Anthem Protests

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,995
I heard on the radio that Dan Quinn is asking all of the fans on Sunday to lock arms during the national anthem. Assuming the best intentions of all of the people involved(except Quinn and the NFL), this is disturbing to me for two reasons:

  1. If you are a protester who is trying to raise awareness of oppression and police brutality, your small protests to raise awareness have been co opted by the NFL as large protests in support of the NFL.
  2. If you are a person who revers the flag and national anthem as symbols of the USA, the flag and anthem have been co opted by the NFL. They are no longer symbols of the USA, they are symbols of the NFL
Whether there are protests or not, if the flag and anthem are going to be used as symbols of the NFL, or teams of the NFL instead of symbols of the USA, the flag should not be presented and the anthem should not be played.
 

Milwaukee

Banned
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7,277
Location
Milwaukee, WI
I heard on the radio that Dan Quinn is asking all of the fans on Sunday to lock arms during the national anthem. Assuming the best intentions of all of the people involved(except Quinn and the NFL), this is disturbing to me for two reasons:

  1. If you are a protester who is trying to raise awareness of oppression and police brutality, your small protests to raise awareness have been co opted by the NFL as large protests in support of the NFL.
  2. If you are a person who revers the flag and national anthem as symbols of the USA, the flag and anthem have been co opted by the NFL. They are no longer symbols of the USA, they are symbols of the NFL
Whether there are protests or not, if the flag and anthem are going to be used as symbols of the NFL, or teams of the NFL instead of symbols of the USA, the flag should not be presented and the anthem should not be played.

Packers doing this tonight, Falcons doing it Sunday. I don't have a problem with people doing it, although I think it's silly and wouldn't partake in the locking arms personally. You can hold hands, kiss each other on the cheek, whatever you wanna do as long as you're standing and at least halfway paying attention imo.
 

jeffgt14

We don't quite suck as much anymore.
Messages
5,879
Location
Mt Juliet, TN
I heard on the radio that Dan Quinn is asking all of the fans on Sunday to lock arms during the national anthem. Assuming the best intentions of all of the people involved(except Quinn and the NFL), this is disturbing to me for two reasons:

  1. If you are a protester who is trying to raise awareness of oppression and police brutality, your small protests to raise awareness have been co opted by the NFL as large protests in support of the NFL.
  2. If you are a person who revers the flag and national anthem as symbols of the USA, the flag and anthem have been co opted by the NFL. They are no longer symbols of the USA, they are symbols of the NFL
Whether there are protests or not, if the flag and anthem are going to be used as symbols of the NFL, or teams of the NFL instead of symbols of the USA, the flag should not be presented and the anthem should not be played.
This is just getting silly.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
To be clear, I said when both liberals and conservatives use it. IMO it sort of reiterates the reason why a solution can never be reached. Both sides think the other is incapable of having a rational discussion. Both sides think the other is too closed minded and hard headed to discuss something so they themselves refuse to discuss with an open mind.

So where are the moderates to lead us all back to sanity?
 

FredJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,241
Location
Fredericksburg, Virginia
I heard on the radio that Dan Quinn is asking all of the fans on Sunday to lock arms during the national anthem. Assuming the best intentions of all of the people involved(except Quinn and the NFL), this is disturbing to me for two reasons:

  1. If you are a protester who is trying to raise awareness of oppression and police brutality, your small protests to raise awareness have been co opted by the NFL as large protests in support of the NFL.
  2. If you are a person who revers the flag and national anthem as symbols of the USA, the flag and anthem have been co opted by the NFL. They are no longer symbols of the USA, they are symbols of the NFL
Whether there are protests or not, if the flag and anthem are going to be used as symbols of the NFL, or teams of the NFL instead of symbols of the USA, the flag should not be presented and the anthem should not be played.

It's official... we now have to figure out a way to protest protesting. Not a counter-protest which is holding the opposite (or decidedly different) position as the protestors (i.e. BLM v Nazi's). I'm talking about simply being anti-how/when to protest. How do you "express yourself" that this is not the time or place to do anything but stand up and honor the flag? It's quite difficult to CONSPICUOUSLY stand at attention with my mouth shut and eyes affixed on the flag.

You're telling me I pay for a ticket (an assigned seat)... then I'm going to be compelled to do something with the people around me. Perhaps its not different than my personal protest of the stupid Budweiser upsy downsy thingy. Lots of pressure there... but I don't cave. I love the song and the crescendo chorus(?).. but I can do without the associated 'dance'. Just me, though. GO JACKETS!!
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
It's official... we now have to figure out a way to protest protesting. Not a counter-protest which is holding the opposite (or decidedly different) position as the protestors (i.e. BLM v Nazi's). I'm talking about simply being anti-how/when to protest. How do you "express yourself" that this is not the time or place to do anything but stand up and honor the flag? It's quite difficult to CONSPICUOUSLY stand at attention with my mouth shut and eyes affixed on the flag.

You're telling me I pay for a ticket (an assigned seat)... then I'm going to be compelled to do something with the people around me. Perhaps its not different than my personal protest of the stupid Budweiser upsy downsy thingy. Lots of pressure there... but I don't cave. I love the song and the crescendo chorus(?).. but I can do without the associated 'dance'. Just me, though. GO JACKETS!!

