Attrition and Scholarship Limits

[dressedcheeseside]

Who is the fool that recruited the kid?

Exactly. When a coach signs a kid, he's essentially making a 4 year gamble. It's an educated gamble, but a gamble nonetheless. It's the same gamble all the coaches make. Why should some get a mulligan and others not?

 

[lv20gt]

Uh, you don't get to renege on the deal made previously just because you change coaches. Whatever the deal was before, it still is. If you have any integrity, that is. And, if you want anyone to keep believing what you say.

And the deal always was that they get a scholarship for helping the team win. If they are no longer helping the team win...

 

[bobongo]

And the deal always was that they get a scholarship for helping the team win. If they are no longer helping the team win...

They get a scholarship in the hope that they help the team win. The deal has never been that they get the scholarship only so long as the coach deems that they are helping the team win. The deal is that they get the scholarship and do their best. This is not pro football. Pro football is where you are on the team only as long as you help them win. That's pro football, not college.

 

[Buzzbomb]

https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...-recruiting-class-limits-national-signing-day
Conferences have their own rules, too. The SEC has a limit of 28 signees between December and May, which limits how many players a team can enroll early to avoid breaching the 25-man cap. The Big Ten’s rule is similar and also features a cap of 28 per year.

The signing limit can be 28 NLI each year. First year coaches(like ours have a one-year exception for roster management)can take until the end of Fall practice to get down to the 85 total scholarship limit.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

And the deal always was that they get a scholarship for helping the team win. If they are no longer helping the team win...

Have you ever read a Financial Aid Agreement? It's an actual contract that is signed. Helping the team win is not a prerequisite for keeping your financial aid. Here's the common verbiage included in most D1 AAGs. (Service Academies use different agreements) Please see bolded verbiage below.

Conditions for Receipt of Athletic Grant-in Aid. I understand that to qualify for this financial aid, I must:
* meet the admission requirements of XXXX University
* meet and maintain the eligibility requirements for athletic participation and financial aid established by the NCAA, the XXXX Conference, and XXXX University.
* abide by the Athletic Department’s academic standards program as set forth in the student-athlete handbook; and,
* adhere to all rules and policies of the Athletic Department, including but not limited to team rules, equipment room policies, strength and conditioning program policies, and medical services policies

Terms of Athletic Grant-in-Aid

My financial aid will cover the following percent of a full grant: (percentage of each element awarded)

NCAA regulations restrict the total amount of financial aid a student-athlete can receive. If I receive a federal grant or some other scholarship or financial aid (including earnings from a job during a term), I will notify the Financial Aid office and my coach before accepting the funds. I understand that those funds may replace a portion of my athletic grant in order to meet NCAA and conference regulations. My financial aid will not be increased, reduced, or canceled during the period of the award on the basis of my athletic ability, performance or contribution to my team’s success; because of an injury or illness that prevents me from participating in athletics; or for any other athletic reason. Further, NCAA Bylaw 15.3.3.1 states that athletic aid shall not be awarded in excess of one academic year.

Reduction or Cancellation of Athletic Grant-in-Aid

I am aware that the amount of this aid may be immediately reduced or canceled during the term of this award if:
* I become ineligible for intercollegiate competition (for example, by carrying less than 12 applicable semester credits);
* I give false information on my application, letter of intent or, this financial aid agreement;
* I engage in serious misconduct that brings disciplinary action from XXX;
* I voluntarily withdraw from the sport for personal reasons prior to the first competition in my sport; or
* I do not meet the “conditions for receipt of Athletics grant-in-aid” outlined above. I am also aware that this aid must be reduced or canceled if:
* I sign a professional sports contract for this sport;
* I accept money for playing in an athletic contest;
* I agree to be represented by an agent; or
* I receive other aid that applies to my individual limit.

Please indicate your acceptance of this financial aid by signing this agreement and returning it to the Financial Aid Office no later than (Date).

 

[MidtownJacket]

Did I miss this news? Does it mean we gave Mr. Wells that Scholly? I hope so.

 

[takethepoints]

The academic prowess not being the same is just more reason they should be held to a standard above "I showed up and tried real hard". They are getting money for playing football, not for showing up and trying hard. If they aren't good at football, they shouldn't be getting money for it. There are plenty of regular students who can't cut it academically at GT. They also don't get the opportunity to try that SA's already got. If they can't cut it they can transfer, just like anyone else that finds out they can't cut it.

As far as the $ goes, same deal. There are plenty of people that have to take out loans to go to college, and they don't get two or three years paid for like the SA would. And the reality is there are plenty of people that can't afford college. It sucks, but it also doesn't mean they should get a handout.



And if that is all their end entails then the coach is a fool.

Now, this whole analysis misses the main point and, as usual, it involves money.

