A Thread to Rehash GT HC Comparisons

[WreckinGT]

Here's a fact that cannot be argued:

The Previous HC Recruited us into a hole so deep that in his last 5 Seasons as HC we were 1-4 vs Duke, what made it worse is that Duke ain't UGA or Clemson talent-wise, and then to top that off and pour more salt in our wounds, Duke was kicking our teeth in with Academic Qualifiers from GA HSs

Gameday Coaching is only abt 10% of what makes a Team win Games

80% Recrootin'
10% Player Development, Practice & Position Specific Instruction
10% In-Game Decision Making

Almost 100% of P5 HCs will tell you something very similar to what I listed above, with maybe slight variances in the percentages of the last 2 Areas

The Previous HC deluded our Fanbase into thinking that Coaching & Strategy & Fancy Playcalling wins Games, and that was never the case, it was always Talent

After Chan was fired we should've hired a Recruiter-first kinda guy, because when you have to fire that Guy, at least you have a Program that's attractive for the "right reasons"

You never want your Program to be attractive for the sole reason that is it a Pwr5 Job and there are only 65 of those Jobs in the Country, that's what the Previous HC left us with, we were only attractive because we are 1 of 65 Pwr5 Jobs in the Country

Think about that for a minute, after the 11 years on the GTAA Payroll, what did the Previous HC leave behind that would make GT FB attractive to the next guy?

I mean, come on. The argument that coaching plays only a 10% role in wins and losses is nonsense. If the percentages that you came up with were true then UGA would never lose a game. Florida St certainly would have pounded us earlier in the season. We would have beaten Boston College and Syracuse. Miami would be a juggernaut. Tennessee would be a juggernaut. Indiana wouldn't be anywhere near the top 25. Etc. Etc. If you want to play that game though then how are we going to get any better with the recruiting we have seen so far? The 2020 class was ranked behind 4 teams we play regularly and 2 teams we play semi regularly. The 2021 class is ranked behind 6 teams we play regularly and 1 team we play semi regularly. If recruiting is all that matters, that gets us right back to being a 6-7 win team if things play out the way they should.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I think one thing at can do more is to recruit nationally. That way we cast a wider net that can allow us to find those smart student athletes who have elite talent. Recruiting focused on only the south east because this is where lots of talent is, is a mistake when it comes to Tech.

Well, I disagree. Outside of the southeast no high school football player even knows GT exists or would give us a serious look if he is that talented because other schools closer to home or more name brand would attract him. The expense of recruiting nation wide to yield a very few players isn’t worth it when we have the state of Georgia and Florida right here. No matter what GT fans think, Georgia Tech is not a national brand for football. Academic programs, absolutely yes. Football, heck no. High school kids of today were born after 9/11. All they know of Georgia Tech is we are in Atlanta, get whipped by our instate rival regularly, and we run the option.

 

[ncjacket79]

I mean, come on. The argument that coaching plays only a 10% role in wins and losses is nonsense. If the percentages that you came up with were true then UGA would never lose a game. Florida St certainly would have pounded us earlier in the season. We would have beaten Boston College and Syracuse. Miami would be a juggernaut. Tennessee would be a juggernaut. Indiana wouldn't be anywhere near the top 25. Etc. Etc. If you want to play that game though then how are we going to get any better with the recruiting we have seen so far? The 2020 class was ranked behind 4 teams we play regularly and 2 teams we play semi regularly. The 2021 class is ranked behind 6 teams we play regularly and 1 team we play semi regularly. If recruiting is all that matters, that gets us right back to being a 6-7 win team if things play out the way they should.

Actually just look at GA. They win 90% of the time just on talent. When coaching matters they lose. May be something to that talent bs coaching thing.

 

[WreckinGT]

Actually just look at GA. They win 90% of the time just on talent. When coaching matters they lose. May be something to that talent bs coaching thing.

Their recruiting classes have been ranked 1,1,1, and 3 the last four years. Easily the most talent in the country. If coaching only mattered 10% then they should never lose to anyone. It shouldn't be possible for anyone, except maybe Alabama or Ohio St to even come close.

 

[Pointer]

Well, I disagree. Outside of the southeast no high school football player even knows GT exists or would give us a serious look if he is that talented because other schools closer to home or more name brand would attract him. The expense of recruiting nation wide to yield a very few players isn’t worth it when we have the state of Georgia and Florida right here. No matter what GT fans think, Georgia Tech is not a national brand for football. Academic programs, absolutely yes. Football, heck no. High school kids of today were born after 9/11. All they know of Georgia Tech is we are in Atlanta, get whipped by our instate rival regularly, and we run the option.

