ACC Standings

RamblinRed

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
5,741
From Sickos Committee, lamenting the loss of the annual Atlantic vs Coastal championship.
Though, we’re just the chaos agent that could wreck the championship game
View attachment 15164
The issues with this are that all the schedules would have been different, so all of the records would be different.

From a GT perspective you would only have played one game against L'ville, BC, Wake and Syracuse and would pick up games against VT, Duke and Pitt.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,546
The issues with this are that all the schedules would have been different, so all of the records would be different.

From a GT perspective you would only have played one game against L'ville, BC, Wake and Syracuse and would pick up games against VT, Duke and Pitt.
Pitt isn't that much different than Syracuse and Wake. VT and Duke are about equivalent to BC. No way to know how it would have actually worked out, but I think it is likely that GT would have only lost 2 ACC games. Likely that would have been good enough to win the Coastal, or go to a tie-breaker for the Coastal.

As you said, the games and schedules would have been different, so there is now way of actually knowing what would have happened. It has been a heck of a year. Some ups. Some downs. But GT can finish no worse than 4th in the conference this year. I think if we had a poll in June about whether people would be happy with that it would have been an overwhelming positive response.
 

forensicbuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,124
Location
North Shore, Chicago
Pitt isn't that much different than Syracuse and Wake. VT and Duke are about equivalent to BC. No way to know how it would have actually worked out, but I think it is likely that GT would have only lost 2 ACC games. Likely that would have been good enough to win the Coastal, or go to a tie-breaker for the Coastal.

As you said, the games and schedules would have been different, so there is now way of actually knowing what would have happened. It has been a heck of a year. Some ups. Some downs. But GT can finish no worse than 4th in the conference this year. I think if we had a poll in June about whether people would be happy with that it would have been an overwhelming positive response.
No question. Had we played a different schedule, we would have won every game we played. Well, at least we wouldn't have lost a single game we played.
 

stinger78

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,032
Pitt isn't that much different than Syracuse and Wake. VT and Duke are about equivalent to BC. No way to know how it would have actually worked out, but I think it is likely that GT would have only lost 2 ACC games. Likely that would have been good enough to win the Coastal, or go to a tie-breaker for the Coastal.

As you said, the games and schedules would have been different, so there is now way of actually knowing what would have happened. It has been a heck of a year. Some ups. Some downs. But GT can finish no worse than 4th in the conference this year. I think if we had a poll in June about whether people would be happy with that it would have been an overwhelming positive response.
I think BC would have been our normal rotation opponent for 2023. If so, that means Syracuse and Wake would have actually been Dook and VPI. Somewhat tougher opponents, for sure, but I think we would have a very good shot at beating both of them, too. Dook, 6-5 (3-4), and VPI, 5-6 (4-3) aren't juggernauts either.

I'm an adherent of the "you are what you are" thinking. Yes, we've lost a couple we "should" (there's that word again) have won, but we didn't, and we also won a couple we "should" have lost, so they tend to balance out. We're basically just a 6-5 team.
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,440
We have been a reasonably healthy team this year. If Jamal, Singleton, or King had been severely injured the offense would have been hampered. Same with key losses on both lines. Duke is not the same time without Leonard. Syracuse not the same with their QB out. We have gotten through the season in pretty good shape. That has helped keep us competitive.
 

CEB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,154
We have been a reasonably healthy team this year. If Jamal, Singleton, or King had been severely injured the offense would have been hampered. Same with key losses on both lines. Duke is not the same time without Leonard. Syracuse not the same with their QB out. We have gotten through the season in pretty good shape. That has helped keep us competitive.
For most of college football, this is absolutely critical. Having depth is one thing, but only the factories can truly be “next man up.” For everyone else, losing your first string anything is a significant setback. Losing a stud QB is nearly catastrophic unless you’re tOSU, Bama, UGA, etc.
FSU is definitely building, but as good as they look, they aren’t to the point where they will overcome the loss of Travis. I’ll be very impressed if they win the next two.
Point being, the health of our O can’t be overemphasized in discussing their success this season… and dear Lord, please everyone healthy for two more!
 

