A Thread to Rehash GT HC Comparisons

[WreckinGT]

When we have a full roster of better players we will win. Unfortunately, our talent level lately was getting mauled by Duke. We’ll get there.

Well, here lies the crux of the problem. Not everyone is convinced that the first sentence is true. We all see and expect more improved recruiting. Whether that will result in a talent level high enough for this particular coaching staff to perform better than previous regimes is a huge unknown. For the 2021 recruiting class so far we are behind 6 other programs that we play annually. Some of them we are substantially behind. We will either need to improve that significantly or our gameday coaching is going to need to be outstanding, which so far it hasn't been.

 

[zzzboy25]

Since everyone likes talking about the Bowl team in 2018.
In 2019 Tech lost :
The Whole Starting DL from 2018
Starting Quarterback
Starting Running Back
Starting WR
Starting LB
Starting Safety
The best returning DL player passed away before the season.
The Best OL on the team transferred.
In 2018 Tech did not beat a single team over .500 in Conference play. We weren’t great that year and lost almost all the production. Tried of people acting like Collins was sitting on a bowl team.

You're right, but as a armchair quarterback, sometimes we don't look at the wins and loses as a gauged of good coaching: I.E Jimmy Johnson first year Dallas. But you look at with the eye test, Does the coach make adjustment at half, or just he use mismatches with personally, also is the team more discipline. You can also add in moments of greatness. This can be done with mediocre players, but still get beat as a team. So I'm not going in on the players during a coaches first few years..But I don't see those adjusts after a half and so on..

 

[ncjacket79]

Well, here lies the crux of the problem. Not everyone is convinced that the first sentence is true. We all see and expect more improved recruiting. Whether that will result in a talent level high enough for this particular coaching staff to perform better than previous regimes is a huge unknown. For the 2021 recruiting class so far we are behind 6 other programs that we play annually. Some of them we are substantially behind. We will either need to improve that significantly or our gameday coaching is going to need to be outstanding, which so far it hasn't been.

Better than behind 10. It takes time and we need to show some patience. Staff changes may also be needed but recruiting is the lifeblood of college football and we need to keep improving there.

 

[FlatsLander]

1- 4 during the previous HC's last 5 years vs Duke indicates that we weren't getting anywhere close to 2014 levels anytime soon, a year where we lost to a terrible UNC Team and needed a blown call to beat Ga Southern in their 1st year with 85 schollies

You think losing to Duke, UNC, and needing a cheating Ref to beat Ga Southern is great times on the Flats, while the #4 HS FB talent is within a 90 minute drive of GT's Campus

Back in 1988 (?) the Top2 HS QBs in this State were Charlie Ward & Shawn Jones, we got 1 of them and won a MNC, the other guy won a Heisman and might have won an MNC himself at F$U

Fast Fwd to the Previous HC's Tenure, the Top2 QBs in this State were Trevor Lawrence & Justin Fields, did the previous HC have any shot at all to sign one?

What about D Watson?

Part of the Problem is that being considered an "Offensive Genuis" to 65 yr old Alums means less than nothing, IMO you can't be called an Offensive Genius if Elite HS FB Talent in your home State wants nothing to do with your "system"

This makes you a "one trick pony" rather than an Offensive Genuis, once we admit that the previous HC was a 1 trick pony that was a terrible recruiter & a terrible ambassador to the HS FB Coaches in this State we can move forward, but a segment among us refuses to admit what the previous guy really was

It's time to move on and really get behind the new guy, 80 of the Top100 HS FB Players in this State can get into GT as Recruited FB Players and can Graduate if they want to

It's time to move into the Ranks of big time CFB with emphasis on Recrootin' (SEC spelling), Roster Mgmt, and Processing guys that can't hack it, time for GT FB to move fwd with both hands instead of 1 hand tied behind our backs

The Fanbase has to want to play "The Game" the way Championship Programs Play The Game!

Duke had 10 wins in 2013, and 9 in 2014, they weren't chumps. Plus JT had probably the worst game of his career that day. 2014 UNC finished 3rd behind us and Duke, and won by having the ball last in a shootout. The fumble recovery against GaSo was clearly a sideways lateral and is in no way a cheating ref tipping the game for us. I really can't believe you're trying to undermine one of the only seasons we've had to hang our hat on for the last 10 years.

 

[SteamWhistle]

You're right, but as a armchair quarterback, sometimes we don't look at the wins and loses as a gauged of good coaching: I.E Jimmy Johnson first year Dallas. But you look at with the eye test, Does the coach make adjustment at half, or just he use mismatches with personally, also is the team more discipline. You can also add in moments of greatness. This can be done with mediocre players, but still get beat as a team. So I'm not going in on the players during a coaches first few years..But I don't see those adjusts after a half and so on..

