Zach Pyron is a tough dude!

[Bogey]

Cherry picking stats can prove or disapprove most anything. Personally I trust my eyes.

 

[bobongo]

No I didn’t. It’s not relevant in disputing that we saw pyron hitting receivers in tight windows better than we have all season, because we didn’t see that.

In the post I answered, you compared Pyron's completion percentage with Haynes King's without the context that Pyron faced a superior defense than we saw all season up to that point.

 

[bobongo]

Cherry picking stats can prove or disapprove most anything. Personally I trust my eyes.

Eyeballs are much more accurate than stats, because they take in the whole context, the entire situation.

 

[beeteam]

Our Oline got whipped by a superior Dline. For any offense to be successful you have be able to run the ball and provide adequate pass protection. As the game wore on it was apparent we were challenged doing these things. Doesn't matter who is slinging or toting when you are getting it handed to you in the trenches. Credit to ND, their defense is stout.

 

[gte447f]

HK was 50% passing the week before against UNC, and that was WITH all the short passes. He sailed several passes way over open receivers' heads, and he's done that in multiple games this season.

Would he likely have been better running, probably. I don't think it would have magically made the whole offense start working, but yes he is faster than Zach.

Would he have been better throwing, no.

Would he have been sacked less, maybe.

Would he have thrown less interceptions, probably but we weren't going to win by throwing 2 incompletions instead of interceptions which is what Haynes would have done. Zach did the same thing Haynes did numerous times last year - the game got out of hand and he started to make riskier throws to try and get us back in the game. Haynes got picked off a bunch last year in the same scenario. Part of that is game experience, but part of that is just not getting in those scenarios.

You are using stats from the unc game to make a false equivalence between king and pyron. The problem with that approach is that king got pulled from that game due to injury. Look at the rest of the season stats for king for what I believe is a better representation of his typical performance.

Again, I’m not condemning pyron. I hope he plays lights out and leads us to a victory as long as he is the starter. I was simply responding to a comment that seemed to imply that Pyron performed better than he actually did and better than king has been or could have (if healthy).

 

[RonJohn]

Of course Buster must be calling the plays that he thinks will work. And no, of course I don’t think I could call plays better than Buster. These questions don’t seem to be real questions, or have anything to do with Zach Pyron or Haynes King.

It has appeared to me that King has been injured, or at least affected by an injury for several games. Most of the long throws he has made in the last several games have not been very accurate. It doesn't have to be a loss of confidence in his ability, it could be concern that he wasn't physically able to accurately make those throws.

Pyron started out 9/9. He was above 78% at half time. The fourth quarter passing was bad, but I think you will have to admit that running a two-minute offense type of play calling is likely to affect completion percentage, and more likely to cause interceptions.

I am not saying that he played like Brady in his prime. I am saying that he played much better than the final stats look. The ND defense had something to do with the final stats, and the way the offense had o play in the final quarter had something to do with it too.

 

[gte447f]

It has appeared to me that King has been injured, or at least affected by an injury for several games. Most of the long throws he has made in the last several games have not been very accurate. It doesn't have to be a loss of confidence in his ability, it could be concern that he wasn't physically able to accurately make those throws.

Pyron started out 9/9. He was above 78% at half time. The fourth quarter passing was bad, but I think you will have to admit that running a two-minute offense type of play calling is likely to affect completion percentage, and more likely to cause interceptions.

I am not saying that he played like Brady in his prime. I am saying that he played much better than the final stats look. The ND defense had something to do with the final stats, and the way the offense had o play in the final quarter had something to do with it too.

These are very reasonable points. I agree with you.

 

[iceeater1969]

I don't understand this argument. Are you saying that a RS Sophomore backup QB who hasn't started in over 2 years and has very limited real-game experience didn't perform as well as the healthy starting QB who has played every game for a year and a half? If that's your argument, then no one will dispute you, but that's a "no duh" argument.

The question is was Pyron a better option than an injured King? The answer is yes. The question is whether that performance is the standard for Pyron or will he be get better at all things QB as he sees more playing time. The answer is he will absolutely, most likely, improve, dramatically.

King has had issues throwing downfield all year. His accuracy has been less than last year and it appears his injury may have affected his throws. This is speculation, but it's speculation based on visual observations and analysis of existing data (i.e., he's injured). When the season is over or King is gone, I suspect there may be more information that comes out about why his throws have been limited.

I know I may be jumping into the middle of a discussion, but I wanted to comment specifically on your past two posts on this subject.

Imo, Pyron was fine and will improve, he was just drinking from a fire hose.

