2024 offseason

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,586
As a comparison.

Prior to coming to GT Dowuona averaged 4.1/4.1 in 24.5 mpg as a sophomore for an NCSU team that went 4-16 in conference. The next year he averaged 1.7/1.4 in 10.9 mpg for an improved NCSU team (going 12-8 in conference). Everything about his time at NCSU pointed to him not being a real contributor for a good ACC level team. This was pointed out before the season last year and several people talked themselves into believing that all it was going to take was a change in scenery to see a big jump. It didn't happen. He scored 4 points and grabbed 12 boards against ACC competition for us last year.

Mutombo at Gtown played 11.8 mpg as a freshman putting up 5.1/3 for a winless in conference Gtown team. He then played 5.4 and 3.8 mpg respectively as a sophomore and junior for GTown teams that won 2 games in conference each year and he played in only 12 and 15 games respectively. I would argue that the comparison favors Dowuona in terms of what was shown prior to arriving here, and Dowuona was far from being a contributor. Everything again points to him not being close to being a contributor against ACC level competition.

However, I would be surprised if Onwuchekwa plays less than double digit minutes come ACC time barring injury. And it's less about him and more about the make up of the team.

The problem we have is our back court right now looks like it will probably be mostly a mixture of George, McCollum, Terry and Mustaf. Of those that have been in college, George last year, by Drtg, was the worst rotation player we had defensively, as well as the worst overall rebounder we had. Two years ago, again by DRtg, Terry was the worst rotation player we had defensively, and was near the bottom rebounding (5.4 TRB% and our worst rotation player was coleman at 5.3). Last year for OU McCollum was the second to worst rotation player d as well as the second worst rebounder. So whenever we have two of those 3 on the court, which looks likely to be our starting and possibly first guard off the bench, that will put increased pressure on the other 3 players to cover in those areas. Mustaf is the wild card because physically he is by far the most likely to be a good rebounder/defender for the position, and I think any best case scenario for us features him at least as the first guard off the bench if not playing his way into the start rotation (whether it's replacing one of the guards or Reeves)

At the 3 spot we have Reeves who has the athletic tools to be a better defender and rebounder than he was, but he was 10th last year for both DRtg and TRB%. He could perhaps take a big jump in that area similar to how Kelly improved his rebounding significantly, but I'm not sure we can really predict it based on anything.

So in general when looking at our front court, no matter how you view positions vs positionless, we will likely need to address both rebounding and defense as our back court likely won't be a positive for rebounding and seems unlikely to be particularly good about preventing drives barring big jumps or surprised from freshmen. Obrien seems like he could be the perfect fit. Shot 38% from three last year so can stretch the court, and his rebounding and defensive numbers from his junior year are very exciting. The concern I would have is that his junior year, while his defense and rebounding was great, his 3 point shot was only 29%. You have to wonder if the wear and tear of the former affected the latter. And last year his 3 point shot was much better, but his defense and rebounding numbers fell as the team overall improved meaning you again have to wonder if he can play at his junior level for a team that is NCAAT quality. The bigger concern to me is he only played 23.6 mpg last year and 22.7 mpg as a junior. Even if he is his junior year, we are still looking at ~25 mpg in the front court to cover. The other options are Powell who is taking a big leap forward, Souare who is coming off a non injury, as far as I know, redshirt year, and Onwuchekwa. Of those Onwuchekwa seems the only one who really provides the option of sliding Baye to the 4 spot which would not only help rebounding at that spot, but importantly take pressure off of him defensively to contest shots or defend potentially bigger opponents which should help with foul issues when they come up, which is a bigger risk when going smaller.

I would guess it would be something like a front court rotation of Baye -30 mpg, O'Brien -25 mpg, Doryan - 15 mpg, and Powell 10 mpg with Souare more likely to eat into Powell's minutes if he surprises. I could also see Obrien sliding to the 3 when Reeves leaves if Mustaff or Sutton don't transition to college that well.
 

Jack

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
274
I’m not gonna
As a comparison.

Prior to coming to GT Dowuona averaged 4.1/4.1 in 24.5 mpg as a sophomore for an NCSU team that went 4-16 in conference. The next year he averaged 1.7/1.4 in 10.9 mpg for an improved NCSU team (going 12-8 in conference). Everything about his time at NCSU pointed to him not being a real contributor for a good ACC level team. This was pointed out before the season last year and several people talked themselves into believing that all it was going to take was a change in scenery to see a big jump. It didn't happen. He scored 4 points and grabbed 12 boards against ACC competition for us last year.