They are trying. It’s just hard. They are playing with house money in the Corona Year. I get pissed too then I remind myself where we are. Next year is the make it or break it year for Collins.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

Next year is the make it or break it year for Collins.

I agree. If it resembles the first two, it will be hard to defend.

 

[takethepoints]

Considering what happened in 2015 when we were plagued with similar injury issues, I doubt last year would have been much better under CPJ.

2015 was much worse then last year. Here you go:

https://www.ajc.com/blog/georgia-tech/tabulating-georgia-tech-injury-toll/p8Lkke9qJIXh7xw39dEwxM/

But last year was certainly no picnic on the OL. The spread option needed consistency there, but shotgun spread teams trying to pass more need it even more. And Graham being hurt at the start of the season was not a help either. The kicker with Paul coming back is that a) we wouldn't have lost some of the players we did (Malloy, in particular) and more of the good ones would be on the field (Malloy and Smith as starting ABs, I think) and b) losing Graham wouldn't have been such a problem since Tobias would have started anyway. I still say 6 or 7 at least.

Oth, this season would have been difficult no matter who was coaching. As difficult. with equally bad losses? Maybe so, maybe not. We'll never know.

 

[takethepoints]

The Fanbase has to want to play "The Game" the way Championship Programs Play The Game!

Unfortunately for you and "The Fanbase", Tech's administration, faculty, student body and, most important of all, the General Assembly don't share these goals. There is simply no way that we can do the kinds of things you are talking about without damaging Tech's academic reputation. That is not - I repeat, not - going to happen. Tech is too big a resource for the state to do so. And that, in a nutshell, is Tech's dilemma; it's like O'Leary used to say, "Tech wants to be Alabama on the weekend and Harvard for the rest of the week." Harvard will always win out in this contest. Collins knows that and says he'll adjust to it. He had better; the whole idea of a successful football program is that the program adjusts to the school, not the other way around. In a way, Nick Saban is the luckiest coach in America. At Alabama anything less then competing for a national championship is anathema. But that's not the way it has ever worked at Tech.

You need to get used to this. That and not poor-mouthing the best Tech season since 1990 would be a great reset for the rest of your postings here.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Well, here lies the crux of the problem. Not everyone is convinced that the first sentence is true. We all see and expect more improved recruiting. Whether that will result in a talent level high enough for this particular coaching staff to perform better than previous regimes is a huge unknown. For the 2021 recruiting class so far we are behind 6 other programs that we play annually. Some of them we are substantially behind. We will either need to improve that significantly or our gameday coaching is going to need to be outstanding, which so far it hasn't been.

It takes time to build recruiting relationships. I’m still amazed at what he pulled off with last years class. For GT football, it was like when we signed Kenny Anderson in hoops. Kenny was our best hoop signee at that time arguably of all time. Collins signing that class last year after 1 year on the job was phenomenal. GT fans should be grateful now, but instead they whine about the scoreboard. I hope when we start winning with those players that they’ll recognize how much work Collins puts in. This years class is far from complete and the rankings of individual players stopped on a dime with Covid so how anyone can say we are 6 is laughable. And even if we don’t get another Kenny in 2021, I’ll take a Travis Best. But what Collins is doing on the recruiting front will continue to bare fruit in future classes. But right now today we have a mix mash of players and a freshman QB.

 

[takethepoints]

Didn't mean this. Look above.

 

[Vespidae]

Well, here lies the crux of the problem. Not everyone is convinced that the first sentence is true. We all see and expect more improved recruiting. Whether that will result in a talent level high enough for this particular coaching staff to perform better than previous regimes is a huge unknown. For the 2021 recruiting class so far we are behind 6 other programs that we play annually. Some of them we are substantially behind. We will either need to improve that significantly or our gameday coaching is going to need to be outstanding, which so far it hasn't been.

Many of the top programs have a talent composite of 800+. GT is currently around 678. We have big gap to close ... if we can even do that. This is why game day coaching is so important.

Here's an example. I recall a few years ago playing Vanderbilt at BDS. The opening play was a TD pass by GT beating their defender. CPJ was asked about it in the presser. "We didn't plan that play. I was on the field during warmups and saw how the defense was practicing and noticed how they were rolling their ankles at the sidelines. I changed the play on the fly thinking, if we can catch these suckers doing that move, we'll blow right by them." We did. Six points.

Geoff is trying to be Dabo. He needs to be more like Dodd.

