would be the ACC signature win to open the season. How many in here think that will actually happen. Possibly, for sure. Likely, nope.

I don’t think anyone on here will whine if the B1G and SEC get 3 or 4 deserving teams in the playoffs.

 

[stinger78]

The CFP has published criteria. Google it, it’s easy to find. At some point there always will be subjectivity. Teams don’t play the same schedule and are in different conferences.

If you really believe all the G5 Conference Chsmps should have auto bids go back to my post where I laid out all the 5 G5 Champs games against P5 teams. The G5 Champs were 1-9 against the P5 teams they played. Only JMU beat UVA by one point. Do you really think it serves anyone to have 5 G5 teams in when their best get beat routinely by average P5 teams. Pointless at best.

Yes the odds are high the SEC and B1G will have the most teams in the 12 team CFP. So what. Only Clemson 2 times and FSU 1 time have won the CFP from a conference not called the SEC or B1G.

Currently they have more very good teams than either the ACC or the Big 12. G5s, laughable comparison.

Next year this board will be whining like little kids who had their candy taken by the school bully when the SEC and B1G get 3 or 4 teams each in the CFP.

Clemson beating Georgia would be the ACC signature win to open the season. How many in here think that will actually happen. Possibly, for sure. Likely, nope.

I'm sorry, but you're making no sense. What you are saying amounts to, "We think x conference has no chance to win so we aren't even going to invite their conference champ to the tournament that will determine the champion of their division."

First, that wrong on the surface. Each conference deserves to have their champ represent them in the tournament or the tournament doesn't represent them. Second, you are making these subjective judgements based on what you think might happen. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but what you think might happen is irrelevant.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I'm sorry, but you're making no sense. What you are saying amounts to, "We think x conference has no chance to win so we aren't even going to invite their conference champ to the tournament that will determine the champion of their division."

First, that wrong on the surface. Each conference deserves to have their champ represent them in the tournament or the tournament doesn't represent them. Second, you are making these subjective judgements based on what you think might happen. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but what you think might happen is irrelevant.

I think we are at an impasse on this debate.

To me it boils down to a simple question. Do you think that the college football playoff has been largely fair to date or do you think it’s flawed and needs serious revision? How one answers that probably influences all other debates. I think Root4GT is not as dissatisfied with the system as a lot of us and feels like more of the same in an expanded format is just fine.

 

[Root4GT]

I'm sorry, but you're making no sense. What you are saying amounts to, "We think x conference has no chance to win so we aren't even going to invite their conference champ to the tournament that will determine the champion of their division."

First, that wrong on the surface. Each conference deserves to have their champ represent them in the tournament or the tournament doesn't represent them. Second, you are making these subjective judgements based on what you think might happen. Maybe it will, maybe it won't, but what you think might happen is irrelevant.

The first part of your statement is silly. G5 Conferences are not equal to P4 conferences and as such they get treated differently. Perfectly logical with a small CFP field. And regardless of what you keep saying you know this is what is going to happen. You are still in the denial stage of grief on the CFP it appears. Acceptance will eventually come, hang in there.

Currently with the conference realignment the SEC and B1G have more top tier teams than the ACC or Bug 12. Make your case if you think that is currently false. Of course that could change. It will be difficult to change due to the dollar advantage the SEC and B1G have going forward but Clemson, FSU and Miami all have been the dominant college football teams for periods so sure it could happen. Hope the ACC gets its top tier teams on equal footing with the SEC and B1G.

 

[Root4GT]

I think we are at an impasse on this debate.

To me it boils down to a simple question. Do you think that the college football playoff has been largely fair to date or do you think it’s flawed and needs serious revision? How one answers that probably influences all other debates. I think Root4GT is not as dissatisfied with the system as a lot of us and feels like more of the same in an expanded format is just fine.

Quick answer. There is no system that works well for the CFP for FBS teams/conferences.

