Attrition and Scholarship Limits

[LibertyTurns]

Do this to SAs that obviously work hard and do everything coaches ask of them outside of earning a spot on the 2 deep?

My point is and I’m probably not making it well is that we treat academic scholarship students different than we treat athletic scholarship students. To me the decision tree is fundamentally the same.

I don’t advocate one set of rules for regular students and another for athletes.

To be honest I’ve never been a member of the give everybody a trophy crowd. Doesn’t make me right or wrong necessarily but my personal opinion is that in life you may face adversity and staying eligible on a sports team is no different than trying to keep your job, your academic scholarship, etc

 

[DieselTeeth]

Ok one more question There is a 5 star player that is a player you really want and need, his best friend is a 2 star player who you know will not pan out. But the 4 star player has told you he will sign if you offer his friend . What do you do ?

You do not offer the two star to get the five star.
Five star must come on his own merit

 

[MidtownJacket]

My point is and I’m probably not making it well is that we treat academic scholarship students different than we treat athletic scholarship students. To me the decision tree is fundamentally the same.

I don’t advocate one set of rules for regular students and another for athletes.

To be honest I’ve never been a member of the give everybody a trophy crowd. Doesn’t make me right or wrong necessarily but my personal opinion is that in life you may face adversity and staying eligible on a sports team is no different than trying to keep your job, your academic scholarship, etc

We don't sell recruits on taking 30 hours of classes, we sell them on getting a degree. It is a pretty simple deal IMHO they should be given the chance to get their 120 hours if we extend an offer.

Additionally, the athletes are getting study hall and tutors and support beyond an academic scholarship (S&C, Nutrition, Etc). They aren't the same thing. Short of kids doing research to help with grants the academics also don't bring in the $$ Athletes do.

 

[bobongo]

You do not offer the two star to get the five star.
Five star must come on his own merit

Five star does come on his own merit. It's the two star that doesn't. But I'd make that deal any time.

 

[stech81]

Five star does come on his own merit. It's the two star that doesn't. But I'd make that deal any time.

I would agree if the only way to get the 5 star was to offer his friend the 2 star player I would offer both. Fact see if you sign 25 players if 15 are still there at the end of 4 years that would be a good class. 40% to maybe 50% will only be there at the end of 4 years.

 

[Animal02]

We don't sell recruits on taking 30 hours of classes, we sell them on getting a degree. It is a pretty simple deal IMHO they should be given the chance to get their 120 hours if we extend an offer.

Additionally, the athletes are getting study hall and tutors and support beyond an academic scholarship (S&C, Nutrition, Etc). They aren't the same thing. Short of kids doing research to help with grants the academics also don't bring in the $$ Athletes do.

Also, whether the SA is on the 2 deep roster is not in his complete control.

 

[takethepoints]

For the record I’m not in favor of going full on Bammer/SEC and start cheating like a flea bitten mutt, however, things don’t always work out in life.

An honest way of dealing with it is straightforward discussions. If they’re not cutting it give them goals and a timeline just like every other competitive discipline.

Every parent who plunks down $40k plus a year is exptecting Johnny to get a degree and a good start to a career. GT processes kids out academically all the time, yet when it comes to athletes we’re supposed to string along those that can’t quite make it because it provides us a degree of moral superiority ??? What if we were doing just that with your precious degree program and gave every kid a degree whether they earned it or not? That’s essentially what some are advocating. Yeah there would be a ton of GT academic elitists with a panty knot rammed so far up their 5 hole you’d be able to hear the outrage in Johannesburg.

You're mixing apples and oranges here.

Yes, Tech washes people - athletes and others - out for academic reasons all the time. But what some here are talking about is washing out a student based not on his performance in the classroom, but on his performance on the football field. That's different. Tech made a deal with the players: stay in school and play football and we'll pay for most of it. If they can't cut it academically, they usually leave. But if they can't get on the field, keep trying, and they stay in school, then the rest of the bargain still stands. Tech took a chance that the player will be a contributor to the main income-earning sport sponsored by the GTAA and the reason the young man came to Tech was to play and go to school. However, the bargain doesn't end if the player can't get on the field. Taking the scholarship away is, in effect, kicking the kid out of school for reasons that have little or nothing to do with his education. That won't do. I don't care what some schools - there are less of them then we might think, imho - do, that isn't how we've done things and it is both cynical and short-sighted to start with that kind of thing now.