I think if you go look at the 1990 team, part of the big success was that we had guys from all over on that team. Use the academics to your advantage if you can find intelligent elite talent.

But you're absolutely right, it is pricey to recruit nationally. I just think that would be the better investment if we want true elite recruiting.

 

[JacketOff]

Their recruiting classes have been ranked 1,1,1, and 3 the last four years. Easily the most talent in the country. If coaching only mattered 10% then they should never lose to anyone. It shouldn't be possible for anyone, except maybe Alabama or Ohio St to even come close.

Since 2017 Georgia is 40-9. That’s a .81 winning percentage, good for the 8th best winning percentage in the country, and the 6th best in P5 (+Notre Dame). Their losses are:

• @#10 Auburn
• #4 Alabama in the national championship
• @#13 LSU
• #1 Alabama in the SECCG
• #14 Texas in the Sugar Bowl
• South Carolina
• #1 LSU in the SECCG
• @#2 Alabama
• #8 Florida in Jacksonville

Only one of their losses is to a team not ranked in the top 15, 6 of their losses have been in the top 10, 4 have been in the top 4, only one of the losses was at home. 4 of the losses were in the postseason. Georgia doesn’t lose to “anyone”. South Carolina is the only exception to the rule. It’s been proven that Kirby is a pretty terrible gameday coach, and has no idea how to manage QBs. Yet, Georgia is one of the premier programs in the country. Why? Because of the talent they have. I’m not sure why that’s a difficult concept. If they were going 8-4 or 9-3 every year I might get it, but they aren’t. So I don’t really understand your point.

 

[WreckinGT]

Since 2017 Georgia is 40-9. That’s a .81 winning percentage, good for the 8th best winning percentage in the country, and the 6th best in P5 (+Notre Dame). Their losses are:

• @#10 Auburn
• #4 Alabama in the national championship
• @#13 LSU
• #1 Alabama in the SECCG
• #14 Texas in the Sugar Bowl
• South Carolina
• #1 LSU in the SECCG
• @#2 Alabama
• #8 Florida in Jacksonville

Only one of their losses is to a team not ranked in the top 15, 6 of their losses have been in the top 10, 4 have been in the top 4, only one of the losses was at home. 4 of the losses were in the postseason. Georgia doesn’t lose to “anyone”. South Carolina is the only exception to the rule. It’s been proven that Kirby is a pretty terrible gameday coach, and has no idea how to manage QBs. Yet, Georgia is one of the premier programs in the country. Why? Because of the talent they have. I’m not sure why that’s a difficult concept. If they were going 8-4 or 9-3 every year I might get it, but they aren’t. So I don’t really understand your point.

The point you are missing is that the Florida team that beat them like a drum last weekend has vastly less talent than they have, if you believe recruiting rankings. Even the Alabama team that beat them easily earlier in the year has less talent on paper. Rankings aren’t some inherent proof of talent. Coastal Carolina isn’t more talented than Oklahoma right now. Pretty much every team that UGA has lost to recently has less talent than they have Irregardless of their ranking. Sometimes way less talent. Some teams have quality coaching to go with their talent level and they win more because of it. Quality coaching is worth far more than the nonsense 10% number that was cited earlier. If it were only 10% UGA would likely never lose a game.

 

[orientalnc]

It was a Harvard study. I think this is it:

https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Publication%20Files/13-067_86a0b712-f29e-423f-b614-0165b770dd65.pdf

I finally found time to read that paper. You should read it, too. The paper makes the case that football success has an upward effect on the number of applications and applicants with lower SAT scores are more likely to be influenced by athletic success. The opposite is true of applicants with high SAT scores.

 

[Vespidae]

I finally found time to read that paper. You should read it, too. The paper makes the case that football success has an upward effect on the number of applications and applicants with lower SAT scores are more likely to be influenced by athletic success. The opposite is true of applicants with high SAT scores.

As I recall, Alabama is flooded with National Merit scholars. The percentage has changed, but sheer volume is up.

Tech does not have this problem.

 

[orientalnc]

As I recall, Alabama is flooded with National Merit scholars. The percentage has changed, but sheer volume is up.

Tech does not have this problem.