There is a difference between you, a fan in the stands, and an official representative of the institute. Therein lies the difference.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,026
To be clear, I said when both liberals and conservatives use it. IMO it sort of reiterates the reason why a solution can never be reached. Both sides think the other is incapable of having a rational discussion. Both sides think the other is too closed minded and hard headed to discuss something so they themselves refuse to discuss with an open mind.

Right. Give me a break. My previous post was a sincere invitation to dialogue.

To take my reaction to people spamming my invitation out of that context to suggest that I'm the closed minded one is disgusting.

The bottom of my shoe deserves better than you.
 
Messages
861
Ae87
My thoughts are this in 2016 more whites were shot and killed by police than blacks. It is a fact now if you go by statistics percentage wise blacks were more likely to be shot by police. Ok I get that but then when we go to welfare or food stamp distributions the black community likes to say well more white collect than blacks but statistically the opposite is true. The facts are this people are gonna use whatever narrative fits their agenda and dig deep enough and the truth is somewhere in the middle.
 

jeffgt14

We don't quite suck as much anymore.
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5,879
Location
Mt Juliet, TN
Right. Give me a break. My previous post was a sincere invitation to dialogue.

To take my reaction to people spamming my invitation out of that context to suggest that I'm the closed minded one is disgusting.

The bottom of my shoe deserves better than you.
I never once said that. I said I hate the phrase “(insert liberals or conservatives here) are afraid/incapable of having a rational discussion”. You asked me why and I responded with why I hate that phrase.
 
Messages
861
Every child born in America receives a FREE education from pre K through 12th grade. If there are those economically challenged FREE breakfast and lunches are provided. So opportunity is there, now if it's not being utilized whose fault is it. This is where personal responsibility and accountability come into play. If you are being held "down" it is NOONES fault but your own. And don't give me the missing father syndrome I know several children who had no father and they are successful. See it all revolves around responsibility and accountability and that is what people do not want to face or admit. Excuses are like a holes everybody has one. But facts remain the same.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,026
Ae87
My thoughts are this in 2016 more whites were shot and killed by police than blacks. It is a fact now if you go by statistics percentage wise blacks were more likely to be shot by police. Ok I get that but then when we go to welfare or food stamp distributions the black community likes to say well more white collect than blacks but statistically the opposite is true. The facts are this people are gonna use whatever narrative fits their agenda and dig deep enough and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

I have no idea of your point or why you tagged me.

The thesis of the protest is that America oppresses black people and people of color.

The observation that some people abuse statistics on both sides is irrelevant.
 
Messages
861
No ae87 that is supposedly what the protests are about. If so why are the protestors not out in front of the LOCAL police stations. Why be disrespectful to our national symbols using a false narrative. And I wasn't calling you out I was presenting the evidence I see to have a discussion if I offended was not intended and I do apologize sir.
 

Peacone36

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Maine
Do we really need to raise awareness of brutality and racism or do we need to solve the issue? This has been going on for a year now and not once has any of these guys stood in front of a camera and suggested a solution. If they actually promoted their good deeds (Lebron sending kids to college, Kaps efforts with local youths) the reception and publicity would be warmly welcomed instead of being divisive. But that **** doesnt sell newspapers so whatever.

How long are these guys going to kneel? forever? Use your words and open a dialogue or stand the **** up.
 

Squints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,254
I haven't read this whole thread. Can someone tell me what all the kneeling is about? I have no idea what they are protesting. And please go into more detail than just "oppression".

Since I don't think anyone attempted to answer your question I'll take a swing at it. I'm going to try and keep as much of my opinion out of is as possible

Sometime before the 2016 NFL season Colin Kaepernick decided that he was no longer going to stand for the national anthem at the beginning of games. For the first two games of the preseason he sat on the bench while it was played. No one noticed and he did not call attention to what he was doing. Before the third game of the preseason a member of the sports media (I think Sports Illustrated?) saw him doing it and tweeted a picture about it. When asked after the game why he did not stand Kaepernick said:

I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.

So, agree with him or not, that's why he said he was doing it. He put out a much more expanded statement a couple days later. During all this, all hell broke loose.

Kaepernick went from sitting to kneeling after discussing the issue with Nate Boyer, a former Green Beret and NFL player, who had written an open letter to Kaepernick about what he was doing. They settled, for lack of a better word, on kneeling as it is usually a sign of respect citing what soldiers do in front of a fallen brother's grave. There were a couple of other examples I heard but I honestly can't remember if it was Boyer himself who mentioned them or someone else so I'm not gonna mention them here.

A few players joined him but it really wasn't a huge amount of them. Kaepernick said after the season he would stand for the anthem henceforth.

As for this past weekend, it's related but different. Last Friday our President held a rally in Alabama to support Luther Strange in the Republican primary for Jeff Sessions' vacated Senate seat. During that rally The President referred to anyone that "disrespects the flag" as "a son of a *****" and he would fire them immediately if he were an NFL owner. He then proceeded to take shots at the NFL for other stuff (ratings, game is soft, etc). The protests had died down for the most part but as a result of this outburst you get what happened this past weekend as a show of solidarity. So like I said it's related to what Kaepernick did but I would say the motivation is less oriented on social justice this time than civil disobedience. Unsurprisingly, this part of the issue has gotten little to no discussion in this thread.
 
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