 

[ncjacket79]

Unfortunately for you and "The Fanbase", Tech's administration, faculty, student body and, most important of all, the General Assembly don't share these goals. There is simply no way that we can do the kinds of things you are talking about without damaging Tech's academic reputation. That is not - I repeat, not - going to happen. Tech is too big a resource for the state to do so. And that, in a nutshell, is Tech's dilemma; it's like O'Leary used to say, "Tech wants to be Alabama on the weekend and Harvard for the rest of the week." Harvard will always win out in this contest. Collins knows that and says he'll adjust to it. He had better; the whole idea of a successful football program is that the program adjusts to the school, not the other way around. In a way, Nick Saban is the luckiest coach in America. At Alabama anything less then competing for a national championship is anathema. But that's not the way it has ever worked at Tech.

You need to get used to this. That and not poor-mouthing the best Tech season since 1990 would be a great reset for the rest of your postings here.

None of the things we would need to do would have an impact on our academic recommendation. You think UNC has suffered even with the lengths they went?

 

[Vespidae]

None of the things we would need to do would have an impact on our academic recommendation. You think UNC has suffered even with the lengths they went?

I get what you and NCjacket are saying, but ... Tech today is not Tech of 1980. Research delivers $1B a year in revenue ... and that’s the REAL change. Tech’s President isn’t compensates on football. He is compensated on research. It’s a HUGE shift in priorities that even Geoff may not understand.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

Many of the top programs have a talent composite of 800+. GT is currently around 678. We have big gap to close ... if we can even do that. This is why game day coaching is so important.

Here's an example. I recall a few years ago playing Vanderbilt at BDS. The opening play was a TD pass by GT beating their defender. CPJ was asked about it in the presser. "We didn't plan that play. I was on the field during warmups and saw how the defense was practicing and noticed how they were rolling their ankles at the sidelines. I changed the play on the fly thinking, if we can catch these suckers doing that move, we'll blow right by them." We did. Six points.

Geoff is trying to be Dabo. He needs to be more like Dodd.

I don’t think anyone is arguing the opposite. Game day coaching is very important but it’s not the whole ball of wax. I loved Johnson and his system. But there is more to being a college coach than calling plays. Nobody wishes Johnson would have fought harder for his system in the press than me. But he didn’t and by year 3-4 the GT brand was toast to high school players and coaches which shrunk our player pool and led to his walking away. Collins head coaching resume is still yet to be written. But as a GT fan, I’m looking forward to seeing 4 star players on the field over the rest of his tenure. After watching football for the past 40 years it’s not a stretch to say that the team with the most talented players will win. And having a great system and talented players win titles, ala Spurrier and Meyer. Johnson had a good system but he had a huge blind spot regarding that system. Spurrier and Meyer created systems that players fought to play in. Collins is at least trying.

 

[Vespidae]

I don’t think anyone is arguing the opposite. Game day coaching is very important but it’s not the whole ball of wax. I loved Johnson and his system. But there is more to being a college coach than calling plays. Nobody wishes Johnson would have fought harder for his system in the press than me. But he didn’t and by year 3-4 the GT brand was toast to high school players and coaches which shrunk our player pool and led to his walking away. Collins head coaching resume is still yet to be written. But as a GT fan, I’m looking forward to seeing 4 star players on the field over the rest of his tenure. After watching football for the past 40 years it’s not a stretch to say that the team with the most talented players will win. And having a great system and talented players win titles, ala Spurrier and Meyer. Johnson had a good system but he had a huge blind spot regarding that system. Spurrier and Meyer created systems that players fought to play in. Collins is at least trying.

Did I say that?

 

[ncjacket79]

I get what you and NCjacket are saying, but ... Tech today is not Tech of 1980. Research delivers $1B a year in revenue ... and that’s the REAL change. Tech’s President isn’t compensates on football. He is compensated on research. It’s a HUGE shift in priorities that even Geoff may not understand.

What I am asking is why we can’t have both? Great basketball doesn’t hurt Duke rake in research $$.

 

[Vespidae]

What I am asking is why we can’t have both? Great basketball doesn’t hurt Duke rake in research $$.

Duke is a private school.

 

[ncjacket79]

Duke is a private school.

What difference does that make? The point,I thought, was if we do too much to support athletics it hurts our academic reputation. If you don’t like that example how about UNC? Their rep hasn’t suffered and it’s hard to imagine going more overboard.

 

[Vespidae]

What difference does that make? The point,I thought, was if we do too much to support athletics it hurts our academic reputation. If you don’t like that example how about UNC? Their rep hasn’t suffered and it’s hard to imagine going more overboard.

Duke isn’t subject to oversight by a Board of Regents. That’s why.

 

[Pointer]

Duke is a private school.

Basketball is also a different animal. Between one and done (essentially making the academic side pointless for nba level talent) and the fact that you really only need 10-11 scholarship athletes, it makes it much easier to field elite teams.