ACC Discussion

[kg01]

I don't believe UNC is nearly the bag dropper dook is. Not saying they don't, just saying dook far exceeds them.

I'd say the difference is probably that Duke has it down to a corporate-level science. UNC is probably still old school with their bag droppin'.

 

[DH9387]

Syracuse Head Coach Jim Boeheim Hit, Killed Pedestrian in Car Accident

"The driver, James Boeheim 74, of Fayetteville NY struck the victim who was standing on the side of the road," a portion of the statement read. "Both drivers remained on scene and are cooperating with this investigation. Field sobriety and alco-sensor tests for both drivers were negative for any signs of impairment."

The victim of Wednesday's accident reportedly exited his vehicle near Thompson Road in Syracuse around midnight before he was struck by Boeheim's car. Conditions in Syracuse were "icy" according to Thursday's report, though it's unclear whether the conditions affected Boeheim's involvement in Wednesday's accident.

Legendary Syracuse basketball coach Jim Boeheim involved in fatal car accident, district attorney says

Boeheim was driving in bad weather when he hit a man who was already outside of his vehicle and involved in a separate crash, Onondaga County District Attorney Bill Fitzpatrick told WSYR.

Boeheim attempted to avoid the vehicle but ended up hitting the man, police said.

 

[gtbync]

https://www.syracuse.com/crime/2019...-boeheim-hits-kills-man-walking-on-i-690.html

 

[CuseJacket]

I like to make fun of Jim as much as the next person, but this is indeed really awful for everyone. Sounds like Jim had no fault in the accident based on what I can read - but you can be sure he's going to have nightmares about that sound and impact for a long time.

I've had multiple nightmares about this exact situation and it's only hypothetical. The worst part is the never-ending guilt and remorse regardless of culpability. Now he has to live it awake and when asleep. Awful. And that's only one side of it. The other is the victim and his family.

Gameday is Saturday in Syracuse for Duke vs. Cuse. Never could have imagined how the story lines changed in the last 12 hours.

 

[RamblinRed]

That's awful on so many levels.
Horrible for the man who lost his life. Horrible for the person that hit him.

 

[RamblinRed]

As i've mentioned before I keep track of ACC players during ACC games to create a ranking. Now that we are 2/3 of the way through the season I updated it all.
This is through games of Sunday. Right now I am tracking 129 players. They have to have played in at least 80% of ACC games or be avg more than 10 mpg in ACC games. I'm mainly trying to get all the regulars. Don't care about players that play in one game, or play 2 mpg. That translates to an avg of 8.6 players per program. Some have more some have less.

Right now the top 5 are
Williamson -Duke
Barrett - Duke
Blackshear - VT
White - UNC
Johnson - Pitt

Note that 4 of the top 5 are FR. But in the Top 20 there are 5 FR - Tre Jones is #19, 4 Sr or Grads, 6 Jr, 5 So.
So while you get the real cream of the crop of the FR at the top, you really don't get a ton of FR after that. You tend to get alot of FR and SO toward the lower end of the rankings.
Williamson's overall Eff/GM number would be the highest i've seen in the 5 years i've done this - currently at 37.42
The top rated Jacket right now is Banks at #27.- That is basically unchanged from the last time I updated the numbers which was after 6 games.
Next is Alvarado at #36 (dropping from #17 as he was in that big slump, last's nights game will help his standing).
Then Devoe at #40 (up from #49 previously). Devoe is currently the #9 FR behind the 5 mentioned above as well as Reddish #25, Hoard #26, and McGowens #33. Note that 6 of the top 7 FR were 5* players in HS.

Then AD at #55 (was #59 after 6 games)
Haywood is at #87 (was at #65 before his huge slump).
Moore at #96 - basically unchanged
Cole at #110 - basically unchanged
Sjolund #116 - he was not being tracked after 6 games. If he continues to play as he has the last 3 he will move up
Wright at #119 - basically unchanged.

So right now i would say GT has three solid ACC starters - Banks, Jose and Devoe.
One below avg starter - AD.
Then we really dropped off a cliff. Haywood was a borderline starter status after 6 games, he is at avg backup after 12 games.
And then it really drops.
Sjolund has the most opportunity to rise up as he basically wasn't playing until 2 weeks ago.
Over the last 6 games, outside of UVA, GT is largely playing lower level ACC teams so it will be interesting to see where guys end up after the whole 18 games season.

 

[RamblinRed]

one correction. Moore was at #86 after 6 games so he is down slightly.

It should not be a big surprise that most ratings went down. That middle stretch was brutal both in terms of the level of competition and the results.