Or, at least, that's how it seems to me.

 

[A Love Supreme]

https://www.ajc.com/sports/college/...layton-transfers-tech/ZZPCWoXDzXICxKeAGrULqO/
Clayton’s addition increases the number of players scheduled to be on scholarship in the 2019-20 academic year at 88, three above the NCAA limit.

I know people say we will have a few leave after the spring game, but the players seem to be happy so what happens if we stay over the 85 rule ?

Collins needs to be careful. The NCAA doesn't treat GT too kindly.

 

[stinger 1957]

Can donors pick up the tab for a kid finishing his education at Georgia Tech outside of the athletic department? Would this be outside of NCAA rules and regs if it was done outside of the athletic department?

 

[Gtbowhunter90]

Can donors pick up the tab for a kid finishing his education at Georgia Tech outside of the athletic department? Would this be outside of NCAA rules and regs if it was done outside of the athletic department?

That sounds like a major infraction

 

[lv20gt]

We don't sell recruits on taking 30 hours of classes, we sell them on getting a degree. It is a pretty simple deal IMHO they should be given the chance to get their 120 hours if we extend an offer.

Revoking a scholarship isn't taking away their chance to get a degree. They don't get kicked out of school. They can stay, get their degree, and if they have to take out loans then they are just like countless others who are in the same situation.

Anyways, not targeted at anyone in particular, I have never understood why people are so against processing. Pretty much any other scholarship comes with stipulations. If you have HOPE you have to maintain a 3.0 or better. It doesn't matter how hard you try, or if you to show up to class every day, or try your hardest. If you get a 2.7 then you don't get that money. You aren't kicked out of school.

Yet when it comes to athletic scholarships, apparently the only bar is showing up to practice and maintaining eligibility, which is something like a 2.0. To me that sounds absurd. The only reason anyone has a scholarship at Bama is because they convinced Saban they could help the team win. That is the bar that they have to make to keep the scholarship. If they don't meat it, they find themselves in the same position as mr. 2.7 in the previous case. And that is the way it should be. If you aren't helping the team in the opinion of the person who's job is to run it, then why are you getting a scholarship specifically for that team?

 

[lv20gt]

Yes, Tech washes people - athletes and others - out for academic reasons all the time. But what some here are talking about is washing out a student based not on his performance in the classroom, but on his performance on the football field.

Not having a scholarship is not the same as being kicked out.

Taking the scholarship away is, in effect, kicking the kid out of school for reasons that have little or nothing to do with his education.

No it isn't. It is, not in effect but in actuality, forcing that SA to be in the same position countless other students at GT already are.

 

[Animal02]

Revoking a scholarship isn't taking away their chance to get a degree. They don't get kicked out of school. They can stay, get their degree, and if they have to take out loans then they are just like countless others who are in the same situation.

Anyways, not targeted at anyone in particular, I have never understood why people are so against processing. Pretty much any other scholarship comes with stipulations. If you have HOPE you have to maintain a 3.0 or better. It doesn't matter how hard you try, or if you to show up to class every day, or try your hardest. If you get a 2.7 then you don't get that money. You aren't kicked out of school.

Yet when it comes to athletic scholarships, apparently the only bar is showing up to practice and maintaining eligibility, which is something like a 2.0. To me that sounds absurd. The only reason anyone has a scholarship at Bama is because they convinced Saban they could help the team win. That is the bar that they have to make to keep the scholarship. If they don't meat it, they find themselves in the same position as mr. 2.7 in the previous case. And that is the way it should be. If you aren't helping the team in the opinion of the person who's job is to run it, then why are you getting a scholarship specifically for that team?

That mentality is reprehensible.

 

[GoldZ]

My point is and I’m probably not making it well is that we treat academic scholarship students different than we treat athletic scholarship students. To me the decision tree is fundamentally the same.