Mutombo at Gtown played 11.8 mpg as a freshman putting up 5.1/3 for a winless in conference Gtown team. He then played 5.4 and 3.8 mpg respectively as a sophomore and junior for GTown teams that won 2 games in conference each year and he played in only 12 and 15 games respectively. I would argue that the comparison favors Dowuona in terms of what was shown prior to arriving here, and Dowuona was far from being a contributor. Everything again points to him not being close to being a contributor against ACC level competition.

However, I would be surprised if Onwuchekwa plays less than double digit minutes come ACC time barring injury. And it's less about him and more about the make up of the team.

The problem we have is our back court right now looks like it will probably be mostly a mixture of George, McCollum, Terry and Mustaf. Of those that have been in college, George last year, by Drtg, was the worst rotation player we had defensively, as well as the worst overall rebounder we had. Two years ago, again by DRtg, Terry was the worst rotation player we had defensively, and was near the bottom rebounding (5.4 TRB% and our worst rotation player was coleman at 5.3). Last year for OU McCollum was the second to worst rotation player d as well as the second worst rebounder. So whenever we have two of those 3 on the court, which looks likely to be our starting and possibly first guard off the bench, that will put increased pressure on the other 3 players to cover in those areas. Mustaf is the wild card because physically he is by far the most likely to be a good rebounder/defender for the position, and I think any best case scenario for us features him at least as the first guard off the bench if not playing his way into the start rotation (whether it's replacing one of the guards or Reeves)

At the 3 spot we have Reeves who has the athletic tools to be a better defender and rebounder than he was, but he was 10th last year for both DRtg and TRB%. He could perhaps take a big jump in that area similar to how Kelly improved his rebounding significantly, but I'm not sure we can really predict it based on anything.

So in general when looking at our front court, no matter how you view positions vs positionless, we will likely need to address both rebounding and defense as our back court likely won't be a positive for rebounding and seems unlikely to be particularly good about preventing drives barring big jumps or surprised from freshmen. Obrien seems like he could be the perfect fit. Shot 38% from three last year so can stretch the court, and his rebounding and defensive numbers from his junior year are very exciting. The concern I would have is that his junior year, while his defense and rebounding was great, his 3 point shot was only 29%. You have to wonder if the wear and tear of the former affected the latter. And last year his 3 point shot was much better, but his defense and rebounding numbers fell as the team overall improved meaning you again have to wonder if he can play at his junior level for a team that is NCAAT quality. The bigger concern to me is he only played 23.6 mpg last year and 22.7 mpg as a junior. Even if he is his junior year, we are still looking at ~25 mpg in the front court to cover. The other options are Powell who is taking a big leap forward, Souare who is coming off a non injury, as far as I know, redshirt year, and Onwuchekwa. Of those Onwuchekwa seems the only one who really provides the option of sliding Baye to the 4 spot which would not only help rebounding at that spot, but importantly take pressure off of him defensively to contest shots or defend potentially bigger opponents which should help with foul issues when they come up, which is a bigger risk when going smaller.

I would guess it would be something like a front court rotation of Baye -30 mpg, O'Brien -25 mpg, Doryan - 15 mpg, and Powell 10 mpg with Souare more likely to eat into Powell's minutes if he surprises. I could also see Obrien sliding to the 3 when Reeves leaves if Mustaff or Sutton don't transition to college that well.
I am hoping that Ryan’s game will perk up. This is his last year and he has come home. Does he have an extra year because of Covid?
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
11,168
I’m hoping we play teams that allow us to matchup with this lineup:

George, Baye, Reeves, O’Brian, Onwuchekwa.

This assumes some things, obviously, but I think this lineup would be strong, acknowledging that Terry, McCollum, Mustaf, and Dowuona might also start in a couple of positions in this same matchup scenario.
 

TampaBuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,241
LOL! I am confident he will not be a major contributor unless someone else (Baye or O'Brien) gets injured or misses significant time. I do not consider excess playing time in early season games to be relevant to that assertion. Having said that, I am willing to remove games he did not play from the denominator where his health is in question. I would also be willing to add meaningful non conference games against UGA, Cincinnati, Oklahoma and Northwestern if you so wish. If you are good with the bet, so am I.
Since the terms of the bet are set...I assume that KG01 (with his perfect record of predictions) will adjudicate this bet?
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
11,168
Since the terms of the bet are set...I assume that KG01 (with his perfect record of predictions) will adjudicate this bet?

Kg01 be like…..

Football Booking GIF by ElevenSportsBE

And…..

Judge Joe Brown GIF


And furthermore…
Ice Hockey GIF by NHL
 

MtnWasp

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,059
As a comparison.