I agree about Tech. I am a UAB alum and still have a ton of friends in Alabama. You are right, Bama has a bunch of NM finalists.

 

[TheJuiceIsLoose]

The point you are missing is that the Florida team that beat them like a drum last weekend has vastly less talent than they have, if you believe recruiting rankings. Even the Alabama team that beat them easily earlier in the year has less talent on paper. Rankings aren’t some inherent proof of talent. Coastal Carolina isn’t more talented than Oklahoma right now. Pretty much every team that UGA has lost to recently has less talent than they have Irregardless of their ranking. Sometimes way less talent. Some teams have quality coaching to go with their talent level and they win more because of it. Quality coaching is worth far more than the nonsense 10% number that was cited earlier. If it were only 10% GA would likely never lose a game.

If quality "coaching" were worth so much as you claim it does:

And the alleged "quality coach" has that Team from M-F to practice them, develop them, and come up with strategy for GameDays, then how does MTSU happen, then how does 2015 happen?

The Coaching is THE ONLY VARIABLE that never changes

Coaches just don't get dumber over time with more experience, what does happen is they lose TALENTED PLAYERS due to injury or other reasons

The only variable that constantly changes is THE PLAYERS, injuries change who Plays, and Graduation & leaving to pursue the NFL changes who Plays

Was there any difference in Boss Ross in his first 2 years vs. in his MNC year; sure there was, THE PLAYERS got better, more experienced, and they were able to execute Ross's "10% contribution" to the Max and that's what led to that MNC Season

Les Miles won a MNC at LSU and was nipping at Saban's heels, if "coaching" were really worth more than 10% like you claim, shouldn't he be able to make Kansas a consistent 8-4 Team in a much easier Big12, despite the lesser Talent on the Team?

I trust Urban Meyer when he said "Recrootin' is 80% responsible for a Coach's Success" (wins & losses), I'll let you fill in the Blanks ---- you tell me how much is leftover for Player Development, and how much is leftover for Game Day "Coaching"?

 

[Sheboygan]

Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets Coaches | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets Coaches and more about College Football at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

Looking back at (relatively ) successful modern era , winning overall record,Tech coaches , what first comes to mind with each one;
Dodd- innovative, cerebral coaching methods for his day.
Johnson - unusual offense
O'Leary- innovative assistant coaches- above our average recruiter
Gailey- above our average recruiter, just not good enough
Rodgers- wishbone ( see Johnson above )
Ross- built depth over 3 years for a short lived great run

My point is, in years past we have NEVER been able to recruit our way to top 15 or so consistently to be in the national conversation
more than a year or two, then we fade into obscurity. It seems as though Collins wants to change that history. I am hoping he can. Recruiting consistently well over the years will improve our staying power in the conversation, and success breeds success- IF, and it's a HUGE if, the coaching is top 15 also.
However, my current observation is that Collins may need what Beau Bock( remember him ?) use to call " Grandma talent ". That is so much talent - to overcome the coaching-
that even your grandma can be successful. I am currently disappointed by the lack of coaching up that I see, as well as game management issues. IMO, if those problems don't begin to significantly resolve by this time next year, we just may start to seriously question this experiment.

 

[4shotB]

The point you are missing is that the Florida team that beat them like a drum last weekend has vastly less talent than they have, if you believe recruiting rankings.

Georgia's problem this year is that they have a roster full of 4 and 5 stars but no QB. The college game is evolving into the pro game in that you cannot compete for championships without a top notch QB. Even Fromm who is disparaged by Uga fans ( a bit unfairly imo) got them to within a whisker of a NC and was good enough to make a roster somewhere in the league.

I have said this before but looking at average recruiting rankings doesn't tell the full picture. Say CGC recruits 24 players in this cycle, all 4 and 5 stars. All have offers from the top 5 or 6 "glamour schools". Say 8 are WR's, 8 are RB's and 8 are CB's. We would look good in the national recruit rankings.Probably top 10. But in 2 years we would be right where we are now record wise.

 

[4shotB]

Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets Coaches | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets Coaches and more about College Football at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

My point is, in years past we have NEVER been able to recruit our way to top 15 or so consistently to be in the national conversation
more than a year or two, then we fade into obscurity. It seems as though Collins wants to change that history. I am hoping he can. Recruiting consistently well over the years will improve our staying power in the conversation, and success breeds success- IF, and it's a HUGE if, the coaching is top 15 also.