As pointed out above, Tech made a bargain with the players that is an actual contract. True, the players get an opportunity to get a degree and, perhaps, play. But Tech gets much, much more. It gets the services of the young men in a major revenue producing sport for a comparative pittance. There's a reason why there's movement to unionize college football players; the schools are making out like bandits on the barely paid labor of football players. Now, if Tech and other schools decided to treat being a scholarship athlete like being an employee, then your point would be valid. But then Tech would have to bargain with every player on their price and, if the player can't come through, they could part ways. But such a bargain isn't allowed under U.S. law or NCAA rules. What is allowed is what we now have: a bargain based on Tech perhaps getting a good football player and the player perhaps getting his degree. Both sides have taken a risk, but that's what a contract is for: it outlines benefits and risks for both sides. What you are talking about violates the agreement and isn't fair.

Your analogy to regular Tech students is also flawed. When young people go to Tech it is all one-sided. They plea for entry and Tech decides if they are up to snuff. If so, they pay Tech for the degree. Tech gets the tuition, but the students are a money loser for the institution; tuition doesn't cover costs for any post-secondary education. Football players are money makers for the place.

As for not affording college: after November 2020, we'll just see about that. Making college affordable again will make things better for the whole country.

 

[stech81]

Did I miss this news? Does it mean we gave Mr. Wells that Scholly? I hope so.

Not that I have heard

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

And the deal always was that they get a scholarship for helping the team win. If they are no longer helping the team win...

I guess Jaylend Ratliffe is out of luck now huh?

Seems like all of a sudden there are a lot of Tech fans willing to “sell their souls to the devil” to win. Why so? Is it primarily due to recent mutt success?

 

[smokey_wasp]

There is a lot of ground between what we used to do and Saban's way. And frankly, what is being suggested by lv20gt goes beyond what Saban does. No souls are being sold, but the majority of us do want to win and we always have.

 

[iceeater1969]

Have you ever read a Financial Aid Agreement? It's an actual contract that is signed. Helping the team win is not a prerequisite for keeping your financial aid. Here's the common verbiage included in most D1 AAGs. (Service Academies use different agreements) Please see bolded verbiage below.

Conditions for Receipt of Athletic Grant-in Aid. I understand that to qualify for this financial aid, I must:
* meet the admission requirements of XXXX University
* meet and maintain the eligibility requirements for athletic participation and financial aid established by the NCAA, the XXXX Conference, and XXXX University.
* abide by the Athletic Department’s academic standards program as set forth in the student-athlete handbook; and,
* adhere to all rules and policies of the Athletic Department, including but not limited to team rules, equipment room policies, strength and conditioning program policies, and medical services policies

Terms of Athletic Grant-in-Aid

My financial aid will cover the following percent of a full grant: (percentage of each element awarded)

NCAA regulations restrict the total amount of financial aid a student-athlete can receive. If I receive a federal grant or some other scholarship or financial aid (including earnings from a job during a term), I will notify the Financial Aid office and my coach before accepting the funds. I understand that those funds may replace a portion of my athletic grant in order to meet NCAA and conference regulations. My financial aid will not be increased, reduced, or canceled during the period of the award on the basis of my athletic ability, performance or contribution to my team’s success; because of an injury or illness that prevents me from participating in athletics; or for any other athletic reason. Further, NCAA Bylaw 15.3.3.1 states that athletic aid shall not be awarded in excess of one academic year.

Reduction or Cancellation of Athletic Grant-in-Aid

I am aware that the amount of this aid may be immediately reduced or canceled during the term of this award if:
* I become ineligible for intercollegiate competition (for example, by carrying less than 12 applicable semester credits);
* I give false information on my application, letter of intent or, this financial aid agreement;
* I engage in serious misconduct that brings disciplinary action from XXX;
* I voluntarily withdraw from the sport for personal reasons prior to the first competition in my sport; or
* I do not meet the “conditions for receipt of Athletics grant-in-aid” outlined above. I am also aware that this aid must be reduced or canceled if:
* I sign a professional sports contract for this sport;
* I accept money for playing in an athletic contest;
* I agree to be represented by an agent; or
* I receive other aid that applies to my individual limit.

Please indicate your acceptance of this financial aid by signing this agreement and returning it to the Financial Aid Office no later than (Date).

THANKS FOR CONTENT
Please advise if the above agreement is for MORE THAN 1 YEAR OR IMPLIES THE GRANTING OF SUBSEQUENT YEARS.

Sure looks like 15.3 3 3.1 -specicfically calls out 1 year.

 

[iceeater1969]

I have said this numerous times our way forward is a strong R shirt program sprinkled with some stud recruits.

We should give them 4 1 year scholarships and let the coaches figure it out with integrity. Remember 5th year sr ol men win championships. They are grown men.


In the past our biggest problem is the tutoring is so good our smart players can leave early. KLOCK w 2 years elidbility - to NW for masters. J Mathews w 1 year left with a Masters. Braun left in 3 years.

Right now I am hoping the glut of ab can be worked out in a manner that's honorable. Will wait and see.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

THANKS FOR CONTENT
Please advise if the above agreement is for MORE THAN 1 YEAR OR IMPLIES THE GRANTING OF SUBSEQUENT YEARS.