stinger78

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,032
For most of college football, this is absolutely critical. Having depth is one thing, but only the factories can truly be “next man up.” For everyone else, losing your first string anything is a significant setback. Losing a stud QB is nearly catastrophic unless you’re tOSU, Bama, UGA, etc.
FSU is definitely building, but as good as they look, they aren’t to the point where they will overcome the loss of Travis. I’ll be very impressed if they win the next two.
Point being, the health of our O can’t be overemphasized in discussing their success this season… and dear Lord, please everyone healthy for two more!
Tate Rodemaker was a high-3 recruit out of Valdosta HS in the 2020 class and is now a JR at FSU. He's not Travis but I'd bet he can run the O pretty well. Wouldn't surprise me to see him step up and beat UF and UL, though a loss would really either.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,546
For most of college football, this is absolutely critical. Having depth is one thing, but only the factories can truly be “next man up.” For everyone else, losing your first string anything is a significant setback. Losing a stud QB is nearly catastrophic unless you’re tOSU, Bama, UGA, etc.
FSU is definitely building, but as good as they look, they aren’t to the point where they will overcome the loss of Travis. I’ll be very impressed if they win the next two.
Point being, the health of our O can’t be overemphasized in discussing their success this season… and dear Lord, please everyone healthy for two more!
Actually, I have read some commentators say that the transfer portal has hurt the factories more than lower teams for this reason. According to them, the factories used to be three to four deep at four star players who would wait until their JR or SR year to start. When they lost the four/five star DE to injury a four/five star DE took over. When he was injured or needed to rest, another four/five star DE took over. When he needed to rest, another four/five star DE replaced him. Those 3rd/4th string players are not waiting to start any longer and transferring to a place where they can start and get NIL money. Even 2nd strings in some cases.

I haven't gone through rosters and analyzed transfers to be able to say that this is correct. However, it would help explain why football seems to be more even this year than it has been the past 10 years or so. There are still several undefeated teams, but there aren't any that are clearly unbeatable. If this was a BCS year, you could just as easily draw numbers as decide who the best two teams in college football are.
 

CEB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,154
Tate Rodemaker was a high-3 recruit out of Valdosta HS in the 2020 class and is now a JR at FSU. He's not Travis but I'd bet he can run the O pretty well. Wouldn't surprise me to see him step up and beat UF and UL, though a loss would really either.
It’s going to be interesting to watch…
 

CEB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,154
Actually, I have read some commentators say that the transfer portal has hurt the factories more than lower teams for this reason. According to them, the factories used to be three to four deep at four star players who would wait until their JR or SR year to start. When they lost the four/five star DE to injury a four/five star DE took over. When he was injured or needed to rest, another four/five star DE took over. When he needed to rest, another four/five star DE replaced him. Those 3rd/4th string players are not waiting to start any longer and transferring to a place where they can start and get NIL money. Even 2nd strings in some cases.

I haven't gone through rosters and analyzed transfers to be able to say that this is correct. However, it would help explain why football seems to be more even this year than it has been the past 10 years or so. There are still several undefeated teams, but there aren't any that are clearly unbeatable. If this was a BCS year, you could just as easily draw numbers as decide who the best two teams in college football are.
I can see that.. and it makes sense intuitively. I don’t know if I’m buying yet, but it’s certainly plausible. I would think they could also go poach better developed guys who can be more rotational in nature than a true #2 or #3. It’s probably true that they can’t hold on to talent and develop it for 2-3 years as much as they could before, but I don’t know if it really hurts them.
All conjecture on my part too… I’m not analyzing rosters or even studying the analysis of others! :D
 

RamblinRed

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
5,741
Actually, I have read some commentators say that the transfer portal has hurt the factories more than lower teams for this reason. According to them, the factories used to be three to four deep at four star players who would wait until their JR or SR year to start. When they lost the four/five star DE to injury a four/five star DE took over. When he was injured or needed to rest, another four/five star DE took over. When he needed to rest, another four/five star DE replaced him. Those 3rd/4th string players are not waiting to start any longer and transferring to a place where they can start and get NIL money. Even 2nd strings in some cases.

I haven't gone through rosters and analyzed transfers to be able to say that this is correct. However, it would help explain why football seems to be more even this year than it has been the past 10 years or so. There are still several undefeated teams, but there aren't any that are clearly unbeatable. If this was a BCS year, you could just as easily draw numbers as decide who the best two teams in college football are.
I actually think it is the reverse.
The potential fallacy in their position is that they are treating the portal as a one way stop and it is not.
While players who are not contributing at the blue blood schools are transferring out, they are offsetting this by bringing in guys who are playing at other schools.
My belief is that the blue bloods are coming out on the better end of the deal.

If you look at the teams that are serious contenders for the CFP, it is largely the same set of schools every year. Mostly the Top 10 schools in terms of revenue. There is the odd school year to year, but nothing that suggests that it is becoming a more even playing field. If anything, the field appears to be tipping to the highest revenue schools.
 

UgaBlows

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,402
I actually think it is the reverse.
The potential fallacy in their position is that they are treating the portal as a one way stop and it is not.
While players who are not contributing at the blue blood schools are transferring out, they are offsetting this by bringing in guys who are playing at other schools.
My belief is that the blue bloods are coming out on the better end of the deal.

