2023-2024 ROSTER???

[Techster]

I think you’re right. I REALLY like Moore and his potential which may not have been truly hitting on all cylinders until his Sr year.
If I’m in Vegas, my money is on scenario that CDS prob loved Moore’s potential, but also said, based on stats, Moore’s role would prob be, rebounds, put backs, rim runs, and lockdown defender - make a living off the shooters’ misses. I’m guessing Moore wants to have license to shoot - I would too; he has potential - and with a limited role, Moore couldn’t get to his NBA dream as a thinner 6’7” SF that doesn’t have proven/respected jump shot. Big loss at this moment. Maybe CDS has someone new in mind to help fill role.

Agree with this. I LOVE Moore's potential and athleticism, and I think there's a role for him on any team (as you pointed out), BUT I don't think he fully fits the role of what Stoudamire wants from a Guard or a Forward. That would cut into his playing time and Moore most likely would be a spot reserve under Stoudamire. Moore is a "tweener" on this level.

You hate to lose talent, and I think Moore will be a good talent for some team out there. Stoudamire is basically ripping the bandage off this team...the results on the floor will be the ultimate judge of whether it was the best decision.

 

[slugboy]

I’m reminded of Ursula in Little Mermaid - “Life is full of tough choices.”

CDS may have a plan behind all of this that gets revealed sooner than later. We’ll see. So far his chess moves seem to be paying off so hard to tell yet if this is a fumble or a master level move.

Jalon Moore doesn’t seem like a planned move. If you have a player who isn’t going to fit, it makes more sense to get them in the portal early so you maximize your options to find a replacement, plus give them the best options to find a new home.
Unless we have two new players already lined up, this seems like Moore’s decision.

 

[lv20gt]

WHy are you locked into positions like it's the 1980s again? We could easily play four of your PG/SG/SF together.

Because classifying players by positions makes it easier to have meaningful discussions about the roster. Yes, we could play either 4 guards/wings or go Claude + Dowuona. But both of those line ups come with holes based on players playing out of position which is why we are likely, and likely were even before Moore went into the portal, trying to find someone who can both give us some interior defense and rebounding as well as help space the court on offense.

 

[dtm1997]

WHy are you locked into positions like it's the 1980s again? We could easily play four of your PG/SG/SF together.

I was about to ask something similar.

 

[dtm1997]

Jalon Moore doesn’t seem like a planned move. If you have a player who isn’t going to fit, it makes more sense to get them in the portal early so you maximize your options to find a replacement, plus give them the best options to find a new home.
Unless we have two new players already lined up, this seems like Moore’s decision.

I've gotten the sense they wanted to keep Moore.

 

[GoJacketsInRaleigh]

Because classifying players by positions makes it easier to have meaningful discussions about the roster. Yes, we could play either 4 guards/wings or go Claude + Dowuona. But both of those line ups come with holes based on players playing out of position which is why we are likely, and likely were even before Moore went into the portal, trying to find someone who can both give us some interior defense and rebounding as well as help space the court on offense.

Plenty of teams run 4 out offenses and aren't locked into 2 traditional post players. We have the athletes to do this. Let's see how CDS deploys them

 

[OG-T]

I was about to ask something similar.

Not locked into positions, but “rebounding” is timeless, and rebounders who are offensive threats is contemporary - and as defenses tighten with deeper runs, extending possessions with second-chance is a hallmark of success and champions. It’s a “guard’s league” in the season, until it’s a “rebounder’s run” in tourneys. Love the guards we have, but our best rebounding guard is in the portal. We need size and skill at some point.

 

[orientalnc]

I've gotten the sense they wanted to keep Moore.

I am suspicious of announcements that coincide with the release of grades. Or the end of final exams.

 

[YlJacket]

I am suspicious of announcements that coincide with the release of grades. Or the end of final exams.

That makes more sense than most anything else here

 

[78pike]

Jalon Moore doesn’t seem like a planned move. If you have a player who isn’t going to fit, it makes more sense to get them in the portal early so you maximize your options to find a replacement, plus give them the best options to find a new home.
Unless we have two new players already lined up, this seems like Moore’s decision.

When you shoot 4 for 35 from the three point line nobody is going to guard you there leaving a defender to back off and clog the shooting lanes for the remaining perimeter shooters. In a 4 out offense you can't afford that. Not sure if coach suggested anything to Moore or if he figured it out on his own but he did the best thing for himself by hitting the portal. I'm sure he can find a much better fit for his potential elsewhere. But until he can find a place to realize that potential that is all it is and I don't think he was going to get that chance here. I wish him well but at 6'7" he needs to find an outside shot to get any playing time. Also his turnover to assist ratio was pretty bad making him even more of a liability in a 4 out offense. Not trying to bash the guy but the facts speak for themselves. I think Jalen can be a big asset at a mid major that plays a fast tempo up and down the court game where he can match up defensively with guys closer to his size around the basket.