Can you add the medical description of the type of injury that makes him the most accurate passer in the nation when throwing towards sideline But not down field? Chronic solimenti side way non labrum teartis (sarcasm= ps i have DISH disease = Diffuse - all over not acute, Idiopathic- no known cause or cure, Skeletal, Hyperostiosis. DOC, what does this mean in 10 years? If you dont excercise you will look like the old guy in the Simpson ).

Also if he is inaccurate down field why are there no interceptions this year verses last year. He has been told zero int?

I love pyron too but Pyron would have had 3 interception if one was not dropped. Some was on first big game start Pyron, some was on a very good ND is good, and some is we AGAIN GOT IN A PLACE WERE WE HAVE TO GET gash plays.

Last year Singleton was new guy and now is known. King and he connected on long passes and singleton would have had more except he dropped a few. Now this year they know Malik is only other wr that can get space on good db. If we wait till we have to pass, the intermediate gash plays are covered and they will let us have the 5 yd plays. The other teams have adjusted.
.
But what i am asking is why not give King , "as a part oofearly game offense" CALLED Intermediate PASSING Attempts.

Is it possible we have only 2 wr that can get open on intermediate route. Please not that.

 

[g0lftime]

I agree with this. Another thing that hampers a passing attack is when your receivers cannot get open. It’s not like we had wide-open guys that Pyron could not find. He had to force the ball into the tightest of windows while being under serious duress every snap.

Whoever was covering Singleton was as fast as he was which you don't see very often. Took away any deep threat plus Zack didn't have much time anyway.

 

[RonJohn]

Can you add the medical description of the type of injury that makes him the most accurate passer in the nation when throwing towards sideline But not down field? Chronic solimenti side way non labrum teartis (sarcasm= ps i have DISH disease = Diffuse - all over not acute, Idiopathic- no known cause or cure, Skeletal, Hyperostiosis. DOC, what does this mean in 10 years? If you dont excercise you will look like the old guy in the Simpson ).

Also if he is inaccurate down field why are there no interceptions this year verses last year. He has been told zero int?

Anything that would cause tightness or intermittent pain could cause downfield passing to be inaccurate. Also, quite possible to still throw screen passes well with slight/medium tightness or pain.

Screens are easier to complete and less subject to interceptions. He has been much more accurate and selective about the intermediate passes, and crossing routes. He hasn't thrown many long attempts this year, and all that I can remember were well off target. Easy to not have interceptions on long passes if you never attempt them. He threw a long pass in the Ga State game for a TD, but that pass was 10 yards short. The receiver had to come back for the ball. Fortunately he was 20 yards open. The explanation after the game was that he wanted to ensure he didn't overthrow the receiver. I thought that was a reasonable explanation then, but now I wonder if he wasn't already injured at that point.

I don't think any of that is negative towards King. I think he has had some kind of upper body injury since at least the Louisville game, and maybe all the way back to the Syracuse game. He has been able to run well, even while (I suspect) managing an injury that affected his ability to throw the ball. He is a very good ball player.

Pyron was responsible for all but 35 yards of GT's offense on Saturday. He threw for almost 300 yards. I don't understand why people are trying to criticize him.

 

[roadkill]

There has been a narrative that King hasn’t been effective throwing downfield this season, in terms of either attempts or completions. Let’s assume that this premise is correct.
Reasons given:

• Play-calling philosophy that removes down-field passes from King’s choices.
• His receivers are covered.
• Our O-line isn’t able to give him enough time for long routes to develop.
• He’s been injured.
• He’s been inaccurate at long throws.
• He has been coached to cut down on interceptions.
• He hasn’t been allowed to.

I could probably find more but those are just off the top of my head.

Most of these reasons are interrelated – some are contributing factors to others. What we don’t know with any certainty is to what degree is it due to our coaches, vs. which reasons are choices that King makes within the play? It could be some of both. I don’t see how it is possible to assign a simple, singular cause to what we are seeing, yet many persist in doing this.

 

[BleedGoldNWhite21]

Nothing against Pyron, he wasn’t the reason we lost, but Haynes King might be the most disrespected QB by his own fans in the ACC. You guys are delusional.

 

[JacketOff]

Nothing against Pyron, he wasn’t the reason we lost, but Haynes King might be the most disrespected QB by his own fans in the ACC. You guys are delusional.

Who is disrespecting Haynes King here?

 

[Root4GT]

Eyeballs are much more accurate than stats, because they take in the whole context, the entire situation.

The eyeballs said Pyron started the game throwing good passes to the correct reads. From the first TD until the last TD drive he was both making many poor decisions and throwing many poor passes. He was the QB that game so he is the only QB we can base anything on. Overall he did not have a very good game. I expect he would acknowledge it was not the game he was planning on playing.

