Willie Fritz and the spread option

[pbrown520]

I totally agree and freely admit bias here: I had season tix in the late 90s and saw just about every game in 1998, including the fun Bowl win over hated Notre Dame. JoeHam and those WRs are some of my favorite alltime GT football players and really helped us get out of the B**L** doldrums. Plus, it led to the BS failed Heisman candidacy in 1999 and the start of 3 in a row over the mutts after a lengthy drought against those jerks.

I don't have the personal connection with the 2014 team, though enjoyed watching the mutt and OB wins.

... Plus you hate CPJ bwahaha.

 

[RickStromFan]

... Plus you hate CPJ bwahaha.

he has retired. Let it go lol

 

[pbrown520]

he has retired. Let it go lol

Doesn't make it less true. Not sure why you can't just admit it - which is why you take a shot every chance you get. I freely admit that I don't care for Collins' personality and I also can admit that it's most just a preference thing.

Edited to say: I personally don't care if you hate him - call a spade a spade. BTW, this is me moving on. I find it funny at this point.

 

[RickStromFan]

Doesn't make it less true. Not sure why you can't just admit it - which is why you take a shot every chance you get. I freely admit that I don't care for Collins' personality and I also can admit that it's most just a preference thing.

Edited to say: I personally don't care if you hate him - call a spade a spade. BTW, this is me moving on. I find it funny at this point.

not a fan of the scheme. Never met the man though. the scheme had a deleterious effect on the program, as we're seeing in the trenches.

 

[pbrown520]

not a fan of the scheme. Never met the man though. the scheme had a deleterious effect on the program, as we're seeing in the trenches.

And I love the scheme and I liked CPJ's personality. It was time for him to go.

It's time for GT to start winning again - and no one is twisting my arm to listen to coaches' PCs. Here's to hoping that the press man coverage works on the nkosi Perry.

 

[Sidewalking]

No, players came that got better but weren't rated "elite" when they got here. Star ratings absolutely matter for the discussion we're having. Plus, pointing out literally 3 guys in 11 years as examples of Elite Talent flooding into the program is actually proving the opposite.

A top-40 finish in recruiting would be the first in quite some time for us. That's about all I expect at this point. Am tired of being in the 50s.

I never said any absolutes the way you did. You said we had no elite talent in the last 11 years, or words to that effect. I pointed out the fallacy of that statement. No we have not had a bevy of elite talent since.....1990? Settling for top 40 classes isn't going to please those who believe improved recruiting is the path to future greatness. Im pretty certain the current staff won't be very happy if not in the top 20 or so. That's the impression I have anyway.

 

[Sidewalking]

he has retired. Let it go lol

Ummmm....you have talked about him more than anyone else in this thread the last several posts. I wish everyone would let the past go and focus more on the present.

 

[RickStromFan]

Ummmm....you have talked about him more than anyone else in this thread the last several posts. I wish everyone would let the past go and focus more on the present.

Ummm...you & I were having a polite discussion about the scheme and its effects on elite talent. That would naturally include discussing the previous coach.

 

[Sidewalking]

Ummm...you & I were having a polite discussion about the scheme and its effects on elite talent. That would naturally include discussing the previous coach.

And all other prior coaches. Then you went into further discussion about the last coach with others and then complained to others that they were talking too much about the last coach. Just seems a bit hypocritical but that's your prerogative.

 

[RickStromFan]

And all other prior coaches. Then you went into further discussion about the last coach with others and then complained to others that they were talking too much about the last coach. Just seems a bit hypocritical but that's your prerogative.

no, that discussion was specifically about the scheme of the last coach and its effects on attracting elite talent, or rather its inability to do so. No other prior coaches were ever a part of the discussion.

I didn't think anyone would take a comment of "Let it go lol" as serious, esp. since it literally has 'lol' at the end. That anyone saw that as a "complaint" is laughable. The continued taking of offense in discussions about the previous regime is head scratching.

 

[Sidewalking]

Now you are taking the "too extreme" position. Shaq, Braun, Bryan, and JT are just a few elite players Tech landed with the last staff. Also some RBs that didn't pan out and stick for differing reasons. It's a fallacy to say no elite players ever signed. They did. Just not as much as we would like. The same can be said for every Tech staff the last half dozen decades I think.[/QUOTE]

no, that discussion was specifically about the scheme of the last coach and its effects on attracting elite talent, or rather its inability to do so. No other prior coaches were ever a part of the discussion.

