Willie Fritz and the spread option

[vamosjackets]

Did we have any other OL in the last decade make the NFL?

You know that it only takes one counter-example to disprove a proposition, right? The proposition was that Braun had no hope of going to the NFL by staying here. Shaq is the counter-example that blows that proposition out of the water. If you're good enough to make the NFL as an OL'man, it doesn't matter if what program you played for in college. Do you think the reason none of our other OL made the NFL was because they weren't talented enough or because they played at GT? If it was because they played at GT, then the Shaq Mason story wouldn't exist. Since it does, it couldn't have been because they played at GT.

And, we actually did have a couple more - Cord Howard had a cup of coffee and Omoregie Uzzi was looked at closely but his injury kept him from it - he had to have surgery after his last season.

If Braun is good enough to make in in the league, he'd make it from Texas or GT, and if he's not he wouldn't make it from Texas nor GT.

 

[Pointer]

Did we have any other OL in the last decade make the NFL?

By your string of logic, none of our WR's should ever sniff the league either... But we all know how flawed that logic is.

 

[smokey_wasp]

@smokey_wasp and @MWBATL , I have appreciated your tone in these discussions. Probably better than my own at times.
I don't think your answers here are off base. I would agree with you (and it seems obvious) that successful college football programs require a combination of coaching/scheme and recruiting. I've done some thinking about it, and I think the difference between us is more about emphasis than philosophy. I, and the option crowd, probably put more emphasis on the coaching/scheming while not neglecting the recruiting where as you guys probably put more emphasis on the recruiting while not neglecting the coaching/scheming. I would still stand on this side of the argument because I think the approach of putting more emphasis on the coaching/scheming while not neglecting recruiting makes more sense for GEORGIA TECH. But, I will wait a few years to give CGC his shot, and will try to be supportive during that time.

This is a fair spot for me to leave it. Good discussion.

 

[Longestday]

@TheFlyest Don't get me wrong. I agree with you 100% that players in general will prefer to play a NFL or more traditional offense. I have no doubt that Oliver would have picked Georgia, Clemson, and or Alabama over GT if he had the offer (no matter the offense). The question is will GT get the players that are needed to compete with Georgia and Bama and Clemson if they don't run the option. We shall both see in the next 4 years in both the high star picking GT and staying at GT.

GT is reaping what they SOW...

Recruiting is not a Coach/system only issues. The school and the budget plays a big part in recruiting. I bet Russel even had some negative effect on get recruiting along with the APR.

Yes the option limits recruiting, and you can blame CPJ all you want. You have that right. But don't you give some credibility that this was not just a CPJ issue?

Question... why did Clemson jump up to a top 3 team with the same head coach? The school and the fans decided they were going to the moon and funded the process while GT went from number 3 spending to last in spending.

 

[Longestday]

@Lee

Year 6 was the end?
Year 7 was 11 and 3 beating Clemson and uga
Year 9 was 9 and 4 beating uga

11-21 including uga and Clemson. Who is beating these two teams lately? CPJ is suppose to beat uga and Clemson with last in the ACC budget?

So I can expect GT to beat uga and Clemson more than the last 30 years average now that we are back to a traditional offense?

Rank the ACC teams that have done better than CPJ over the last 11 years.

The real answer will be know in 3 years. Everything else is just something to do....

 

[lv20gt]

You know that it only takes one counter-example to disprove a proposition, right? The proposition was that Braun had no hope of going to the NFL by staying here.

No, the proposition was that he left to improve his chances of making the NFL. Not that he literally could not make the NFL from GT.

And, we actually did have a couple more - Cord Howard had a cup of coffee and Omoregie Uzzi was looked at closely but his injury kept him from it - he had to have surgery after his last season.

So you say we had a couple more and one of the two you listed didn't actually make the NFL?

 

[vamosjackets]

No, the proposition was that he left to improve his chances of making the NFL. Not that he literally could not make the NFL from GT.

So you say we had a couple more and one of the two you listed didn't actually make the NFL?