Of those that have been in college, George last year, by Drtg, was the worst rotation player we had defensively, as well as the worst overall rebounder we had. Two years ago, again by DRtg, Terry was the worst rotation player we had defensively, and was near the bottom rebounding (5.4 TRB% and our worst rotation player was coleman at 5.3).
For those who would like an explanation of "Drtg," you can find the formula here

Personally, the stat requires a lot of sweat to produce an assessment that would take just a few minutes of watching a game to see if a player is a good defender or not. The value of he stat is further obscured by the team nature of the game. For instance, how does the presence of an excellent post defender effect that defensive stats of a guard who might change how he defends if he is backed by a fine weak side defender? How are the stats of a post defender effected if he plays with guards who are committed to defending the three at the expense of allowing dribble penetration?

Call me a "Drtg" skeptic.

Last year's team defensive efficiency was as bad as the team's offensive efficiency (which was bad) so if we are going to make predictions based on last year's stats, we are looking at a TALL mountain to climb this year.

I prefer to give the players and coach a clean slate this season. That doesn't help in terms of predictions, but forecasting ain't my big thang.
 

YlJacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,272
As a comparison.

Prior to coming to GT Dowuona averaged 4.1/4.1 in 24.5 mpg as a sophomore for an NCSU team that went 4-16 in conference. The next year he averaged 1.7/1.4 in 10.9 mpg for an improved NCSU team (going 12-8 in conference). Everything about his time at NCSU pointed to him not being a real contributor for a good ACC level team. This was pointed out before the season last year and several people talked themselves into believing that all it was going to take was a change in scenery to see a big jump. It didn't happen. He scored 4 points and grabbed 12 boards against ACC competition for us last year.

Mutombo at Gtown played 11.8 mpg as a freshman putting up 5.1/3 for a winless in conference Gtown team. He then played 5.4 and 3.8 mpg respectively as a sophomore and junior for GTown teams that won 2 games in conference each year and he played in only 12 and 15 games respectively. I would argue that the comparison favors Dowuona in terms of what was shown prior to arriving here, and Dowuona was far from being a contributor. Everything again points to him not being close to being a contributor against ACC level competition.

However, I would be surprised if Onwuchekwa plays less than double digit minutes come ACC time barring injury. And it's less about him and more about the make up of the team.

The problem we have is our back court right now looks like it will probably be mostly a mixture of George, McCollum, Terry and Mustaf. Of those that have been in college, George last year, by Drtg, was the worst rotation player we had defensively, as well as the worst overall rebounder we had. Two years ago, again by DRtg, Terry was the worst rotation player we had defensively, and was near the bottom rebounding (5.4 TRB% and our worst rotation player was coleman at 5.3). Last year for OU McCollum was the second to worst rotation player d as well as the second worst rebounder. So whenever we have two of those 3 on the court, which looks likely to be our starting and possibly first guard off the bench, that will put increased pressure on the other 3 players to cover in those areas. Mustaf is the wild card because physically he is by far the most likely to be a good rebounder/defender for the position, and I think any best case scenario for us features him at least as the first guard off the bench if not playing his way into the start rotation (whether it's replacing one of the guards or Reeves)

At the 3 spot we have Reeves who has the athletic tools to be a better defender and rebounder than he was, but he was 10th last year for both DRtg and TRB%. He could perhaps take a big jump in that area similar to how Kelly improved his rebounding significantly, but I'm not sure we can really predict it based on anything.

So in general when looking at our front court, no matter how you view positions vs positionless, we will likely need to address both rebounding and defense as our back court likely won't be a positive for rebounding and seems unlikely to be particularly good about preventing drives barring big jumps or surprised from freshmen. Obrien seems like he could be the perfect fit. Shot 38% from three last year so can stretch the court, and his rebounding and defensive numbers from his junior year are very exciting. The concern I would have is that his junior year, while his defense and rebounding was great, his 3 point shot was only 29%. You have to wonder if the wear and tear of the former affected the latter. And last year his 3 point shot was much better, but his defense and rebounding numbers fell as the team overall improved meaning you again have to wonder if he can play at his junior level for a team that is NCAAT quality. The bigger concern to me is he only played 23.6 mpg last year and 22.7 mpg as a junior. Even if he is his junior year, we are still looking at ~25 mpg in the front court to cover. The other options are Powell who is taking a big leap forward, Souare who is coming off a non injury, as far as I know, redshirt year, and Onwuchekwa. Of those Onwuchekwa seems the only one who really provides the option of sliding Baye to the 4 spot which would not only help rebounding at that spot, but importantly take pressure off of him defensively to contest shots or defend potentially bigger opponents which should help with foul issues when they come up, which is a bigger risk when going smaller.