I tweaked this over the years and prefer efficiency per game metrics to efficiency per possession or minute metrics because the per possession metrics will often overrate some players. For example, if you used my eff per min metric or the PER, then Jay Huff of UVA would be ranked as one of the 10-15 best players in the conference. But i feel like if he really was one of the 10 best players in the conference Bennett would play him more than 9 mpg. in my per game metric he ranks #99.

You can decide for yourself if you like the rankings - here are the Top 20
Williamson - Duke 37.42
Barrett - Duke 29.25
Blackshear - VT 25.43
White - UNC 25.29
Johnson - Pitt 25.08
Robinson - VT 25.00
Johnson - UNC 24.21
Reed - Clem 23.96
Bowman - BC 23.58
Alexander-Walker - VT 22.64
Battle - Syr 22.33
Mooney - ND 22.00
Jerome - UVA 21.71
Lykes - Mia 21.46
Kabengele - FSU 20.33
Hunter - UVA 20.08
Nwora - L'ville 19.46
Maye - UNC 19.46
Jones - Duke 19.05
Gibbs - ND 19.05

In past years 20 has been close to the cutoff for All-ACC level players and that appears to be holding again. i usually get 1 or 2 players per year that avg close to 30, so that 37.42 is sort of insane.

 

[jeffgt14]

Zion does a great job playing within himself which really improves his efficiency. Doesn't need to shoot outside and doesn't need to have the ball in his hands so he can get rebounds and score around the rim. He's also unstoppable on the fast break. Certainly benefits tremendously in this regard by being on a team with RJ Barrett. Barrett probably shoots too much but he can pull that off when you have a top 10 offensive rebounder in Zion.

 

[kg01]

Zion does a great job playing within himself which really improves his efficiency. Doesn't need to shoot outside and doesn't need to have the ball in his hands so he can get rebounds and score around the rim. He's also unstoppable on the fast break. Certainly benefits tremendously in this regard by being on a team with RJ Barrett. Barrett probably shoots too much but he can pull that off when you have a top 10 offensive rebounder in Zion.

That's a good way of putting it. It's why I'm sort of dubious of his pro prospects. I know he'll be picked first and I know he'll make all kinds of highlights and all that.

But, in terms of winning, he won't be able to hide his weaknesses. I highly doubt he's been asked to work on them because, at this point, he hasn't had to. His time at Duke is no different.

Like I said, he'll be picked 1st and I get why. However, he's not the 'sure-thing' folks are saying he is.

 

[jeffgt14]

I’m in the Barrett camp. I don’t believe Zion can take over a team like Barrett can. Now the tank job being done by the Suns may be beneficial to Zion because that team has loads of talent to begin with that Zion could compliment but Zion isn’t turning around the Knicks or Cavs.

 

[CuseJacket]

That's a good way of putting it. It's why I'm sort of dubious of his pro prospects. I know he'll be picked first and I know he'll make all kinds of highlights and all that.

But, in terms of winning, he won't be able to hide his weaknesses. I highly doubt he's been asked to work on them because, at this point, he hasn't had to. His time at Duke is no different.

Like I said, he'll be picked 1st and I get why. However, he's not the 'sure-thing' folks are saying he is.

Devil's advocate... many folks said Zion wouldn't be able to overcome his weaknesses, especially his ability to shoot, in college. I was in that group and was wrong.

His skill set and ability is unique to the point where Bennett, Boeheim, Roy, etc. have said they've never seen anything like it before in their career. I'm in that group too

And, starting with NBA All-Star caliber athleticism and still having potential to improve is basically how the NBA has drafted for as long as I can remember, even without the highlights and ticket sales that will come with Zion.

 

[Peacone36]

Devil's advocate... many folks said Zion wouldn't be able to overcome his weaknesses, especially his ability to shoot, in college. I was in that group and was wrong.

His skill set and ability is unique to the point where Bennett, Boeheim, Roy, etc. have said they've never seen anything like it before in their career. I'm in that group too

And, starting with NBA All-Star caliber athleticism and still having potential to improve is basically how the NBA has drafted for as long as I can remember, even without the highlights and ticket sales that will come with Zion.

I was wrong as well

 

[kg01]

Devil's advocate... many folks said Zion wouldn't be able to overcome his weaknesses, especially his ability to shoot, in college. I was in that group and was wrong.

His skill set and ability is unique to the point where Bennett, Boeheim, Roy, etc. have said they've never seen anything like it before in their career. I'm in that group too

And, starting with NBA All-Star caliber athleticism and still having potential to improve is basically how the NBA has drafted for as long as I can remember, even without the highlights and ticket sales that will come with Zion.