So, which of our OL over the last 11 years didn't make the NFL because they played at Georgia Tech instead of a factory?

Yes, Omoregie was one who was good enough and there was interest, but he literally couldn't play anymore because of his injury.

 

[jgtengineer]

So, which of our OL over the last 11 years didn't make the NFL because they played at Georgia Tech instead of a factory?

Yes, Omoregie was one who was good enough and there was interest, but he literally couldn't play anymore because of his injury.

I'm pretty sure we put Shaq in the nfl because of the system. Belechik credited the run blockign as something he couldn't find in most lineman said they could teach the pass pro, but drive blocking was dying. Patriots use a tone of pulling and power in their run game.

 

[TheSilasSonRising]

And, just for clarity, Willie “the pits” Fritz has what to do with any of this?

 

[Lee]

@Lee

Year 6 was the end?
Year 7 was 11 and 3 beating Clemson and uga
Year 9 was 9 and 4 beating uga

11-21 including uga and Clemson. Who is beating these two teams lately? CPJ is suppose to beat uga and Clemson with last in the ACC budget?

So I can expect GT to beat uga and Clemson more than the last 30 years average now that we are back to a traditional offense?

Rank the ACC teams that have done better than CPJ over the last 11 years.

The real answer will be know in 3 years. Everything else is just something to do....

Year 6 was the start of me thinking PJ might not be the answer. 2014 was a blast. I enjoyed the season very much (save watching our defense most of the year). I hated it for him, but was thankful Smelter could no longer play baseball and joined the team. Take him off that team and the season looks different. Again still an awesome season!

The next big sign for me was PJ wasting having M. Marshall and then losing Mills early the next year. Marshall was the best pure RB we had since Dwyer and we ran him off in favor of a guy that prioritized smoking weed over his teammates.

As for Clemson and Ugag, we play them every year. Until they come off the schedule, I’m going to include them. Honestly, both teams were much more beatable over the time frame I listed than they are now. And the gap was growing wider. With Venebles at CU and Kirby at Ugag, I feel confident that PJ wouldn’t have come close to beating either. The new regime may not either, but we were trending in the wrong direction while our top competition was trending in the other direction.

I understand you and a few love PJ. That’s fine. He’s gone now and chose to leave. My original point is that this team was not some juggernaut because if it was, Paul wouldn’t have left when he did. I’m thankful for the good times he gave us, but was fully ready for him to be gone really by the end of the 2017 season. He’s not coming back and we are not going back to his style of offense any time soon. So people can come to grips with that and support the new direction or they can continue to point out every negative thing that the new regime does while only remembering and posting about the good things Paul did.

I’ve never ignored anyone on here prior to this year because I like to hear other people’s opinion. Especially when it’s well thought out. Some people just continue to whine so ignoring them has made reading through this Forum must more pleasant. I enjoy a good discussion and can disagree with someone and still get along with them. I appreciate your opinion and affinity for the intricacies of PJ’s offense. I enjoyed your post game videos. I hope you can understand that I’m not somebody that hates PJ or his offense blindly. I want GT to succeed first and foremost. When it became apparent (to me) that we were not moving in the right direction, I was ready to move on. Nothing against the man. I honestly respect the heck out of him for leaving the way he did. He could’ve made it way more painful for us.

 

[smokey_wasp]

Year 6 was the start of me thinking PJ might not be the answer. 2014 was a blast. I enjoyed the season very much (save watching our defense most of the year). I hated it for him, but was thankful Smelter could no longer play baseball and joined the team. Take him off that team and the season looks different. Again still an awesome season!

The next big sign for me was PJ wasting having M. Marshall and then losing Mills early the next year. Marshall was the best pure RB we had since Dwyer and we ran him off in favor of a guy that prioritized smoking weed over his teammates.