The 12 team system is better than the BCS or 4 team CFP.

Let it play out as constructed and tweak if needed.

The G5 argument is baseless in my opinion.

 

[stinger78]

The first part of your statement is silly. G5 Conferences are not equal to P4 conferences and as such they get treated differently. Perfectly logical with a small CFP field. And regardless of what you keep saying you know this is what is going to happen. You are still in the denial stage of grief on the CFP it appears. Acceptance will eventually come, hang in there.

Currently with the conference realignment the SEC and B1G have more top tier teams than the ACC or Bug 12. Make your case if you think that is currently false. Of course that could change. It will be difficult to change due to the dollar advantage the SEC and B1G have going forward but Clemson, FSU and Miami all have been the dominant college football teams for periods so sure it could happen. Hope the ACC gets its top tier teams on equal footing with the SEC and B1G.

I’m speaking on principle. A championship cannot suppose to cover all conferences if all conferences do not have a chance to compete. This is an inclusive approach, yours is an elitist approach. Elitism is killing college football, IMO. Therefore, I reject your approach. Period.

Elitism controls CFB. You are correct that it will not change. On this we agree.

 

[apatriot1776]

I don’t think anyone on here will whine if the B1G and SEC get 3 or 4 deserving teams in the playoffs.

Sure, reality will dictate that multiple teams come from the two superconferences, but the question is where the deserving line is. 2012 was perhaps the high-water mark of the SEC and you could argue 6 teams deserved to make a 12-team playoffs - eventual champ 12-1 Alabama, the team that just barely lost the SEC championship 11-2 Georgia, 11-1 Florida, Manziel-led 10-2 Texas A&M, and then 10-2 SCar and 10-2 LSU. All 6 were in the top 10 of the BCS rankings, should all 6 make the playoffs over 11-2 FSU, 10-2 Clemson, and 11-1 Northern Illinois? Should it be 3? Where is the line?

 

[stinger78]

Sure, reality will dictate that multiple teams come from the two superconferences, but the question is where the deserving line is. 2012 was perhaps the high-water mark of the SEC and you could argue 6 teams deserved to make a 12-team playoffs - eventual champ 12-1 Alabama, the team that just barely lost the SEC championship 11-2 Georgia, 11-1 Florida, Manziel-led 10-2 Texas A&M, and then 10-2 SCar and 10-2 LSU. All 6 were in the top 10 of the BCS rankings, should all 6 make the playoffs over 11-2 FSU, 10-2 Clemson, and 11-1 Northern Illinois? Should it be 3? Where is the line?

It will be decided in a smokey back room somewhere by people who have exhibited their biases in the past. I think we all know how that would turn out.

 

[forensicbuzz]

The first part of your statement is silly. G5 Conferences are not equal to P4 conferences and as such they get treated differently. Perfectly logical with a small CFP field. And regardless of what you keep saying you know this is what is going to happen. You are still in the denial stage of grief on the CFP it appears. Acceptance will eventually come, hang in there.

Currently with the conference realignment the SEC and B1G have more top tier teams than the ACC or Bug 12. Make your case if you think that is currently false. Of course that could change. It will be difficult to change due to the dollar advantage the SEC and B1G have going forward but Clemson, FSU and Miami all have been the dominant college football teams for periods so sure it could happen. Hope the ACC gets its top tier teams on equal footing with the SEC and B1G.

Right now, the way the 12-team playoff is laid out, the champions of the top 6 ranked conferences receive an invitation to the CFP. That was going to be the P5 + 1 G5. With the Pac12 essentially defunct, does that get changed or does it now mean the P4 + 2 G5 champions? It will be interesting to see how this works out because we know Sankey would only be happy with the 6 or 7 at-large spots going to SEC teams, because, as we all know, it just means more.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Right now, the way the 12-team playoff is laid out, the champions of the top 6 ranked conferences receive an invitation to the CFP. That was going to be the P5 + 1 G5. With the Pac12 essentially defunct, does that get changed or does it now mean the P4 + 2 G5 champions? It will be interesting to see how this works out because we know Sankey would only be happy with the 6 or 7 at-large spots going to SEC teams, because, as we all know, it just means more.

