Arrests coming due to college bball kickbacks

jeffgt14

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I believe there's still a disconnect between what I'm saying and what you're thinking of.

The schools all start at a baseline level - scholarship, room & board, stipend, etc.

It's what comes from outside of the schools that's fair game.

Also, these kids are clearly establishing a level of market value before being tied to a single school. Could their market value increase because they go to a certain school? Absolutely. Are those schools the sole factor for driving market value? Not at all.

Here's a thought - what if the best offer for market value is something that results in both the player & school getting paid? What if shoe companies bid on a kid to steer him to a set of schools and the schools got bonuses from their shoe companies based on the kid becoming more marketable through performance? Does this incentivize all parties? Yep. Does this add increased aspects of professional characteristics to college sports? In line with your original comment? Would seem to.



The bottom line is that there is money out there willing to find its way in to these kids pockets. Would you rather it be out in the open or would you rather it be against the "rules" & happen anyway so folks can have a bull**** platform to admonish rule breakers?

Bags aren't going away.

I agree to an extent with outside endorsements. I have no issue with some player getting paid to sign autographs at a dealership (your original question, my response to that was more a joke). I do have a problem with Universities/Boosters paying players as it generally sets it up as a no salary cap minor league. I do have a problem with ABC shoe company telling some kid he can get all this **** if he goes and plays for this handpicked school instead of the school the kid actually wants to go to.

If ABC Shoe Company said, “We’ll give you all this **** if you sign with a school sponsored by us” instead of “We’ll give you all this **** if you sign with Louisville” then maybe we can talk. It’s still straddling the line. NBA and NFL players have endorsements but these endorsements aren’t telling them what teams they can and can’t play for (that I know of).
 

CuseJacket

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For what it's worth, this was Paul Hewitt's answer when I asked him about the scandal. Let the college athletes have agents. That's it.

And, I won't put words in his mouth because I don't remember verbatim, but there is evidence of players at GT (in other sports) and elsewhere who have agents the day after their eligibility is up. I'm sure we can find the examples with a Google search. So, if the NCAA truly cared, they might ask themselves, did these players really make first contact with an agent the day after their last game AND make a decision that same day? Or is the NCAA feigning ignorance. Answer is obvious.

To validate @Peacone36's theory on Bagley getting cleared in 6 days, Hewitt also gave a separate example of how you can "escalate" an NCAA eligibility decision quickly. There is absolutely a relationship-driven factor in getting players cleared.
 

GTRX7

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Complicated issue for sure. I totally agree with dtm that my biggest issue with paying NCAA players (or allowing boosters to separately pay them, which is effectively the same thing) is that it would destroy the competitive playing field in NCAA athletics and leave Tech behind. It would in fact leave behind 90% of football programs and 80% of basketball programs.

Personally, I am for NCAA rules that retain a level playing field (or at least the best reasonable approximation), while having alternative systems to the NCAA in place to give players options if they want to go make more money now. I have absolutely zero issue with the NBA trying to establish the G league for players straight out of HS or the NFL trying to do the same. Good for them. Give the players options to be paid immediately. I just don't want it in the NCAA, as that would ruin college sports for me. And, if the players have options, it is totally up to them. Come play in the NCAA and accept the scholarship, stipends, etc. If you don't want to play by those rules, go to the G league, NFL D league, etc. What is wrong with that? That is already essentially the way it is done in baseball. The current problem in NCAA for me is not so much that players can't get paid, it is that, at least for freshmen in basketball and freshman through juniors in football, they have no other option than to play for free now.

That said, I don't have the fear that someone else expressed that such a minor league set-up would hurt the NCAA. I am of course a fan of Tech athletes, but only because they play for Tech. If Josh Nesbitt had gone to Tennessee, I wouldn't have cared about him one single bit. If he had gone to UGA, I would have in fact disliked him. If he had gone to some minor league NFL system team, I wouldn't even know his name. I am a huge Nesbitt fan only because he came to Tech. Ultimately, the school is what generates my interest, and I will root for the best players that play for my school, regardless of their ultimate athletic prowess.

To my point, if you took the best 40 high school basketball players each year and put them in the G league instead of NCAA, fine. I wouldn't care. I would still cheer for the players that come to Tech and would root them on to be competitive for championships just as I do now. I also wouldn't give half a s**t about the G league. Again, this is sort of how baseball works now. The best prospects skip college entirely. And I root for Tech baseball 100 times harder than I ever would the Gwinnett braves, despite the significant talent gap. It is not individual player talent that garners my NCAA spending, it is Tech. And as long as Tech can continue to remain competitive, I will continue to spend. On the other hand, if you were to somehow double the talent in the NCAA, but in a way that creates a system such that Tech could not even compete, then I am basically done as a fan.

I guess what I am saying is that I think allowing boosters to pay players in the the way dtm suggests would destroy my interest in NCAA sports and may in fact result in collapsing the inherent value of all NCAA sports in a way that would ironically destroy the giant revenue streams that players now claim they should have a bigger part of.
 