If you look at the teams that are serious contenders for the CFP, it is largely the same set of schools every year. Mostly the Top 10 schools in terms of revenue. There is the odd school year to year, but nothing that suggests that it is becoming a more even playing field. If anything, the field appears to be tipping to the highest revenue schools.
Yes, the factories are bringing in starters from smaller schools to replace guys who couldn’t break the 2-deep and left
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
10,825
Actually, I have read some commentators say that the transfer portal has hurt the factories more than lower teams for this reason. According to them, the factories used to be three to four deep at four star players who would wait until their JR or SR year to start. When they lost the four/five star DE to injury a four/five star DE took over. When he was injured or needed to rest, another four/five star DE took over. When he needed to rest, another four/five star DE replaced him. Those 3rd/4th string players are not waiting to start any longer and transferring to a place where they can start and get NIL money. Even 2nd strings in some cases.

I haven't gone through rosters and analyzed transfers to be able to say that this is correct. However, it would help explain why football seems to be more even this year than it has been the past 10 years or so. There are still several undefeated teams, but there aren't any that are clearly unbeatable. If this was a BCS year, you could just as easily draw numbers as decide who the best two teams in college football are.
UGA, Bama, Ohio State, and Michigan don’t seem to have lost anything, and are probably ahead overall. Clemson may have lost out, but that’s mainly due to not participating; it’s probably even helped open some spots for other players. FSUs comeback probably ties somewhat to the portal.
On the other hand, Ole Miss isn’t a CFP contender, but they’re a lot stronger than they would be without the portal.
Free agency in the NBA is a good example. The Lakers have no problem reloading—it’s just a question of how good their decisions are. Milwaukee can watch a team get gutted though. Houston might see the worst of it—they know how to build a team through the draft, and other teams take their best players. OKC got ripped apart. It’s faster to build a contender, and you don’t know who might become a contender either. The NBA royalty (LA, Boston) still thrives, when they don’t shoot themselves in the foot.
 

RonJohn

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,546
UGA, Bama, Ohio State, and Michigan don’t seem to have lost anything, and are probably ahead overall. Clemson may have lost out, but that’s mainly due to not participating; it’s probably even helped open some spots for other players. FSUs comeback probably ties somewhat to the portal.
On the other hand, Ole Miss isn’t a CFP contender, but they’re a lot stronger than they would be without the portal.
Free agency in the NBA is a good example. The Lakers have no problem reloading—it’s just a question of how good their decisions are. Milwaukee can watch a team get gutted though. Houston might see the worst of it—they know how to build a team through the draft, and other teams take their best players. OKC got ripped apart. It’s faster to build a contender, and you don’t know who might become a contender either. The NBA royalty (LA, Boston) still thrives, when they don’t shoot themselves in the foot.
I don't think those teams have lost anything with their starters. It is the depth that the articles I read were discussing. Several years ago in the championship game, Jalen Hurts wasn't effective in the first half. Saban decided to replace him with Tua Tagovailoa after the half. They had a QB starter who was selected in the second round. His backup was selected #5 overall in the draft. Hurts transferred out because he graduated and was able to get immediate eligibility. Now, a potential draft player can transfer out at any time if he sees that he isn't likely to be the starter. He doesn't have to wait until he graduates.

It isn't that Alabama won't be able to get NFL draft level players. It just appears that they will have issues hanging onto NFL draft level players for more than a year buried in the depth chart. They can pull in good players from lower level teams, but the only reason they need to is that they don't have the next guy up waiting on the bench any longer.
 

slugboy

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
10,825
I looked at Bama on 247 (first hit that came up on Google). At QB, they have four 4* and one 5* QB’s. They have 18 5* players in their roster, and I counted 56 4* players. I counted 23 seniors, with one 5* and a lot of 4*’s.

I looked at the Transfer Portal “scoreboard”, and aside from Colorado, it’s the usual suspects. Bama and UGA aren’t on there, but they’re loaded.


Bama only brought in 5 while 21 left, but they had the #1 class of high school recruits and #1 overall (including transfers). As far as I can see, the big factories just reload.

In the talent composite, no one seems to be catching up to the big factories—maybe there’s rearranging


Also, good lord Auburn, Michigan State, South Carolina, Nebraska, and Florida. There are some theoretically “loaded” teams that might not make bowls.
 