As for Clemson and Ugag, we play them every year. Until they come off the schedule, I’m going to include them. Honestly, both teams were much more beatable over the time frame I listed than they are now. And the gap was growing wider. With Venebles at CU and Kirby at Ugag, I feel confident that PJ wouldn’t have come close to beating either. The new regime may not either, but we were trending in the wrong direction while our top competition was trending in the other direction.

I understand you and a few love PJ. That’s fine. He’s gone now and chose to leave. My original point is that this team was not some juggernaut because if it was, Paul wouldn’t have left when he did. I’m thankful for the good times he gave us, but was fully ready for him to be gone really by the end of the 2017 season. He’s not coming back and we are not going back to his style of offense any time soon. So people can come to grips with that and support the new direction or they can continue to point out every negative thing that the new regime does while only remembering and posting about the good things Paul did.

I’ve never ignored anyone on here prior to this year because I like to hear other people’s opinion. Especially when it’s well thought out. Some people just continue to whine so ignoring them has made reading through this Forum must more pleasant. I enjoy a good discussion and can disagree with someone and still get along with them. I appreciate your opinion and affinity for the intricacies of PJ’s offense. I enjoyed your post game videos. I hope you can understand that I’m not somebody that hates PJ or his offense blindly. I want GT to succeed first and foremost. When it became apparent (to me) that we were not moving in the right direction, I was ready to move on. Nothing against the man. I honestly respect the heck out of him for leaving the way he did. He could’ve made it way more painful for us.

Good post.

 

[Ibeeballin]

@MWBATL only time will tell on recruiting. I have no doubt that it will uptick due to change in offense, but GT is not easy to recruit and harder to keep athletes on track for a degree.

I'm sure everyone will be on the bad wagon whenever the winning starts.

Who told you that?

 

[gthxxxx]

Who told you that?

Are you saying the statement that "GT is harder to keep athletes on track for a degree" is false? I would think it's pretty obvious, unless you're nitpicking details; e.g. it may be harder for Cal Tech to keep its Div 3 basketball athletes on track for a degree.

 

[Pointer]

Year 6 was the start of me thinking PJ might not be the answer. 2014 was a blast. I enjoyed the season very much (save watching our defense most of the year). I hated it for him, but was thankful Smelter could no longer play baseball and joined the team. Take him off that team and the season looks different. Again still an awesome season!

The next big sign for me was PJ wasting having M. Marshall and then losing Mills early the next year. Marshall was the best pure RB we had since Dwyer and we ran him off in favor of a guy that prioritized smoking weed over his teammates.

As for Clemson and Ugag, we play them every year. Until they come off the schedule, I’m going to include them. Honestly, both teams were much more beatable over the time frame I listed than they are now. And the gap was growing wider. With Venebles at CU and Kirby at Ugag, I feel confident that PJ wouldn’t have come close to beating either. The new regime may not either, but we were trending in the wrong direction while our top competition was trending in the other direction.

I understand you and a few love PJ. That’s fine. He’s gone now and chose to leave. My original point is that this team was not some juggernaut because if it was, Paul wouldn’t have left when he did. I’m thankful for the good times he gave us, but was fully ready for him to be gone really by the end of the 2017 season. He’s not coming back and we are not going back to his style of offense any time soon. So people can come to grips with that and support the new direction or they can continue to point out every negative thing that the new regime does while only remembering and posting about the good things Paul did.

I’ve never ignored anyone on here prior to this year because I like to hear other people’s opinion. Especially when it’s well thought out. Some people just continue to whine so ignoring them has made reading through this Forum must more pleasant. I enjoy a good discussion and can disagree with someone and still get along with them. I appreciate your opinion and affinity for the intricacies of PJ’s offense. I enjoyed your post game videos. I hope you can understand that I’m not somebody that hates PJ or his offense blindly. I want GT to succeed first and foremost. When it became apparent (to me) that we were not moving in the right direction, I was ready to move on. Nothing against the man. I honestly respect the heck out of him for leaving the way he did. He could’ve made it way more painful for us.