Peacone36

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I was/am all for the G league absorbing these guys that want to get paid out of high school but the fact remains, EVERYONE wants to get paid and there will always be the best player available that is going to college. Whether or not he is the #1 player in the class or the 40th, the best player is still the best player and someone will always be willing to pay for the top talent available.

I honestly dont know how to resolve the issue.
 

RamblinRed

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I don't know the right answer, I will say if colleges do truly get into the paying players racket than the tax exempt status for every AA that does it should be rescinded.

I'm not in favor of allowing boosters for schools to pay kids. If a prospect wants to have an endorsement deal with a shoe company or whatever I can live with that pretty easily.
I think they are going to have to move closer to the Olympic model.
 

kg01

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*Duke AD rings Coach K*
AD – “Any wrongdoing going on with that Carter kid?”
Coach K – “No”
AD – “Sounds good!”

Duke "AD" - "Uhm coach, in light of this story, I jus'-"

Krewghdsgfdsalski - "......"

Duke "AD" - "Sorry sir, I don't know why I even ca ..... I'll just hang u{click} .... [dial tone]"
 

jeffgt14

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Ha! I agree with 3 posts in a row!
To my point, if you took the best 40 high school basketball players each year and put them in the G league instead of NCAA, fine. I wouldn't care. I would still cheer for the players that come to Tech and would root them on to be competitive for championships just as I do now. I also wouldn't give half a s**t about the G league. Again, this is sort of how baseball works now. The best prospects skip college entirely. And I root for Tech baseball 100 times harder than I ever would the Gwinnett braves, despite the significant talent gap. It is not individual player talent that garners my NCAA spending, it is Tech. And as long as Tech can continue to remain competitive, I will continue to spend. On the other hand, if you were to somehow double the talent in the NCAA, but in a way that creates a system such that Tech could not even compete, then I am basically done as a fan.
My point exactly. These athletes’ value is directly tied to their school. They go play in a highly competitive minor league that’ll better prepare them for the NFL and no one will give 2 ****s until they hit the NFL. Fans will still watch their school. There’s no money being generated from a minor league.
I was/am all for the G league absorbing these guys that want to get paid out of high school but the fact remains, EVERYONE wants to get paid and there will always be the best player available that is going to college. Whether or not he is the #1 player in the class or the 40th, the best player is still the best player and someone will always be willing to pay for the top talent available.

I honestly dont know how to resolve the issue.
Very true. My hope would be that large shoe companies and such would stay away because the homerun guys they want for when they hit the NFL/NBA would be in the minor leagues. Probably wouldn’t solve the bags from boosters being dropped off for the best players left though.
I don't know the right answer, I will say if colleges do truly get into the paying players racket than the tax exempt status for every AA that does it should be rescinded.

I'm not in favor of allowing boosters for schools to pay kids. If a prospect wants to have an endorsement deal with a shoe company or whatever I can live with that pretty easily.
I think they are going to have to move closer to the Olympic model.
Agree but depends on if there’s a “salary” cap that all schools have to follow or not. Honestly any school that gets caught having paying players now should lose their tax except status for a set number of years.
 

RamblinRed

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Whether an AA shows a profit is irrelevant. Companies that lose money still pay taxes.
If you are paying players, then they are employees and you are running a business, so you should pay taxes.

Of course, also be aware i'd do away with almost all non-profits. If i was in charge i'd get rid of 501C3 all together.,
 

orientalnc

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Of course, also be aware i'd do away with almost all non-profits. If i was in charge i'd get rid of 501C3 all together.,

As an active board member in three non-profits, I am curious where you would draw the line. One of mine is a one day a year music festival in Oriental that charges no admission. Another is the restoration of a 100 year old Rosenwald school just outside Oriental. The third is a foundation in Oriental that helps to fund local sailing regattas for high school and college sailors. I think these are more typical of 501C3 organizations than are fund raising activities like the AT Fund.
 

GTRX7

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As an active board member in three non-profits, I am curious where you would draw the line. One of mine is a one day a year music festival in Oriental that charges no admission. Another is the restoration of a 100 year old Rosenwald school just outside Oriental. The third is a foundation in Oriental that helps to fund local sailing regattas for high school and college sailors. I think these are more typical of 501C3 organizations than are fund raising activities like the AT Fund.

FYI, I believe the preferred term nowadays is "Asian."

:D
 

ESPNjacket

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Whether an AA shows a profit is irrelevant. Companies that lose money still pay taxes.
If you are paying players, then they are employees and you are running a business, so you should pay taxes.

Of course, also be aware i'd do away with almost all non-profits. If i was in charge i'd get rid of 501C3 all together.,

Which tax that isn't paid by college AAs do you think they should pay? Let's assume they don't have players as employees. Which taxes do you want them to pay today?
 

BeeRBee

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Which tax that isn't paid by college AAs do you think they should pay? Let's assume they don't have players as employees. Which taxes do you want them to pay today?

It's possible that there could be taxable income, even if they show a book loss, based on accounting conventions. I wouldn't expect there to be a huge difference, however.

I think the biggest immediate impact would be the loss of tax-deductibility for contributions by boosters. AAs will get a taste of this under the new tax code with fewer filers itemizing, but the impact on large donations with a loss of tax-exempt status could be significant.
 
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