I would guess it would be something like a front court rotation of Baye -30 mpg, O'Brien -25 mpg, Doryan - 15 mpg, and Powell 10 mpg with Souare more likely to eat into Powell's minutes if he surprises. I could also see Obrien sliding to the 3 when Reeves leaves if Mustaff or Sutton don't transition to college that well.
Great analysis. I have been wondering about defense with George and McCollum as our expected starting backcourt but didn't have the stats you provided to show the defensive issue. I thought Terry would be better defensively but not arguing against the numbers. These numbers both support Mustaf getting early playing time and CDS focus on defense since last year. I don't care who we have at the 5 if we can't guard the perimeter. And team rebounding stats depend a lot more on the 1/2/3 spot than most give credit for - as you are saying.

Specific to DO, I pretty much agree that the structure of the team says he is going to be given every chance to earn 10 + min per game. Like you I think we start with Ndongo and Obrien at the 5/4 with a desire to allow Ndongo to get minutes at the 4 if we can (someone to play the 5 and has Ndongo improved his shooting). I expect DO has a higher ceiling than Souare so he gets every chance. Someone has to play the 5 when Ndongo sits or moves to the 4. I don't see Powell in that role so it is either Souare or DO. If Ndongo doesn't play the 4 that is still 10 min or so per game just when he sits.

One final thought about rebounding to pile on your points, GT was 11th in the ACC in defensive rebounding % - but pretty good on the offensive boards at 5th in offensive rebounding % (ACC games only). This despite Ndongo being 8th in the ACC in rebounding (ahead of guys like Post and Hall). It is a team stat that isn't just at the 5. Next year it starts with can Obrien rebound at the 4 but also includes the perimeter guys you listed.

Lot of pieces - will be fun to see how they fit together.
 

kg01

Get-Bak! Coach
Featured Member
Messages
15,354
Location
Atlanta
Since the terms of the bet are set...I assume that KG01 (with his perfect record of predictions) will adjudicate this bet?

Well, once they actually come to terms, a prediction will be forthcoming.

And i promise not to let my anti-leather bias come into play. My perfect record supersedes my allegiance to c62.

Kg01 be like…..

Football Booking GIF by ElevenSportsBE

And…..

Judge Joe Brown GIF


And furthermore…
Ice Hockey GIF by NHL

Hey, being the unofficial kangaroo court judge is a thankless gig.
 

leatherneckjacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,148
Location
Atlanta, GA
Great analysis. I have been wondering about defense with George and McCollum as our expected starting backcourt but didn't have the stats you provided to show the defensive issue. I thought Terry would be better defensively but not arguing against the numbers. These numbers both support Mustaf getting early playing time and CDS focus on defense since last year. I don't care who we have at the 5 if we can't guard the perimeter. And team rebounding stats depend a lot more on the 1/2/3 spot than most give credit for - as you are saying.

Specific to DO, I pretty much agree that the structure of the team says he is going to be given every chance to earn 10 + min per game. Like you I think we start with Ndongo and Obrien at the 5/4 with a desire to allow Ndongo to get minutes at the 4 if we can (someone to play the 5 and has Ndongo improved his shooting). I expect DO has a higher ceiling than Souare so he gets every chance. Someone has to play the 5 when Ndongo sits or moves to the 4. I don't see Powell in that role so it is either Souare or DO. If Ndongo doesn't play the 4 that is still 10 min or so per game just when he sits.

One final thought about rebounding to pile on your points, GT was 11th in the ACC in defensive rebounding % - but pretty good on the offensive boards at 5th in offensive rebounding % (ACC games only). This despite Ndongo being 8th in the ACC in rebounding (ahead of guys like Post and Hall). It is a team stat that isn't just at the 5. Next year it starts with can Obrien rebound at the 4 but also includes the perimeter guys you listed.

Lot of pieces - will be fun to see how they fit together.
I do not disagree with you, but I would add that that I think there will also be times when we go small with Reeves or Sutton on the court with three guards and Baye.

The four guards (George, McCollum, Mustaf, and Terry) and Baye are the strength of the team and will carve out the most minutes in my opinion. We will probably only start three of the guards, but all four will get a lot PT. So, I think O'Brien will be the fifth starter with the three guards and Baye. After those six, Reeves and Sutton will then get the most minutes on the wing. While Powell, Souare and then finally DO eating up the remaining 4/5 minutes. I just did not see enough in DO's film to think he is ACC ready. I think he probably needs a year to develop.
 

orientalnc

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Retired Staff
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Looking at the OOC schedule (at the least the beginning), I believe we will see a lot of minutes from guys who will not get many minutes in the ACC.

