Arrests coming due to college bball kickbacks

YlJacket

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I actually think the NBA is going to bail them out and do away with the one and done rule. That will take the bulk (not all) of kids who are taking money out of the NCAA system.
After that I could see the NCAA doing something like decertifying any team or tournament supported by shoe company money. Probably a lawsuit on that one but something to reduce the ability of shoe companies to influence the process.

Personally I think the idea of local sponsorships/payments to players for appearances opens pandoras box and does intrude on the competitive balance argument.
 

RamblinRed

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Supposedly AZ has cleared Ayton to play tonight. That looks weird. So you don't allow the coach to play but you do allow the player to play.

Ayton atty has said he did not take any money and is asking the FBI and NCAA to clear Ayton's name. - That ain't going to happen. NCAA doesn't have any information one way or the other and the FBI is not going to make any such statement.
 

RamblinRed

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Also important to remember there are 2 different types of NCAA violations going on here.
The ones with the agents potentially giving the players money (the report Fri night) largely allow the schools off the hook. likely punishment there is having to pay back money and if the amount is large enough having to have wins vacated.
The second are issues with coaches/assts working with agents or shoe companies to steer kids to schools (like Miller allegations, and Pitino and his assts at L'ville). These are the potential huge headaches for schools These are the violations that get coaches fired, probation and fines from the NCAA.

I also like that Augustine's charges were dropped because he never passed the money for to the recruit or his dad (likely Nas), but kept it for himself. Because of that no Federal law was broken.

Also, keep in mind that last week the defendants attys tried to get the cases dismissed and were soundly rebuffed by the judge. That may be why some of this is starting to come out now. Up to then the defense attys would be playing things close to the vest. Now that the cases continue to move forward in the system they have to rethink how best to help their clients and one way may be to start suggesting they have info they can help the Feds with.
 

ESPNjacket

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RRed makes a great point in saying these leaks are likely from the attorneys of those already indicted, thus do not encapsulate the entirety of the evidence.

If I'm Chuck Person and I'm facing charges for sh*t I did on Bruce Pearl's behalf, you best believe I want news released that'd paint him in a negative light. However, that doesn't mean that's all the evidence that exists.

That's my hope anyways as one courting chaos here.

I'm no expert on this but if I were representing one of the fired coaches I'd be trying to keep him out of jail rather than bringing other people in to keep him company. There isn't a clear case of breaking laws here IMO. NCAA rules are obviously not laws. Going to lunch with someone isn't illegal. Talking about getting someone else to give money to someone isn't illegal. You get the point.

The FBI leaks stuff when they want to win in the court of public opinion. That would make more sense to me than the defense attorneys leaking what we've read from the Yahoo stories.

If evidence changes I reserve the right to change my mind. ;)
 

ESPNjacket

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There are a few good points in this:

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-ba...ews-update-analysis/zrdxlnn7qjow15b4hga9fvz3s

Including this:

The other disappointing element to roll through Friday’s news cycle was NCAA president Mark Emmert’s hard-line statement in response to the revelations:

“These allegations, if true, point to systemic failures that must be fixed and fixed now if we want college sports in America. Simply put, people who engage in this kind of behavior have no place college sports. They are an affront to all those who play by the rules.”

Here's what’s wrong with this: Most of those who “engage in this kind of behavior” aren’t IN college sports. The agents, runners, family members, handlers – they’re not working for colleges or playing for colleges.
 

kg01

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I'm no expert on this but if I were representing one of the fired coaches I'd be trying to keep him out of jail rather than bringing other people in to keep him company. There isn't a clear case of breaking laws here IMO. NCAA rules are obviously not laws. Going to lunch with someone isn't illegal. Talking about getting someone else to give money to someone isn't illegal. You get the point.

The FBI leaks stuff when they want to win in the court of public opinion. That would make more sense to me than the defense attorneys leaking what we've read from the Yahoo stories.

If evidence changes I reserve the right to change my mind. ;)

Then we agree. You certainly are not an expert. :D Heigh-oh. I'm here all week, folks.

Seriously though, I agree the attorney should be focusing on keeping his client free. My contention is, pointing the finger at others could be part of the strategy.
 

RamblinRed

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FWIW, I think the FBI leaked some of the info but not all of it. Here's my current thinking (though like ESPN i reserve the right to change my mind as more info comes out).

First, it was little noticed, but last week the lawyers for three defendants tried to get the charges dismissed on a motion that basically said there were no Federal crimes committed so there is nothing to prosecute. Little bit of a hail mary, but some thought they might be able to win that. The judge shut it down very quickly and was based on the articles I read not at all pleased with some of the defense attys in court. He very quickly dismissed their motion and basically hinted strongly this was headed to trial. That would at then start to change strategy for the defense attys. At that point their best avenue is likely to find a way to cut a deal before it gets to trial. In order to do that, they have to show they have something of value. Once that motion was dismissed the odds of some of the defendants spending time in jail just increased quite a bit. if an atty is trying to keep his client out of jail, the easiest way to do that is to give the Feds someone farther up the chain. That is largely how the Feds work. They are going to start wherever they can get in the door and see how high they can climb.

The items that came out Thur/Fri very well could have come from lawyers for Miller and/or Dawkins. Almost everything released in those articles had to do with documents those 2 would have had. Very well could be their attys saying we have items of value and can help you move farther up the chain. Dawkins atty in particular has been very outspoken that his client should not be a fall guy for people in NCAA basketball.

saturday may have been the FBI's response. Which is largely, what can you really give us that we haven't already collected. Also, given that the articles stated they had over 3,000 hours of wire tap conversations and they picked out one very small piece of that - but one that contained info on a top coach, a top player, and a large money amount. all that would suggest they are saying, we have alot in our hand - you better bring it if you think you have something that would be of value to us.