 

[tbglover]

Jalon Moore doesn’t seem like a planned move. If you have a player who isn’t going to fit, it makes more sense to get them in the portal early so you maximize your options to find a replacement, plus give them the best options to find a new home.
Unless we have two new players already lined up, this seems like Moore’s decision.

Exactly.

When you shoot 4 for 35 from the three point line nobody is going to guard you there leaving a defender to back off and clog the shooting lanes for the remaining perimeter shooters. In a 4 out offense you can't afford that. Not sure if coach suggested anything to Moore or if he figured it out on his own but he did the best thing for himself by hitting the portal. I'm sure he can find a much better fit for his potential elsewhere. But until he can find a place to realize that potential that is all it is and I don't think he was going to get that chance here. I wish him well but at 6'7" he needs to find an outside shot to get any playing time. Also his turnover to assist ratio was pretty bad making him even more of a liability in a 4 out offense. Not trying to bash the guy but the facts speak for themselves. I think Jalen can be a big asset at a mid major that plays a fast tempo up and down the court game where he can match up defensively with guys closer to his size around the basket.

And if you're a smart coach you put in better positions to succeed. First of all you see if he can develop that shot and even if he can't you put him in the midrange if that's a shot he can make. Also if you're smart enough to move without the ball he can utilized as a cutter off of ballhandlers. You can't ignore non shooters if they get themselves open in positions where they can convert the shot or be aggressive and get themselves to the free throw line and he led the team in free throw attempts this season. Besides we know that CDS is a defensive coach and you can never have too many 6'5-6'9 athletic guys on that end of the floor.
I hope that he decides to stay with the program.

 

[YlJacket]

The issue with Jalen is not what he is but what he has the potential to be. He has Moses level athleticism which gives him a very high ceiling. As did Moses he is going to have to develop his skills to get “there”. But if he does he is on an all ACC team. He may not get “there” in which case he is an 8/9 guy on the bench

FWIW I think you miss his defensive ability. He was already a legit defensive 4. He can handle both the more classic double post 4 as well as the new style stretch 4 plus he can guard the 3 spot as well. Very few times is he going to have to guard a 6’ 10” banger in the post for extended time. Defensively he can and did play legit ACC level D. Offense not so much

 

[78pike]

Exactly.

And if you're a smart coach you put in better positions to succeed. First of all you see if he can develop that shot and even if he can't you put him in the midrange if that's a shot he can make. Also if you're smart enough to move without the ball he can utilized as a cutter off of ballhandlers. You can't ignore non shooters if they get themselves open in positions where they can convert the shot or be aggressive and get themselves to the free throw line and he led the team in free throw attempts this season. Besides we know that CDS is a defensive coach and you can never have too many 6'5-6'9 athletic guys on that end of the floor.
I hope that he decides to stay with the program.

He led the team in free throw attempts but he made less than 69% of them. You talk about putting him in midrange but the 4 out offense doesn't do that. And even if we did put him in midrange as you suggest he almost has to shoot because he had the worst assist to turnover ratio on the team. Look I like the guy and he has all sorts of athletic "potential" but until the potential is realized that's all it is. I'm just saying he wasn't going to get the chance to realize the potential in the offense we are going to play so whether this was him realizing it or CDS sitting him down and laying it out for him, entering the portal is probably the best chance he has to see significant minutes in the near future. The comparison to Moses comes up all the time but Moses was much stronger and bigger with a much better outside shot and better instincts with the ball. Not really a fair comparison. Just two very athletic guys who had potential but only one of them was able to develop that potential. Moses got better each year. Jalon really hasn't.

 

[lv20gt]

He led the team in free throw attempts but he made less than 69% of them. You talk about putting him in midrange but the 4 out offense doesn't do that. And even if we did put him in midrange as you suggest he almost has to shoot because he had the worst assist to turnover ratio on the team. Look I like the guy and he has all sorts of athletic "potential" but until the potential is realized that's all it is. I'm just saying he wasn't going to get the chance to realize the potential in the offense we are going to play so whether this was him realizing it or CDS sitting him down and laying it out for him, entering the portal is probably the best chance he has to see significant minutes in the near future.

You say that like 68.8% from the FT is terrible. It's not great by any stretch, but It's still 1.376 points on average for the possession (assuming fouled on a missed two point shot). That is still a productive trip down the floor. For comparison if Kelly shot a 3 last year and we didn't get a rebound it'd be about 1.137. Even if we account for a "good look" which would raise his % it would take him shooting nearly 46% to have the same average points in the possession. Obviously that's oversimplifying it but in general his ability to get to the line and convert reasonably well is a good tool for him.