Last edited:

roadkill

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,120
I actually think it is the reverse.
The potential fallacy in their position is that they are treating the portal as a one way stop and it is not.
While players who are not contributing at the blue blood schools are transferring out, they are offsetting this by bringing in guys who are playing at other schools.
My belief is that the blue bloods are coming out on the better end of the deal.

If you look at the teams that are serious contenders for the CFP, it is largely the same set of schools every year. Mostly the Top 10 schools in terms of revenue. There is the odd school year to year, but nothing that suggests that it is becoming a more even playing field. If anything, the field appears to be tipping to the highest revenue schools.
I looked at Bama on 247 (first hit that came up on Google). At QB, they have four 4* and one 5* QB’s. They have 18 5* players in their roster, and I counted 56 4* players. I counted 23 seniors, with one 5* and a lot of 4*’s.

I looked at the Transfer Portal “scoreboard”, and aside from Colorado, it’s the usual suspects. Bama and UGA aren’t on there, but they’re loaded.


Bama only brought in 5 while 21 left, but they had the #1 class of high school recruits and #1 overall (including transfers). As far as I can see, the big factories just reload.

The perennial CFP contenders may have enough 4-5 star depth where a handful of transfers out don't make a material difference in team strength. If they do bring in some guys from the portal, they can be very selective. So I don't think the portal hurts them, and may help. And Blueblood + NIL money means they will likely stay a blueblood.

NIL is another variable, and it can benefit some schools at the expense of others who aren't able to play that game as well.

The type of schools that the portal can hurt a good bit are ones with good talent but underperforming. Texas A$M is a good example. We've obviously benefitted from that on offense, and in my opinion, have realized a net gain for transfers on that side of the ball. And now that Jimbo is gone, we may benefit some more. This highlights another point - when you have an underperforming factory, their coaches tend to have a relatively short tenure, which can lead to a bunch of transfer opportunities for lower-tier schools. I think GT has an advantage over many of our peer schools in that Atlanta is a talent-rich area, and being able to offer a potential transfer an opportunity to come home is a plus.
 

FredJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,065
Location
Fredericksburg, Virginia
Asking because I don't know (& want to)...

Assuming...
Ga Tech is not one of these "elite" programs.
Ga Tech is a middling P5 (not a criticism)

How much credit does portal get... for GA TECH winning more than projected in 2023?

I just believe 2023 is "beginning" of trend where portal does result in more parity.... simple logic & math means any given year only 8-10 teams will be in contention for a national championship. It's literally 8 this year... all pretty even. Fun.
 

stinger78

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,032
I looked at Bama on 247 (first hit that came up on Google). At QB, they have four 4* and one 5* QB’s. They have 18 5* players in their roster, and I counted 56 4* players. I counted 23 seniors, with one 5* and a lot of 4*’s.

I looked at the Transfer Portal “scoreboard”, and aside from Colorado, it’s the usual suspects. Bama and UGA aren’t on there, but they’re loaded.


Bama only brought in 5 while 21 left, but they had the #1 class of high school recruits and #1 overall (including transfers). As far as I can see, the big factories just reload.

In the talent composite, no one seems to be catching up to the big factories—maybe there’s rearranging


Also, good lord Auburn, Michigan State, South Carolina, Nebraska, and Florida. There are some theoretically “loaded” teams that might not make bowls.
This all just a new version of what Coach Dodd deplored about the SEC in his day. He hated what he called the "free tryout" the factories were creating by cutting players who didn't pan out to make room for more recruits. He wouldn't do it and so it created a competitive disadvantage. In my mind, of course it creates an advantage for the team that can stockpile top talent year after year, let their non-contributors go, and then stockpile some more. In that system, we'll get the factories' castoffs, who are good enough to help us, but will still leave us behind the factories since they are just piling up more and more top talent. So, it helps both. How much relative to one another, I don't know. That would be hard to determine, but it seems likely it's helping them more.
 

Heisman's Ghost

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,399
Location
Albany Georgia
I actually think it is the reverse.
The potential fallacy in their position is that they are treating the portal as a one way stop and it is not.
While players who are not contributing at the blue blood schools are transferring out, they are offsetting this by bringing in guys who are playing at other schools.
My belief is that the blue bloods are coming out on the better end of the deal.

If you look at the teams that are serious contenders for the CFP, it is largely the same set of schools every year. Mostly the Top 10 schools in terms of revenue. There is the odd school year to year, but nothing that suggests that it is becoming a more even playing field. If anything, the field appears to be tipping to the highest revenue schools.
I don't think that there is any question that this is the correct take. The elite factories are getting whoever they want and the rest are getting shafted with former 4 and 5 stars that became busts. The gulf is therefore becoming ever wider between the elite dozen or so teams and the also rans. IIWII
 
Top