Arrests coming due to college bball kickbacks

[dtm1997]

I think K & Calipari can get pretty much whoever they want from the OAD set these days. They've both shown that kids who go there for a year are virtually guaranteed a lottery pick (or non-lottery first round). That means millions guaranteed for three years, at a minimum. Self is probably in that same boat these days, too.

Here's the big difference...

Cal was getting the 1 & dones because he was putting them in the pros and actually developing them to be players in the NBA.

K's track record remains spotty to date on that front. He certainly made the conscious decision to pick up 1 & dones though.

 

[dtm1997]

So, no evidence of any kind linking K, Capel or anyone else at Duke to this mess. (Or UNC, Kansas, Mich State....) but the Coaching Changes nozzle says that the evidence shows K is no saint and that he has used an agent as his lead recruiter. And you constantly say Capel is dropping bags all over the place.

Interesting.... There is an active lawsuit against CJP. One assistant is still under investigation and had to quit. Two players broke NCAA rules and were suspended. Seems to me the only evidence so far is piling up on Tech and not much on the blue bloods.

Lots more shoes to drop in the FBI case and it will be interesting to see what they have and on which schools. I have no idea, but I assume it's not as wide spread as the click bait headlines are asserting. If evidence shows Capel is paying players, hasta la vista. Ditto for any coach. But i'll wait to see what evidence there is, just like I will about CJP. (I think Ron / Miracle Whip is a nut job and don't believe the tales in the lawsuit. But I am skeptical of the "I didn't know anything" about the trip to AZ, the shoes, etc.)

Agree with you on ditto for any coach. Agree that if CJP is found guilty of something, peace out.

My underlying problem remains that the NCAA & its rules are a crock of ****.

 

[KeystoneJacket]

Heard third hand info a week ago that Bagley isn't hurt, but is sitting due to possible infractions. Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Peacone36]

I think K & Calipari can get pretty much whoever they want from the OAD set these days. They've both shown that kids who go there for a year are virtually guaranteed a lottery pick (or non-lottery first round). That means millions guaranteed for three years, at a minimum. Self is probably in that same boat these days, too.

If you’re good enough you will be a lottery pick. I HIGHLY doubt that the 4 of the top 9 recruits in the 2018 all turned down cash offers to play in Durham (another point of ridiculousness) out of pure tradition?

And before anyone makes the argument, yes I realize he signed Grant Hill and Elton Brand who would be one and dones these days.

 

[mstranahan]

Heard third hand info a week ago that Bagley isn't hurt, but is sitting due to possible infractions. Take it with a grain of salt.

Yup. That thought is definitely out there, as is the assertion that his dad is holding him out so he doesn't get hurt and impact his draft stock. I don't know anything, so will wait and see. Likely no one outside the locker room will ever know what did / didn't happen.

 

[kg01]

Yup. That thought is definitely out there, as is the assertion that his dad is holding him out so he doesn't get hurt and impact his draft stock. I don't know anything, so will wait and see. Likely no one outside the locker room will ever know what did / didn't happen.

Wha?

How can you accept that rumor but totally reject the notion that K is paying players?

 

[Peacone36]

Heard third hand info a week ago that Bagley isn't hurt, but is sitting due to possible infractions. Take it with a grain of salt.

No. NO! Really? After they spent 6 whole days getting him through the clearing house? After attending a achool that wasn’t considered a school? After living in Arizona while playing AAU ball in Tennessee? 5 high schools in 4 years?

Craziness that there might be shady business going on

 

[mstranahan]

Not saying they go to Duke for tradition, emotion of anything like that. It's a business decision for the kid and family. Over the past 6 or 7 years, Duke & Kentucky have had lots of the OAD kids. They've also had most go lottery and get paid. They also get the most TV exposure on ESPN, CBS etc.

UNC and Mich St have gone more for a handful of OAD and lots of kids who are 4* or 5* but unlikely OAD (Berry, Maye, Hicks, Paige, Johnson, Pinson, etc for UNC) and have had lots of success, too.

 

[mstranahan]

How can you accept that rumor but totally reject the notion that K is paying players?

I'm not "accepting" a rumor. Just saying that it's out there. So is the rumor about Richard Gere and a gerbil. The fact that someone starts a rumor doesn't mean I believe it.

Do I personally believe K or Duke paid Bagley? No. Do I think it's possible that Bagley (or any 5* athlete) accepted money or improper benefit from an agent, booster or someone else? Yes. I don't believe it's true, but I am not naive enough to say it's impossible.

 

[dtm1997]

I guess I need to lose interest Just to add a few things to your value consideration - first athletes get put to the front of the line for admission to universities that can be life changing admissions. Not talking about the 20 or so that may go to the NBA but the thousands that get to the head of the line at all institutions including the Ivies. Second, if it was all about the players then the G League would be blowing the NCAA basketball games out of the water ratings wise as the talent in the G League is the stars of the college game. People watch due to their attachment to the university and attraction to the college "experience".

If you want to jigger things to give "something" more to athletes then OK. If you want a full professional model then I guess I do need to go away. And FWIW most reasonable analysis I have seen say there are a very small group of athletes in college that move the needle or create value themselves but the vast majority are just part of the process and already way more than adequately compensated.

The con to my argument - and the thing that honestly pisses me off - is the tact the NCAA and especially its member institutions/conferences have taken the tact that they should attempt to maximize every dollar they can get which has simply gone into coaches/administrator salaries and a way over the top facility arms race. I don't have a good answer to the dichotomy here. Other than making athletes in college "professionals" pisses me off even more.

I'm not calling for a full professional model.

I am saying that the players that generate outlier amounts of value get a share of that market value.