ND was a tough opponent. Two years off from true game action is a long time. Thee is no real way to base any long-term opinion on the ND game. It was not a good game for Zach. I expect he will play better in any future game he plays significant minutes this season.

 

[iceeater1969]

I don't know if it's "better than we have all season", but I saw Pyron hit some tight window passes.

Gunslinger is a needed quality. Patience is also
a good quality. This is what everyone said about king - cut down int.

 

[JacketOff]

The eyeballs said Pyron started the game throwing good passes to the correct reads. From the first TD until the last TD drive he was both making many poor decisions and throwing many poor passes. He was the QB that game so he is the only QB we can base anything on. Overall he did not have a very good game. I expect he would acknowledge it was not the game he was planning on playing.

ND was a tough opponent. Two years off from true game action is a long time. Thee is no real way to base any long-term opinion on the ND game. It was not a good game for Zach. I expect he will play better in any future game he plays significant minutes this season.

Zach would probably say he didn’t play a good game. But anybody that knows ball knows that Notre Dame has one of the best defenses in the country, and Pyron played better than almost all of the QBs they have faced to this point.

I think it’s pretty clear Pyron’s play was far from the reason Tech lost. In fact I’d say he played a pretty good game considering he was under duress all day and the run game was non existent. Add in the fact that ND has been one of the stoutest defenses in the country this year and Pyron arguably played better than every other QB Notre Dame has faced this year

Zach Pyron today: 20/36 269yds 1 TD 2 INTS 13 carries 45 yards

Weigman (TAMU): 12/30 100 yds 0 TD 2INTS 7 carries 26 yards

Hampton (NIU): 10/19 198 yds 1 TD 0 INT 5 carries 21 yards

Card (Purdue): 11/24 124 yds 1 TD 2 INTS
6 carries -42 yds (yes that’s negative 42)

Gabbert (Miami OH): 14/35 119 yds 0 TD 2 INTS 6 carries -6yds

Shough (Louisville): 24/41 264yds 3 TD 1 INT 5 carries 36 yards

Daniels (Stanford): 8/13 74yds 0 TD 0 INT
14 carries 42yds

So with the exception of Tyler Shough, Pyron played better than every other QB on their schedule. Including Conner Weigman who is quarterbacking 6-1 and undefeated in the SEC Texas A&M.

Sure, Pyron could’ve played better. We also could’ve protected him more and ran the ball more effectively. Pyron accounted for 300 yards and a higher QBR than Riley Leonard. There’s no reason to act like Pyron played a bad game. The team played a bad game, and Pyron didn’t have a great performance, but it was very far from poor.

 

[Root4GT]

Zach would probably say he didn’t play a good game. But anybody that knows ball knows that Notre Dame has one of the best defenses in the country, and Pyron played better than almost all of the QBs they have faced to this point.


Sure, Pyron could’ve played better. We also could’ve protected him more and ran the ball more effectively. Pyron accounted for 300 yards and a higher QBR than Riley Leonard. There’s no reason to act like Pyron played a bad game. The team played a bad game, and Pyron didn’t have a great performance, but it was very far from poor.

I guess we disagree. He played very well for 3 drives. He played poorly the rest of the game. There are always many reasons a QB plays well or poor that are more than the individual.

ND was clearly the better team on Saturday. How Leonard played lookin at statistics is not very relevant as his team controlled the game from the 7 minute mark on and were never really in danger of losing. Leonard played a smart game and did what was needed for ND to control the game.

 

[stinger78]

Yes, I know, I’ve watched all the games. It’s been a frustration of mine that King hasn’t been allowed to air it down field more. That doesn’t change the fact that what we saw from Pyron against ND was not up to the level of what Haynes King would have been expected to provide had he played. He would have most likely been better running and throwing the ball. He would have most likely been sacked less, and he most likely would have thrown fewer interceptions. I was simply refuting the notion that we saw anything new and improved from Pyron over what we would have likely gotten from King, because we didn’t.

How do you know this?

 

[gte447f]

How do you know this?

Did you see anything new and improved from pyron beyond what we have seen from king all season?

 

[JacketOff]

I guess we disagree. He played very well for 3 drives. He played poorly the rest of the game. There are always many reasons a QB plays well or poor that are more than the individual.

ND was clearly the better team on Saturday. How Leonard played lookin at statistics is not very relevant as his team controlled the game from the 7 minute mark on and were never really in danger of losing. Leonard played a smart game and did what was needed for ND to control the game.

So Leonard played a smart game even though statistically he was worse than Pyron, and Pyron played terrible even though he was better than all of the other QBs Notre Dame has played this year. Got it.

Should’ve known not to argue with the guy who argued over the semantics of below average / not good /bad /very bad/ horrible /terrible /disastrous /horrendous all offseason.