W Georgia is picked to finish last in the Atlantic Sun conference. This game should be essentially over very early with few minutes from the upper classmen. If not, this will be a very long season.
N Florida is picked to finish 7th out of 12 teams in that same conference. This might be a closer game, but, again, lots of minutes spread around.
Texas Southern is picked to win the SWAC this year, so we might start seeing a real starting lineup and fewer minutes spread around.

The point of this is to say CDS likely wants to have his frontcourt guys ready to play by the time Tech faces uga and Cincy. Both will have big lineups and we are not likely to play small in either game. Look forward to seeing significant minutes from DO in the first three games to get him as ready as possible. uga has two 5* freshman bigs and Cincy has a huge lineup.
 

AUFC

Helluva Engineer
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Atlanta
Are the scrimmage games before the season open to the public?
The men will only be playing private scrimmages this season while the women have an exhibition game scheduled for the night of Halloween. I haven’t heard any inklings of closed door scrimmages for the men yet, which is strange because several teams have already hosted live crowd games this week.
 

lv20gt

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,586
For those who would like an explanation of "Drtg," you can find the formula here

Personally, the stat requires a lot of sweat to produce an assessment that would take just a few minutes of watching a game to see if a player is a good defender or not. The value of he stat is further obscured by the team nature of the game. For instance, how does the presence of an excellent post defender effect that defensive stats of a guard who might change how he defends if he is backed by a fine weak side defender? How are the stats of a post defender effected if he plays with guards who are committed to defending the three at the expense of allowing dribble penetration?

Call me a "Drtg" skeptic.

Last year's team defensive efficiency was as bad as the team's offensive efficiency (which was bad) so if we are going to make predictions based on last year's stats, we are looking at a TALL mountain to climb this year.

I prefer to give the players and coach a clean slate this season. That doesn't help in terms of predictions, but forecasting ain't my big thang.

I agree that drtg isn't the be all end all, and in general defensive stats aren't the best. But I'm not sure the eyeball test is actually reliable based on recent history here. Anyways, I wouldn't bother comparing the raw numbers across different teams, as I don't think Baye and McCollum are actually identical defenders. But I do think that looking at where a player stands relatively on a team can shed some insight. IMO for most teams, the players at the top in that regard are likely to be near the top for most other teams as well. Similar with the bottom. We saw that with Jalon Moore and Smith last year who were both near the top of that rating the year before for us, and then again for the respective new teams, even though Jalon went to a significantly better defensive team overall.

I really wasn't making a prediction on the overall performance of the team this year, although I do think it is a taller mountain to climb than people believe. But rather just going over why I do think we'll be able to get away with going perma small as would seem to be the case for neither DO or RM to have any meaningful role. Our back court has strengths, but barring Mustaf transitioning real well, they don't really seemed aligned with doing what is required of a back court to get away with going small permanently.
 

MtnWasp

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,059
I agree that drtg isn't the be all end all, and in general defensive stats aren't the best...
To be clear, I wasn't trying to be dismissive of your point but just making general conversation about the stat.

While I am sure that there are individual player stats that are correlative with wins and losses, e.g., when player z has less than x number of turnovers, the team wins at y%. I think team statistics have far greater predictive power.

How the individual player pieces come together represents a complex system that is notoriously difficult to predict without some outcomes to give the stats some 'oomph.'
 

Connell62

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
3,113
Well, once they actually come to terms, a prediction will be forthcoming.

And i promise not to let my anti-leather bias come into play. My perfect record supersedes my allegiance to c62.



Hey, being the unofficial kangaroo court judge is a thankless gig.
Set a betting line please so that I can get some of that action too!
 

RamblinRed

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Featured Member
Messages
5,901
Bennett has resigned at UVA.
Basically felt like he wasn't the best coach for UVA in the new environment.


"I don't think I'm equipped in this new way to coach, and it's a disservice if you keep doing that," Bennett said. "I'm very sure that this is the right step. I wish I could've gone longer. I really do. But it was time."
"If you're going to do it, you've got to be all in. You've got to have everything. If you do it half-hearted, it's not fair to the university, and to those young men. So in looking at it, that's what made me step down."

"The game, and college athletics, is not in a healthy spot," he said. "It's not. And there needs to be change.

"I was equipped to do the job the old way. That's who I am," he continued. "But there needs to be change. It's going to be closer to a professional model. There's got to be collective bargaining. There's got to be restrictions on a salary pool a team can spend. There has to be transfer regulation restrictions. There has to be some restrictions on the agent involvement on some of the young guys."
 
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