The underlying schools should not be on the hook beyond the educational component. I'm not saying that the schools should pay higher amounts for individual players. I do think the cost of attendance stipends, that would go to ALL student athletes, should be higher.

That said, if a Wendell Carter or a Nassir Little or a Collin Sexton are able to earn in excess of that because an agent is willing to give them money or a booster is willing to hire them to sign autographs at their car dealership or if a sponsorship opportunity X arises while they're at school, then let them have it.

Does this mean the players that are strictly about cash in pocket will always end up at Alabama or Georgia to play football or Kentucky or UNC for hoops because their boosters will step up the most? Maybe. So be it. Those fan bases want it more and are willing to pony up more.

I've said this before elsewhere. Maybe I've said it here.

Nobody's willing to admit it, but the reality is that GT fans are not in favor of amateurism because amateurism is such a great thing, they're secretly scared that we'll get blown out of the water when all the illicit money already being spent can be put on front street because we won't keep up. Guess what, that's a GT problem. Not someone else's problem.

 

[kg01]

I'm not "accepting" a rumor. Just saying that it's out there. So is the rumor about Richard Gere and a gerbil. The fact that someone starts a rumor doesn't mean I believe it.

Do I personally believe K or Duke paid Bagley? No. Do I think it's possible that Bagley (or any 5* athlete) accepted money or improper benefit from an agent, booster or someone else? Yes. I don't believe it's true, but I am not naive enough to say it's impossible.

That's basically all we're all saying so stop fighting the feelin', Strahan.

 

[Peacone36]

Brian Bowen was #18 in the country and he got paid. Bagley is probably the promising prospect since Lebron and you don’t think someone gave him some cash? I find it incredibly hard to beleive.

 

[kg01]

Brian Bowen was #18 in the country and he got paid. Bagley is probably the promising prospect since Lebron and you don’t think someone gave him some cash? I find it incredibly hard to beleive.

It's harder for me to believe he didn't take money.

His signing with Duke, in my feeble mind, is confirmation that Duke pays guys.

 

[Peacone36]

It's harder for me to believe he didn't take money.

His signing with Duke, in my feeble mind, is confirmation that Duke pays guys.

Especially since you know Arizona, who was also in his final list, was paying people

 

[jeffgt14]

mstranahan seems a bit naïve here. I do, however, only put the chances of anything hitting Coach K at about 15%. Capel on the other hand, is ****ed.

 

[dtm1997]

I'm not calling for a full professional model.

I am saying that the players that generate outlier amounts of value get a share of that market value.

The underlying schools should not be on the hook beyond the educational component. I'm not saying that the schools should pay higher amounts for individual players. I do think the cost of attendance stipends, that would go to ALL student athletes, should be higher.

That said, if a Wendell Carter or a Nassir Little or a Collin Sexton are able to earn in excess of that because an agent is willing to give them money or a booster is willing to hire them to sign autographs at their car dealership or if a sponsorship opportunity X arises while they're at school, then let them have it.

Does this mean the players that are strictly about cash in pocket will always end up at Alabama or Georgia to play football or Kentucky or UNC for hoops because their boosters will step up the most? Maybe. So be it. Those fan bases want it more and are willing to pony up more.

I've said this before elsewhere. Maybe I've said it here.

Nobody's willing to admit it, but the reality is that GT fans are not in favor of amateurism because amateurism is such a great thing, they're secretly scared that we'll get blown out of the water when all the illicit money already being spent can be put on front street because we won't keep up. Guess what, that's a GT problem. Not someone else's problem.

Here's a hypothetical example I want people to consider...

GT opens last season & for the first few weeks of the season, Quon Marshall is one of the hottest players in college football.

A local car dealership wants to pay him a $1,000 appearance fee and let him charge $20/autograph on a Sunday morning.

He's already a GT player, so there are no recruiting implications. It's on a day off and will be done early, letting him return to his studies or whatever else on said day off. None of the money being earned comes out of GT's coffers.

Quon conducts the appearance, earns his money, GT has a couple of more good weeks before things get sideways and he becomes something of an afterthought of the season.

Why would this scenario be so wrong to let Quon capitalize on when the iron is hot?

 

[jeffgt14]

Here's a hypothetical example I want people to consider...

GT opens last season & for the first few weeks of the season, Quon Marshall is one of the hottest players in college football.

A local car dealership wants to pay him a $1,000 appearance fee and let him charge $20/autograph on a Sunday morning.

He's already a GT player, so there are no recruiting implications. It's on a day off and will be done early, letting him return to his studies or whatever else on said day off. None of the money being earned comes out of GT's coffers.

Quon conducts the appearance, earns his money, GT has a couple of more good weeks before things get sideways and he becomes something of an afterthought of the season.

Why would this scenario be so wrong to let Quon capitalize on when the iron is hot?

Because there will be a **** ton more used car lots in Tuscaloosa.

 

[dtm1997]

Because there will be a **** ton more used car lots in Tuscaloosa.

Thanks for confirming my prior post.

You're against it because you know GT can't keep up. Who's fault would that be in my scenario? Ours, as a fan base, for not being ready nor willing to step up to the plate.

 

[dtm1997]

Let me say this...

I think dook is definitely dropping bags, but if the rules changed tomorrow that allowed their boosters to pay players tomorrow in a registered manner that resulted in taxable income, I'd be fine with that.

 

[Peacone36]

Meanwhile there is the “illusion” of fair play currently.

I am on the fence with paying players but, ****s already dirty so why not? I don’t know why I don’t like the thought of paying players but I don’t. At least not in that scenario. Should we up the stipend given to athletes? Sure.