Smelter was great, but you're forgetting about Waller and completely discrediting the staff by doing that. I remember there wasn't much of a drop off in the FSU and MSU game thanks largely to Waller.

Marshall left because he couldn't handle competition. Mills left because school policy, can't put that on PJ. BTW many people have stated that PJ was too loyal to play the better player, well the Marshall case is a direct contradiction to that.

Clemson and UGA have been pretty good for a while. Clemson has been this level good since 2013-2014. UGA has always had the talent they have now, so you really can't fault Paul too much for his overall record vs those two considering the school budget in recruiting and football in general during his tenure.

And how convenient that you are now changing you're give up date from year 6 to 2017.

Writing some nice things in the last 1/4 of your post about the previous staff and coach doesn't cover up the heap of false garbage you dumped on them for the first 3/4th of the same post.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Are you saying the statement that "GT is harder to keep athletes on track for a degree" is false? I would think it's pretty obvious, unless you're nitpicking details; e.g. it may be harder for Cal Tech to keep its Div 3 basketball athletes on track for a degree.

Pretty obvious to who? Tech is like any other place or life. You get out what you put in

It has been a constant theme that Longestday has been insinuating that somehow the better the recruit the lower the IQ/inability for them stay eligible. I just want to know where exactly is that coming from

 

[Ibeeballin]

A lot of exceptions taking place in this thread

 

[AE 87]

Pretty obvious to who? Tech is like any other place or life. You get out what you put in

It has been a constant theme that Longestday has been insinuating that somehow the better the recruit the lower the IQ/inability for them stay eligible. I just want to know where exactly is that coming from

I'm not as comfortable as some in knowing what people really mean, so let me just ask, if you don't mind.

1) Do you believe that most (not all) top recruits at Alabama and Clemson would be willing and able to put into the classroom work at Tech which you and others who got out did? If so, why might some major in Parks and Recreation?

2) Do you know of guys who signed and started with Tech who transferred out, in part, because f the academic requirements? If so, why would that be if there aren't talented players who either aren't willing or able to do what is expected?

3) Do you believe that the academic expectations for the Business Administration degree at Tech are about the same as at other universities?

 

[Longestday]

@Ibeeballin you got me... I have no data that the majority of the best 4 and 5 star athletes can and want to do and are prepared to graduate from GT. I’m not sure why I even think that... the only reason these highly talented people are not choosing GT is that high school offense or perhaps CPJ just refused to accept their commitment. Playing and schooling at UNC and Georgia is no different than GT. What was I thinking?

On a more serious note, we have had a lot of talented individuals graduate from GT. Playing football and graduating from GT is no easy task. I salute the players, including you @Ibeeballin, for doing both grinds and getting that degree.

I do seriously believe that APR is just as big an issue for GT as some of the bad leadership at the top levels. I think we can both agree the net would be much larger if we had a liberal arts school. I think we can both agree that the easier the school the easier it is to keep players qualified to play. I have no data, you are right, but I BELIEVE that most of uga’s team would not make it at GT (either not prepared or not willing).

 

[vamosjackets]

And, just for clarity, Willie “the pits” Fritz has what to do with any of this?

I believe this is how it started ... it seems many on this board would rather have hired "Willie 'the pits' Fritz" instead of Jeff "slam dunkin" Monken ... which makes less than zero sense and just makes the "option-insanity" abundantly, comically, and frustratingly obvious.

 

[Animal02]

Pretty obvious to who? Tech is like any other place or life. You get out what you put in

It has been a constant theme that Longestday has been insinuating that somehow the better the recruit the lower the IQ/inability for them stay eligible. I just want to know where exactly is that coming from

No Tech is not like any other place that you get out what you put in...I have degrees from two schools, same major. Worked twice as hard at Tech had had a full point difference in GPA(lower at Tech). We would go out drinking the night before an exam at my second Uni. It was a joke.
Not only do they need the ability to meet the coursework......they must WANT to. Frankly, I find amazing that Tech athletes can and do achieve their degrees as well as perform on the field.