No one at the college level was ever going to be able to exploit his weaknesses. And nice of you to put yourself in the group with those coaches. Any interest in coaching this school I'm thinking of? It's in the middle of a big city. Got some pretty hefty academic standards. That's all I'll say about it for now.

I was wrong as well

I would sig this but nothing beats Strahan's comment.

 

[YlJacket]

He will be a good pro as is. He will be a great pro if he improves his jumper to a legit 3 point threat. I am assuming he will adjust his body down 10-15 lbs to improve his quickness - but that isn't hard for a guy like him. He will still be an uber athletic player even by NBA standards. And like most anyone not named LeBron he will need a good to really good coach and supporting cast to maximize his impact.

I too would probably take Barrett but wouldn't argue at all if Zion is the pick.

As an aside, the player that really helps Zion is Tre Jones. Tre sets the defensive tone for them and allows Zion and others to sit in passing lanes looking for live ball turnovers. His efficiency stats are really helped by the number of times he gets the ball in transition with a clear path to the basket off those turnovers. I ain't getting in front of him and most of the ACC has a similar healthy respect for their own body.

 

[CuseJacket]

No one at the college level was ever going to be able to exploit his weaknesses. And nice of you to put yourself in the group with those coaches. Any interest in coaching this school I'm thinking of? It's in the middle of a big city. Got some pretty hefty academic standards. That's all I'll say about it for now.



I would sig this but nothing beats Strahan's comment.

Before I can accept said hypothetical position, you'll have to edu-ma-cate me on how the NBA will exploit Zion's weaknesses. I assume it's not simply "they're bigger and better", which was my school of thought for the college jump.

 

[jeffgt14]

I’m certainly not saying Zion will be a huge bust. I don’t think he’s the 2nd coming of Lebron like some talking heads are saying and I don’t think he should be a sure fire #1 pick. I only joke about him being Tractor Traylor 2.0. I’d consider him a Small Forward version of Shaq in terms of physically dominating but I’m not sure how well that physically dominating as a Forward compares to physically dominating as a 7’2 Center. If I was the Suns I’d certainly draft Zion #1 overall but I’d go Barrett if I was the Knicks or any other team that literally has zero pieces in place.

Of course you could draft Zion and then tank for a dominate guard to compliment him.

 

[CuseJacket]

I ain't getting in front of him and most of the ACC has a similar healthy respect for their own body.

I think GT fans will appreciate this:

 

[kg01]

Before I can accept said hypothetical position, you'll have to edu-ma-cate me on how the NBA will exploit Zion's weaknesses. I assume it's not simply "they're bigger and better", which was my school of thought for the college jump.

He'll be able to put up counting stats (pts, rebs) and will be able to get to the line a bunch. For him to impact winning, he'll have to be able to shoot and handle better. A steady diet of duck-ins and fast breaks will have a shelf-life, especially if he reaches the playoffs where fouls are harder to come by.

He'll be fine but he won't be this transcendent force until he puts work in on his game. Unfortunately, he can make a great career for himself (lots of money/endorsements) without ever doing that. The question will be how good he wants to be.

 

[YlJacket]

I think GT fans will appreciate this:

Since the Syracuse prof defined Dolezaj as being a defenseless player, can we get a booth review to see if Zion should be ejected for the rest of the game and possibly the first half of the next game?

 

[CuseJacket]

He'll be able to put up counting stats (pts, rebs) and will be able to get to the line a bunch. For him to impact winning, he'll have to be able to shoot and handle better. A steady diet of duck-ins and fast breaks will have a shelf-life, especially if he reaches the playoffs where fouls are harder to come by.

He'll be fine but he won't be this transcendent force until he puts work in on his game. Unfortunately, he can make a great career for himself (lots of money/endorsements) without ever doing that. The question will be how good he wants to be.

Serious question, have you watched much of Duke this year? I'm basing my opinion on watching him score in the half court this year. I've been surprised by his ability to slash, score in traffic and through contact, and of course get up for 2nd chance points and rebounds. I'm not saying that'll be just as easy in the NBA, but I don't see his performance this year as solely fast breaks, which is what I assumed he'd be held to coming out of HS (many of the fast breaks he created from his defense, for what it's worth).

It could also be that he's not really that effective in the half court... it's solely an opinion based on watching him and possibly me having a low bar in terms of expectations coming in. I've caught only a handful of Duke games, but they're generally the ones against top teams. So, my perception could be off base.

ETA: I'm not convinced he will be transcendent or the next LeBron. That is a high bar, and like you he'll need to show me something to earn that praise.