Sure looks like 15.3 3 3.1 -specicfically calls out 1 year.

In this particular contract it does. The NCAA formerly prohibited, with the exception of the service academies, the granting of multi-year athletic scholarships.

The NCAA changed the rules in 2012 to allow multi year athletic scholarships again. Few schools have used them, though, for differing reasons.

Best proposed solution I've seen is the NCAA institutes two classes of scholarships. 5 year guaranteed, but normal transfer rules apply. You transfer, you sit a year, no exceptions other than Grad Transfer. 1 year renewable allows freedom of transfer (1 time) with no sitting out a year.

That would solve a whole bunch of this nonsense.

 

[DieselTeeth]

I guess Jaylend Ratliffe is out of luck now huh?

Seems like all of a sudden there are a lot of Tech fans willing to “sell their souls to the devil” to win. Why so? Is it primarily due to recent mutt success?

What happened to jaylend was a trad

I guess Jaylend Ratliffe is out of luck now huh?

Seems like all of a sudden there are a lot of Tech fans willing to “sell their souls to the devil” to win. Why so? Is it primarily due to recent mutt success?

What happened to Jaylend was tragic and we did the right thing by him and his family.
But if you are going to swim in the pool, you can't just dip your toe in the water. This is big boy football coaches recruit these boys to play football, and the y are responsible for who they bring in and develop. If the coach doesn't like to recruit, or can't sell the program then he needs to think about another line of work. He is responsible for winning and not handing out excuses for why he can't. This is a storied program and deserves as much. It's expected at Alabama, and should be expected just as much here. Don't have to win NC every year but I expect to be top 25 instead of Bosie State, or Utah.

 

[takethepoints]

What happened to jaylend was a trad

What happened to Jaylend was tragic and we did the right thing by him and his family.
But if you are going to swim in the pool, you can't just dip your toe in the water. This is big boy football coaches recruit these boys to play football, and the y are responsible for who they bring in and develop. If the coach doesn't like to recruit, or can't sell the program then he needs to think about another line of work. He is responsible for winning and not handing out excuses for why he can't. This is a storied program and deserves as much. It's expected at Alabama, and should be expected just as much here. Don't have to win NC every year but I expect to be top 25 instead of Bosie State, or Utah.

Now, I just commented on this line of thought. If "big boy football" requires processing - I'm not sure it does - then we shouldn't involve Tech in it. I don't think Coach is on board with something like that either; he knows how Tech football works and says he can get us back to the O'Leary days. I presume that means we win without this kind of crud. I might add that I don't want a program that fills Grant Field with toxic fumes when the players come out. Leave that to Ugag.

 

[DieselTeeth]

Now, I just commented on this line of thought. If "big boy football" requires processing - I'm not sure it does - then we shouldn't involve Tech in it. I don't think Coach is on board with something like that either; he knows how Tech football works and says he can get us back to the O'Leary days. I presume that means we win without this kind of crud. I might add that I don't want a program that fills Grant Field with toxic fumes when the players come out. Leave that to Ugag.

Don't want to process either. Coach made the deal, now live with. But the coach better get real quick with player development in a hurry and improve on better recruiting.

 

[takethepoints]

Don't want to process either. Coach made the deal, now live with. But the coach better get real quick with player development in a hurry and improve on better recruiting.

Oh.

 

[Ibeeballin]

I guess Jaylend Ratliffe is out of luck now huh?

Seems like all of a sudden there are a lot of Tech fans willing to “sell their souls to the devil” to win. Why so? Is it primarily due to recent mutt success?

Jaylend was Medicaled and doesn’t account against the scholarship limit

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Now, I just commented on this line of thought. If "big boy football" requires processing - I'm not sure it does - then we shouldn't involve Tech in it. I don't think Coach is on board with something like that either; he knows how Tech football works and says he can get us back to the O'Leary days. I presume that means we win without this kind of crud. I might add that I don't want a program that fills Grant Field with toxic fumes when the players come out. Leave that to Ugag.

I agree and you said it perfectly.

 

[iceeater1969]

I

In this particular contract it does. The NCAA formerly prohibited, with the exception of the service academies, the granting of multi-year athletic scholarships.

The NCAA changed the rules in 2012 to allow multi year athletic scholarships again. Few schools have used them, though, for differing reasons.

Best proposed solution I've seen is the NCAA institutes two classes of scholarships. 5 year guaranteed, but normal transfer rules apply. You transfer, you sit a year, no exceptions other than Grad Transfer. 1 year renewable allows freedom of transfer (1 time) with no sitting out a year.

That would solve a whole bunch of this nonsense.

Would be interesting to see what schools do sign multi year contracts?
So often coaches results don't improve after multi year contract.

I think the rational about the 1 year is to avoid the abuse by either party - get fat don't really workout verses athelete leave on yearly renewal date.

Plenty of room for abuse on either side.

Your idea solves a lot of issues.