I read somewhere that it will be 2 G5 champions but I haven’t gone back to see where I saw this.

I’m leaning towards thinking the new format is a big improvement. Obviously we will have to see if it mitigates sufficiently the subjective biases that have effected the process in the past.

 

[CEB]

Right now, the way the 12-team playoff is laid out, the champions of the top 6 ranked conferences receive an invitation to the CFP. That was going to be the P5 + 1 G5. With the Pac12 essentially defunct, does that get changed or does it now mean the P4 + 2 G5 champions? It will be interesting to see how this works out because we know Sankey would only be happy with the 6 or 7 at-large spots going to SEC teams, because, as we all know, it just means more.

The plan is top 6 conf champs plus 6 at large. It isn’t 5 P5 champs + 1G5 + 6 at large
The elimination of the PAC doesn’t HAVE to change anything as I understand it. It simply means that the top 6 conf champs will include two G5 champs since the P5 is now the P4.
FWIW, even if rhe PAC somehow resurrects, it doesn’t guarantee their champ a spot of two G5 champs are ranked higher
I fully expect they will push to revisit this set up, but if there is not agreement on how to change, we could have this for a while.

 

[RonJohn]

The Big10 and SEC have already indicated that they want to change the format to be top 5 conference champs and 7 at large. I don't believe there would be enough time to make the change before the 2024 pageant, but maybe there is. IF a G5 champion wins next year, then it could dampen the efforts to change. Even if two G5 make it to the final four teams, it could make it more difficult to say they should be left out. I doubt either of those happens. I fully expect that by 2025, the field will be made up of 5 and 7.

 

[stinger78]

I read somewhere that it will be 2 G5 champions but I haven’t gone back to see where I saw this.

I’m leaning towards thinking the new format is a big improvement. Obviously we will have to see if it mitigates sufficiently the subjective biases that have effected the process in the past.

If it surely includes the top 2 G5 conferences, that is an improvement. Their season goals would be to be one of the top 2. I’d prefer maybe the top 1 plus a play-in for 2-5. That’s two games. Or maybe add a third G5 team and have a one game play-in between the 3-4 conf champs. Lowest ranked doesn’t get in. That would be 4/5 P5 champs, 3 G5 champs, and 4/5 at-large. Those at-large teams would teams who failed to win their conference when they had the chance. I have little sympathy for them.

 

[MWBATL]

Quick answer. There is no system that works well for the CFP for FBS teams/conferences.

The 12 team system is better than the BCS or 4 team CFP.

Let it play out as constructed and tweak if needed.

The G5 argument is baseless in my opinion.

You’ve convinced me, Root. But we must then follow your logic to its logical conclusion.

NO G5 teams should be allowed in because, as you say, they simply cannot contend for the title.

But we must also exclude the Big XII as well, since in 25 years of the BCS & CFP they have NEVER sniffed a title.

That will simplify everything. SEC and Big Ten, plus the ACC champ (if we feel like it).

Perfect, right? Did I get it right this time?

 

[WreckinGT]

The Big10 and SEC have already indicated that they want to change the format to be top 5 conference champs and 7 at large. I don't believe there would be enough time to make the change before the 2024 pageant, but maybe there is. IF a G5 champion wins next year, then it could dampen the efforts to change. Even if two G5 make it to the final four teams, it could make it more difficult to say they should be left out. I doubt either of those happens. I fully expect that by 2025, the field will be made up of 5 and 7.

It will probably be in place for 2024. They were discussing it this week.

 

[WreckinGT]

Quick answer. There is no system that works well for the CFP for FBS teams/conferences.

The 12 team system is better than the BCS or 4 team CFP.