On one level, whether the FBI has anything that rises to the bar of a federal crime is almost beside the point. Assuming they are going to turn info over to the NCAA at some point there is going to be a ton of NCAA violations to go through - that by itself may force changes.
 

lauraee

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Supposedly AZ has cleared Ayton to play tonight. That looks weird. So you don't allow the coach to play but you do allow the player to play.

Ayton atty has said he did not take any money and is asking the FBI and NCAA to clear Ayton's name. - That ain't going to happen. NCAA doesn't have any information one way or the other and the FBI is not going to make any such statement.
I call bs, I don't see how zona thinks they can get away playing ayton. This really pisses me off!
 

LongforDodd

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FWIW, I think the FBI leaked some of the info but not all of it. Here's my current thinking (though like ESPN i reserve the right to change my mind as more info comes out).

First, it was little noticed, but last week the lawyers for three defendants tried to get the charges dismissed on a motion that basically said there were no Federal crimes committed so there is nothing to prosecute. Little bit of a hail mary, but some thought they might be able to win that. The judge shut it down very quickly and was based on the articles I read not at all pleased with some of the defense attys in court. He very quickly dismissed their motion and basically hinted strongly this was headed to trial. That would at then start to change strategy for the defense attys. At that point their best avenue is likely to find a way to cut a deal before it gets to trial. In order to do that, they have to show they have something of value. Once that motion was dismissed the odds of some of the defendants spending time in jail just increased quite a bit. if an atty is trying to keep his client out of jail, the easiest way to do that is to give the Feds someone farther up the chain. That is largely how the Feds work. They are going to start wherever they can get in the door and see how high they can climb.

The items that came out Thur/Fri very well could have come from lawyers for Miller and/or Dawkins. Almost everything released in those articles had to do with documents those 2 would have had. Very well could be their attys saying we have items of value and can help you move farther up the chain. Dawkins atty in particular has been very outspoken that his client should not be a fall guy for people in NCAA basketball.

saturday may have been the FBI's response. Which is largely, what can you really give us that we haven't already collected. Also, given that the articles stated they had over 3,000 hours of wire tap conversations and they picked out one very small piece of that - but one that contained info on a top coach, a top player, and a large money amount. all that would suggest they are saying, we have alot in our hand - you better bring it if you think you have something that would be of value to us.

On one level, whether the FBI has anything that rises to the bar of a federal crime is almost beside the point. Assuming they are going to turn info over to the NCAA at some point there is going to be a ton of NCAA violations to go through - that by itself may force changes.
What are the Fed crimes here? Just curious. Banking? Tax evasion, RICO?
 

LibertyTurns

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What are the Fed crimes here? Just curious. Banking? Tax evasion, RICO?
You must have missed the news- FBI’s motto went from Fidelity Bravery & Integrity to Fraudulent Bull**** Investigations. The crime they’re investigating is #4 on their Top 10 list of priorities- Combat Public Corruption at all levels especially those involving intercollegiate athletics

https://www.justice.gov/jmd/organization-mission-and-functions-manual-federal-bureau-investigation
 

GTRX7

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You must have missed the news- FBI’s motto went from Fidelity Bravery & Integrity to Fraudulent Bull**** Investigations. The crime they’re investigating is #4 on their Top 10 list of priorities- Combat Public Corruption at all levels especially those involving intercollegiate athletics

https://www.justice.gov/jmd/organization-mission-and-functions-manual-federal-bureau-investigation

Huh? The list of priorities aren’t ranked and don’t specifically say anything about intercollegiate athletics. Am I missing something? Or are you just assuming “especially those involving intercollegiate athletics” is inherently implied as over other types of public corruption they are investigating?
 

LibertyTurns

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Huh? The list of priorities aren’t ranked and don’t specifically say anything about intercollegiate athletics. Am I missing something? Or are you just assuming “especially those involving intercollegiate athletics” is inherently implied as over other types of public corruption they are investigating?
It was a joke. Obviously the FBI should have better things to do.
 

kg01

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Ooooooooooooof course it’s racist.
Because what isn’t?

It's tinged in racist thinking. When folks are outraged about this but can't explain why they're ok with it for hockey/baseball players ... well, that's how ya know.

Because you're not racist, you give other people way too much credit.

And, of course, we all know @orientalnc is racist. I mean, really? "Oriental"? The proper term is 'Asian-American', bro. ;)
 

RamblinRed

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The reason for the one and done rule was pretty simple. The NBA was making too many evaluation mistakes of kids coming out of HS. So they were paying alot of money to young people who weren't developing how they expected. Making them go to college allowed the NBA to watch them for a year and see how they play against higher level of competition in a competitive setting (not AAU games where there is little defense).

Kwame Brown is sort of the poster child for this. It's easy to look really good when you are so much bigger and more athletic than most of the players you are seen against. How do you do once you start playing against men closer to your abilities. Basically making the kids go to college for a year allowed the NBA to watch the kids against better competition and legit defenses allowing them to make fewer evaluation mistakes and waste less money.

I'm also all in favor of allowing kids to go straight out of HS. But it should be pared with a rule similar to baseball. You can go straight, but if you want to go to college than you have to go for either 2 or 3 yrs before becoming eligible again. I hope the NBA does beef up its D-League and allow it to become more of a true minor league system for those young men that really don't want to go to school and want to simply get paid and try to get to the league.

Adam Silver in his PC before the All-Star game last week did suggest doing away with the one and done rule may be farther off through than college coaches thought. He suggested it may not be changed until the next time the collective bargaining agreement is up - which is 2023, though most think it could happen before then.
 
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