Anthem Protests

RonJohn

RonJohn

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ATL1 said:
They're are measurables and easily accomplishable goals already presented.

For the life of me I don't understand the vitriol about the protest. Like to kneel is to pay homage in the first place. People do all types of disrespectful code violating things with the flag daily and no one cares. I've seen people mad about the flag protest with confederate flags literally plastered all over their vehicles. The hypocrisy is so blatant. What are you really mad about. I don't believe it's from kneeling before a flag. Matter of fact I know it's not that.
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I haven't seen any measurable goals presented on behalf of people who are protesting.

I have attempted to explain what I think, but don't believe I have done a good job yet. In general it seems to me that: People who are offended don't want to discuss any issues the protesters have until the protesters present themselves in a non-offensive discussion about issues. They also don't know exactly what the discussion would be about. People who are protesting believe that the people who are offended are just racists and therefore don't want to discuss the protest as being offensive to them. I know I am being overly broad in those statements, but I don't think we are far from that. Neither side will listen to the actual concerns of the other because they are locked into discussing their concern first.

On top of that, the general NFL protests this past weekend in my opinion watered down the actions of those who were actually protesting. The president's statements in my opinion weren't for any constructive reason, they were one-line rallying cries to an amenable group. The NFL's response seemed to be that they would do something because the president said something. They were "unified" because they locked arms, but I haven't heard what exactly they were unified in. Maybe they were unified in the belief that they aren't all SOBs? I think the media coverage now is of the NFL vs Trump. It seems to me that the NFL took something that was messy and not well defined, and turned it into something that is bigger, messier, and even less defined.
 
Milwaukee

Milwaukee

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ATL1 said:
They're are measurables and easily accomplishable goals already presented.
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What are the easily accomplishable goals that were presented?

ATL1 said:
I've seen people mad about the flag protest with confederate flags literally plastered all over their vehicles. The hypocrisy is so blatant.
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I think the confederate flag is tacky, and it usually helps me easily identify people that I believe to be rednecks. Whether I'm wrong or right, that's just how I feel about that flag.

With that being said, what in the hell does that have to do with respecting the military? Confederate flag flying people can't be defensive about our military?

ATL1 said:
What are you really mad about. I don't believe it's from kneeling before a flag. Matter of fact I know it's not that.
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This is an odd statement. I think you're assuming the worst about everyone who doesn't appreciate the manner in which these guys are protesting. You "know its not that" sounds kind of creepy and dark. It sounds like you're thinking the people that are against this protest are just racist people? Maybe I'm missing what you're trying to imply, but you didn't spell it out so I'm trying to read between the lines. I can only speak for myself when I say you're not even close to accurate about why I'm on the side I'm on, if that's the case. People can protest and complain all they want before the anthem, but they need to stop and stand for the anthem. After the anthem they can go right back to protesting. That's how I feel about the situation, personally.
 

CoolHandluq

Georgia Tech Fan
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60
Tech93 said:
Sports used to be a place where we could get away from all the politics of society and enjoy competition. I watched a documentary on GPTV last night about our soldiers in the Vietnam war...think all these protesters should watch that documentary. I for one have quit watching NFL and as much as I like my beloved jackets, if they were to start this on the football team, I would drop my tickets.
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Thats not even close to being true ..... not huge fan of SouthPark but their member berries theme is so on point. Sports has always been a reflection of politics/culture from Jack Johnson being the heavyweight champ to Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier to the family of the Pittsburgh Pirates of the 70s...sports have been an influence and been influenced....What I dont understand is why everyone is so sensitive today..I remember GT games in the past when huge sections of the crowd didnt stand or remove their hats for the national anthem now everyone wants to act like they are super patriotic....
 
GT_05

GT_05

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CoolHandluq said:
Thats not even close to being true ..... not huge fan of SouthPark but their member berries theme is so on point. Sports has always been a reflection of politics/culture from Jack Johnson being the heavyweight champ to Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier to the family of the Pittsburgh Pirates of the 70s...sports have been an influence and been influenced....What I dont understand is why everyone is so sensitive today..I remember GT games in the past when huge sections of the crowd didnt stand or remove their hats for the national anthem now everyone wants to act like they are super patriotic....
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So you say that Tech93 is lying, accuse others of fake patriotism, and you accuse them of being "so sensitive"? It sounds like you may be the sensitive one, my friend.