The second thing is that any 4 out offense in college will have to deal with the possibility of having to play a sub average shooter at one of the wing spots because of the need for rebounding/defense. Ideally you'd have a 35% shooter who can pull down 7 rebs a game and hold his own inside as well, but that is a highly sought after skill set and you're not going to always have that. Moore was the only wing we had that really fit that mold and while he needed to improve to make that work we also have to be able to work in a guy like him and have a functioning offense because it's not that he has no tools to be able to contribute on that end.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

You say that like 68.8% from the FT is terrible. It's not great by any stretch, but It's still 1.376 points on average for the possession (assuming fouled on a missed two point shot). That is still a productive trip down the floor. For comparison if Kelly shot a 3 last year and we didn't get a rebound it'd be about 1.137. Even if we account for a "good look" which would raise his % it would take him shooting nearly 46% to have the same average points in the possession. Obviously that's oversimplifying it but in general his ability to get to the line and convert reasonably well is a good tool for him.

The second thing is that any 4 out offense in college will have to deal with the possibility of having to play a sub average shooter at one of the wing spots because of the need for rebounding/defense. Ideally you'd have a 35% shooter who can pull down 7 rebs a game and hold his own inside as well, but that is a highly sought after skill set and you're not going to always have that. Moore was the only wing we had that really fit that mold and while he needed to improve to make that work we also have to be able to work in a guy like him and have a functioning offense because it's not that he has no tools to be able to contribute on that end.

I’m old school I guess. We used to think anything below 80% from the line was inferior. But your “money ball” analysis is certainly another way to look at it.

 

[lv20gt]

I’m old school I guess. We used to think anything below 80% from the line was inferior. But your “money ball” analysis is certainly another way to look at it.

It's not good. I'm of the opinion that anyone who plays should be able to be 80%+ from the free-throw line because it's an uncontested mid range shot from the same spot every time that you don't have to rush. It's certainly losing out on easy points to be below 80% but it's good enough where him going to the line should be seen as a win for the offense and so his high FTA rate is something that is beneficial (as opposed to if Smith was going that much)

 

[slugboy]

It's not good. I'm of the opinion that anyone who plays should be able to be 80%+ from the free-throw line because it's an uncontested mid range shot from the same spot every time that you don't have to rush. It's certainly losing out on easy points to be below 80% but it's good enough where him going to the line should be seen as a win for the offense and so his high FTA rate is something that is beneficial (as opposed to if Smith was going that much)

The average free throw percentage has hovered at 68% for more than 30 years

Women are better than men at the free throw line

A new study looks at decades of NCAA free throws, finding that women shoot at 3 percent higher consistency than men.

theconversation.com

Only Villanova averaged over 80% last season

NCAA College Men's Basketball DI current team Stats | NCAA.com

Discover the current NCAA Division I Men's Basketball leaders in every stats category, as well as historic leaders.

www.ncaa.com

Maybe it should be a point of emphasis, but it’s apparently not and hasn’t been for ages. You would think that if it was a competitive advantage that teams with a recruiting disadvantage would focus there and make hay at the charity stripe

 

[Northeast Stinger]

The average free throw percentage has hovered at 68% for more than 30 years

Women are better than men at the free throw line

A new study looks at decades of NCAA free throws, finding that women shoot at 3 percent higher consistency than men.

theconversation.com

Only Villanova averaged over 80% last season

NCAA College Men's Basketball DI current team Stats | NCAA.com

Discover the current NCAA Division I Men's Basketball leaders in every stats category, as well as historic leaders.

www.ncaa.com

Maybe it should be a point of emphasis, but it’s apparently not and hasn’t been for ages. You would think that if it was a competitive advantage that teams with a recruiting disadvantage would focus there and make hay at the charity stripe

Agree that free throw shooting has been under emphasized in college. Two things though. Teams that were solid at the free throw line back in day used to upset teams that were ranked higher.

Yeah, I almost, kind of, made that up but it sure seems like a legitimate memory.

Also, want to make it in the NBA? I bet you could find 75 players in the NBA who shoot better than 80% from the line. So it’s not like this is unimportant.

 

[Root4GT]

I’m old school I guess. We used to think anything below 80% from the line was inferior. But your “money ball” analysis is certainly another way to look at it.

Shooting 80% of FTs as a team is extraordinarily rare. If there are more than 3 Division 1 teams who do so any given year it is a remarkable year. 70% has been the norm for 50+ years. It is a myth FT shooting is worse now than long ago.

 

[orientalnc]

Shooting 80% of FTs as a team is extraordinarily rare. If there are more than 3 Division 1 teams who do so any given year it is a remarkable year. 70% has been the norm for 50+ years. It is a myth FT shooting is worse now than long ago.

Here is a spreadsheet with the data for NCAA D1 FT percentages.

NCAA Basketball Stats - NCAA BB Team Free Throw % | TeamRankings.com

NCAA Basketball free throw %, by team.

www.teamrankings.com