I don’t advocate one set of rules for regular students and another for athletes.

To be honest I’ve never been a member of the give everybody a trophy crowd. Doesn’t make me right or wrong necessarily but my personal opinion is that in life you may face adversity and staying eligible on a sports team is no different than trying to keep your job, your academic scholarship, etc

The football players came here because we asked/begged them to in exchange for educational funding, but the regular students in a lot of cases begged to come while they did the paying.

 

[GoldZ]

Not having a scholarship is not the same as being kicked out.



No it isn't. It is, not in effect but in actuality, forcing that SA to be in the same position countless other students at GT already are.

Actually, it is. The financial situation and the academic prowess of many of our SAs is not the same as our regular students, not even close in most cases. Bottom line---they would have in effect been kicked out without the $ and academic support they were originally promised as long as they upheld their end of the bargain which is study and practice/train hard. What Saban etal do is not "college" football, but rather Corporate Serfdom.

 

[lv20gt]

Actually, it is. The financial situation and the academic prowess of many of our SAs is not the same as our regular students, not even close in most cases. Bottom line---they would have in effect been kicked out without the $ and academic support they were originally promised as long as they upheld their end of the bargain which is study and practice/train hard. What Saban etal do is not "college" football, but rather Corporate Serfdom.

The academic prowess not being the same is just more reason they should be held to a standard above "I showed up and tried real hard". They are getting money for playing football, not for showing up and trying hard. If they aren't good at football, they shouldn't be getting money for it. There are plenty of regular students who can't cut it academically at GT. They also don't get the opportunity to try that SA's already got. If they can't cut it they can transfer, just like anyone else that finds out they can't cut it.

As far as the $ goes, same deal. There are plenty of people that have to take out loans to go to college, and they don't get two or three years paid for like the SA would. And the reality is there are plenty of people that can't afford college. It sucks, but it also doesn't mean they should get a handout.

as long as they upheld their end of the bargain which is study and practice/train hard

And if that is all their end entails then the coach is a fool.

 

[gtg391z]

I have never had any problem with pulling a scholarship after 3 years if that player is not contributing on the field. Just be honest up front about expectations. Nothing should ever be guaranteed.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Revoking a scholarship isn't taking away their chance to get a degree. They don't get kicked out of school. They can stay, get their degree, and if they have to take out loans then they are just like countless others who are in the same situation.

Anyways, not targeted at anyone in particular, I have never understood why people are so against processing. Pretty much any other scholarship comes with stipulations. If you have HOPE you have to maintain a 3.0 or better. It doesn't matter how hard you try, or if you to show up to class every day, or try your hardest. If you get a 2.7 then you don't get that money. You aren't kicked out of school.

Yet when it comes to athletic scholarships, apparently the only bar is showing up to practice and maintaining eligibility, which is something like a 2.0. To me that sounds absurd. The only reason anyone has a scholarship at Bama is because they convinced Saban they could help the team win. That is the bar that they have to make to keep the scholarship. If they don't meat it, they find themselves in the same position as mr. 2.7 in the previous case. And that is the way it should be. If you aren't helping the team in the opinion of the person who's job is to run it, then why are you getting a scholarship specifically for that team?

Implement this philosophy and you will have to trash all transfer restrictions also. Programs won’t be allowed to have their cake and eat it too at the sole expense of SAs

 

[bos]

I'm not sure if this was discussed, but I definitely see a QB transfer when the starter is announced.

Scenario 1: LJ does not win the job, I don't see why he would stay to back up for two years.

Scenario 2: LJ wins the job, than TO and Graham sit for two year, after which they battle each other and incoming guys who likely fit the system better anyway.

 

[ncjacket79]

I'm not sure if this was discussed, but I definitely see a QB transfer when the starter is announced.

Scenario 1: LJ does not win the job, I don't see why he would stay to back up for two years.

Scenario 2: LJ wins the job, than TO and Graham sit for two year, after which they battle each other and incoming guys who likely fit the system better anyway.

I’m assuming we have some ABs and receivers down the depth chart looking at the roster at Kennesaw State.