Thanks for the SouthPark reference though. Everything makes perfect sense now.


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MWBATL

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Odd to me that some defending the anthem protests are attacking flying the confederate flag.

They are both offensive to large and important segments of society

They are often claimed to have different meaning than their opponents ascribe to them

Both are rights protected by the First Amendment

The only difference I can see is that NFL players insist on demonstrating in their workplace in their uniforms. Anyone who insisted on flying the confederate flag in such a way would be summarily terminated in today's toxic environment.

Beyond that, it all boils down to playground arguments. "It's OK because I agree with it" or words to that effect
 

Deleted member 2897

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Racist Dixiecrats didn't switch to Republicans. That's historical revisionism. Only 3 politicians formally switched to the Republican party. Look it up. There was no vast agreement between Democrats and Republicans to switch parties. That's just a complete joke.

Moving on, how about this - if it offends you that someone kneels for the anthem, how about you assume they are bowing in total and complete worshipping reverence to the flag instead. Or maybe assume they have really bad gas right now and they're trying to keep the smell down low so nobody will bust them for it. Its like my sister taught me on jerks who cut you off driving - just assume they have uncontrollable diarrhea and are just trying to get to a bathroom as fast as they can. It will make you care much less.
 
AE 87

AE 87

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Let's get back on target. Here is the quote from Kaepernick from last year (link):
"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."​
The premise of the protest is that the country "oppresses black people and people of color."

All of this stuff about taking the knee is respectful, is complete nonsense. It is a re-writing history. The NFL teams and owners who locked arms in protest against our flag this past Sunday, locked arms in tacit support to the idea that our nation oppresses black people and people of color.

In the 1960's, people protested the Vietnam conflict by burning the American flag. I disagreed with that then, but at least they had hard data points: the American military was taking action in Vietnam, and national law was compelling draft-age young men to joint the fight.

So, for @ATL1 and @kg01 and others who have said that there is a legitimate protest, lay it out. Let's have the conversation. Let's not just dismiss each other. If we can't have the conversation here as anonymous people who are yet bonded together by being fans of the same team, how can the conversation ever take place?

Let me begin. I have previously made long posts in which I lay out the case for the presence of systemic racism. I also made the case that much of the racial inequity of today's society can be traced to government action, especially from the back hand of New Deal policies, some of which helped African Americans with the open hand. So, I am not going to pretend that racial inequity doesn't exist, or that there aren't actual issues that need to be dealt with. However, I don't see evidence that the nation is actually oppressing people because of their skin color today.

So, anyone, make the case. Thesis: America oppresses black people and people of color.
 

Deleted member 2897

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I like ice cream. It is cold. It is tasty. It doesn't argue or discuss politics. Sometimes I put toppings on it. Yummy. Ice cream is good.
 

CoolHandluq

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
60
GT_05 said:
So you say that Tech93 is lying, accuse others of fake patriotism, and you accuse them of being "so sensitive"? It sounds like you may be the sensitive one, my friend.

Thanks for the SouthPark reference though. Everything makes perfect sense now.


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I didnt accuse any of lying I stated that his OPINION was wrong by stating Factual evidence. He stated an opinion based on his feelings, I countered with more than one empirical example to counter his opinion/point. He stated I remember when "X" when that never existed (hence the South Park reference in humor, people's memory is the least credible source of information). I could care less one way or the other on the protest. The only thing I have an issue with is we are talking more about the protest than the root of why any one is protesting (had the same opinion on Charlottesville).
I did not say it was fake patriotism, those are your words not mine...I only stated the fact that I have been going to games since '92 and people have sat through the anthem, talked through the anthem hell at pro sports had a beer during the anthem but now its the worst thing in the world to kneel during the anthem. The guy who told Kapernick to kneel as a sign of respect instead of sitting as he had been was US Army Vet, this whole thing is a distraction from things that really matter.
 
AE 87

AE 87

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There's a guy on stingtalk who spams threads that he doesn't like with orangutans or puking women. I guess ice cream is slightly more mature. o_O
 
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