Let it play out as constructed and tweak if needed.

The G5 argument is baseless in my opinion.

I hope you realize that in 5 years or so, the ACC and Big 12 will be considered G5(7) conferences. It's pretty obvious that a new model will be coming that does not include conference champions by default.

 

[dmurdock]

The Big10 and SEC have already indicated that they want to change the format to be top 5 conference champs and 7 at large. I don't believe there would be enough time to make the change before the 2024 pageant, but maybe there is. ..... I fully expect that by 2025, the field will be made up of 5 and 7.

It will very likely be changed to a 5+7 format for 2024. The CFP Management Committee (10 conference commissioners and Notre Dame’s athletics director) have already passed a recommendation for the 5+7 format. The vote was unanimous, with the PAC12 abstaining. All it needs now is to be approved by the Board of Managers, made up of 11 university presidents and chancellors from each conference as well as Notre Dame. On January 8th the Board of Managers met and agreed to postpone the vote on the proposal at the request of the PAC12. I don't see any way that the PAC12 will come up with an argument to persuade the Board of Managers to stay with a 6+6 format. Also, the Board wouldn't have postponed the vote if they weren't meeting again before 2024 season, so they will very likely pass it at their next meeting well in time for it to be in place for 2024.

College Football Execs Punt on Changing Structure of New 12-Team Playoff

In the wake of Florida State being left out of the College Football Playoff, extra security measures were put in place to protect members of the CFP selection committee as well as executive director Bill Hancock, who told reporters threats have ranged from vitriol on social media, to...

www.abc27.com

 

[CEB]

It will very likely be changed to a 5+7 format for 2024. The CFP Management Committee (10 conference commissioners and Notre Dame’s athletics director) have already passed a recommendation for the 5+7 format. The vote was unanimous, with the PAC12 abstaining. All it needs now is to be approved by the Board of Managers, made up of 11 university presidents and chancellors from each conference as well as Notre Dame. On January 8th the Board of Managers met and agreed to postpone the vote on the proposal at the request of the PAC12. I don't see any way that the PAC12 will come up with an argument to persuade the Board of Managers to stay with a 6+6 format. Also, the Board wouldn't have postponed the vote if they weren't meeting again before 2024 season, so they will very likely pass it at their next meeting well in time for it to be in place for 2024.

College Football Execs Punt on Changing Structure of New 12-Team Playoff

In the wake of Florida State being left out of the College Football Playoff, extra security measures were put in place to protect members of the CFP selection committee as well as executive director Bill Hancock, who told reporters threats have ranged from vitriol on social media, to...

www.abc27.com

Interesting…
I know why 4 conference commissioners and ND would push for this, but I’m surprised that it was unanimous. Just stalling a year could be a windfall for one lucky G5 school…

Although, I’m sure there are plenty of payouts going around in exchange for these votes…. Or maybe its a perfect system after all, right @Root4GT?

 

[stinger78]

Interesting…
I know why 4 conference commissioners and ND would push for this, but I’m surprised that it was unanimous. Just stalling a year could be a windfall for one lucky G5 school…

Although, I’m sure there are plenty of payouts going around in exchange for these votes…. Or maybe its a perfect system after all, right @Root4GT?

If it’s unanimous then who can argue. If so, I’m blown away by how fast these G5 conferences bend over. Must be getting paid pretty well to be the peasant class.

 

[jgtengineer]

I hope you realize that in 5 years or so, the ACC and Big 12 will be considered G5(7) conferences. It's pretty obvious that a new model will be coming that does not include conference champions by default.

I actually expect the conference championships will go away. All champions will be determined by ranking and record. By eliminating the conference championship games that allows for an expansion to 16 teams. With the top 16 teams just getting in.

The odds are that will always contain 1 from each conference. With the fill out being primarily from the two main conferences with at least one g5 at large.

It isn't how I would do it but it is the likely way they will do it.