In a way, I think the customers demanded this approach. Since the departure of CGO'L, the fan base has done nothing but complain mostly about the coaching, even though Chan and Paul had very similar overall winning results (roughly .580 %) at the end of the day. Whether he works out or not remains to be seen or whether we agree with it or not but I think the GTAA had to try a different approach if only for marketing reasons.

 

[7979]

Georgia's problem this year is that they have a roster full of 4 and 5 stars but no QB. The college game is evolving into the pro game in that you cannot compete for championships without a top notch QB. Even Fromm who is disparaged by Uga fans ( a bit unfairly imo) got them to within a whisker of a NC and was good enough to make a roster somewhere in the league.

I have said this before but looking at average recruiting rankings doesn't tell the full picture. Say CGC recruits 24 players in this cycle, all 4 and 5 stars. All have offers from the top 5 or 6 "glamour schools". Say 8 are WR's, 8 are RB's and 8 are CB's. We would look good in the national recruit rankings.Probably top 10. But in 2 years we would be right where we are now record wise.

There are many pieces required to be a successful FB team but, without an elite QB, you cannot compete for championships. Period. The End.

 

[Sheboygan]

In a way, I think the customers demanded this approach. Since the departure of CGO'L, the fan base has done nothing but complain mostly about the coaching, even though Chan and Paul had very similar overall winning results (roughly .580 %) at the end of the day. Whether he works out or not remains to be seen or whether we agree with it or not but I think the GTAA had to try a different approach if only for marketing reasons.

Agree 100%.

 

[Sheboygan]

There are many pieces required to be a successful FB team but, without an elite QB, you cannot compete for championships. Period. The End.

I agree to a point. I think the OL and DL are almost as important as the QB.

 

[Jacket20]

The point you are missing is that the Florida team that beat them like a drum last weekend has vastly less talent than they have, if you believe recruiting rankings. Even the Alabama team that beat them easily earlier in the year has less talent on paper. Rankings aren’t some inherent proof of talent. Coastal Carolina isn’t more talented than Oklahoma right now. Pretty much every team that UGA has lost to recently has less talent than they have Irregardless of their ranking. Sometimes way less talent. Some teams have quality coaching to go with their talent level and they win more because of it. Quality coaching is worth far more than the nonsense 10% number that was cited earlier. If it were only 10% UGA would likely never lose a game.

Florida had more talent for the most important position on the field - Quarterback

 

[Coloradojacket]

Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets Coaches | College Football at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets Coaches and more about College Football at Sports-Reference.com

www.sports-reference.com

Looking back at (relatively ) successful modern era , winning overall record,Tech coaches , what first comes to mind with each one;
Dodd- innovative, cerebral coaching methods for his day.
Johnson - unusual offense
O'Leary- innovative assistant coaches- above our average recruiter
Gailey- above our average recruiter, just not good enough
Rodgers- wishbone ( see Johnson above )
Ross- built depth over 3 years for a short lived great run

My point is, in years past we have NEVER been able to recruit our way to top 15 or so consistently to be in the national conversation
more than a year or two, then we fade into obscurity. It seems as though Collins wants to change that history. I am hoping he can. Recruiting consistently well over the years will improve our staying power in the conversation, and success breeds success- IF, and it's a HUGE if, the coaching is top 15 also.
However, my current observation is that Collins may need what Beau Bock( remember him ?) use to call " Grandma talent ". That is so much talent - to overcome the coaching-
that even your grandma can be successful. I am currently disappointed by the lack of coaching up that I see, as well as game management issues. IMO, if those problems don't begin to significantly resolve by this time next year, we just may start to seriously question this experiment.

Just for an FYI. Pepper ran the bone for 3 years. At that time there were 3 offenses, wishbone veer power I. We ran the bone along with Oklahoma Alabama Auburn etc.

 

[JacketOff]

I agree to a point. I think the OL and DL are almost as important as the QB.

Elite play in the trenches will win a lot of games, but it won’t win championships. Championships in today’s era of college football are almost always determined by which QB plays the best. Since Georgia is a topic of conversation, just look at them for evidence. Quite possibly the best combination of OL and DL over the past 4 years yet they only have 1 conference championship to show for it because of their lack of QB play. FWIW, their lone championship occurred in the year they had the best QB play. They also took a lead into the second half of the natty based on QB play, but lost their lead once Tua came in. Case and point, QB is the most important position on the field.