I didn't think anyone would take a comment of "Let it go lol" as serious, esp. since it literally has 'lol' at the end. That anyone saw that as a "complaint" is laughable. The continued taking of offense in discussions about the previous regime is head scratching.

Please see the portion in italics/bold/underline. The discussion was about more than just the last staff. That wasn't the only specific either but that's okay. I guess it's fair to say you were only talking about the last coach. But a discussion is a two way conversation and not a monolog. And I clearly referenced other prior staffs going back 60 years.

 

[RickStromFan]

We were clearly talking about the previous scheme and its effects. I apologize for not seeing your single sentence there as an attempt to encompass all former GT coaches and schemes into the conversation. Given the lack of recruiting services that long ago, I'm not sure it's accurate to label teams as lacking-elite-talent in the 50s-80s, just because we've got nothing to go by.

 

[Animal02]

It’s way easier for Football players than the average student.

And is true at EVERY school, so you point is moot.

 

[Sidewalking]

We were clearly talking about the previous scheme and its effects. I apologize for not seeing your single sentence there as an attempt to encompass all former GT coaches and schemes into the conversation. Given the lack of recruiting services that long ago, I'm not sure it's accurate to label teams as lacking-elite-talent in the 50s-80s, just because we've got nothing to go by.

Okay. It's not a big deal. I get that you talk / type more than listen / read and will proceed forward accordingly in future discussions / monologues with you. Have a good day.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

Okay. It's not a big deal. I get that you talk / type more than listen / read and will proceed forward accordingly in future discussions / monologues with you. Have a good day.

Strong the internal monologue is with this one. Blocks all external dialogs it does.

 

[RickStromFan]

Okay. It's not a big deal. I get that you talk / type more than listen / read and will proceed forward accordingly in future discussions / monologues with you. Have a good day.

tongue-in-cheek snark with a sprinkling of sarcasm. We'd get along great together IRL, no sarcasm as long as those goalposts didn't move around so much!
Go Jackets - we agree on that at least.

 

[vamosjackets]

So one is example enough? Is Central Michigan a WR factory because of AB? It’s not fair to include one outlier and present it as overwhelming data.

Outlier =/= Counter Example.
Outlier: a person or thing differing from all other members of a particular group or set.
Counter Example: an example that contradicts or opposes an idea or theory.

Shaq is an outlier in that he was an NFL talent among guys who weren't. He is also a counter-example in that he proves that an NFL-talent at GT goes to the NFL, completely contradicting the idea that you can't go to the NFL as an OL at GT, and opposing the idea that it's less likely for an NFL-talent at GT to go to the NFL.

Please answer this: What OL at GT during the CPJ years had NFL talent but was kept from the NFL because they went to GT instead of a factory? If you don't think of one, then Shaq IS overwhelming data ... It means we're 1 for 1 and batting 100% with sending NFL talents to the NFL.

 

[RonJohn]

Outlier =/= Counter Example.
Outlier: a person or thing differing from all other members of a particular group or set.
Counter Example: an example that contradicts or opposes an idea or theory.

Shaq is an outlier in that he was an NFL talent among guys who weren't. He is also a counter-example in that he proves that an NFL-talent at GT goes to the NFL, completely contradicting the idea that you can't go to the NFL as an OL at GT, and opposing the idea that it's less likely for an NFL-talent at GT to go to the NFL.

Please answer this: What OL at GT during the CPJ years had NFL talent but was kept from the NFL because they went to GT instead of a factory? If you don't think of one, then Shaq IS overwhelming data ... It means we're 1 for 1 and batting 100% with sending NFL talents to the NFL.

I remember a Sunday night NFL game a few years ago when they rotated through the starting lineups stating their name and when they went to school. There were three starters from one team that went to FCS schools. The NFL spends a lot more money finding talent from a much smaller pool than colleges do. If you have ability, they will find you.

 

[SteamWhistle]

Outlier =/= Counter Example.
Outlier: a person or thing differing from all other members of a particular group or set.
Counter Example: an example that contradicts or opposes an idea or theory.

Shaq is an outlier in that he was an NFL talent among guys who weren't. He is also a counter-example in that he proves that an NFL-talent at GT goes to the NFL, completely contradicting the idea that you can't go to the NFL as an OL at GT, and opposing the idea that it's less likely for an NFL-talent at GT to go to the NFL.

Please answer this: What OL at GT during the CPJ years had NFL talent but was kept from the NFL because they went to GT instead of a factory? If you don't think of one, then Shaq IS overwhelming data ... It means we're 1 for 1 and batting 100% with sending NFL talents to the NFL.

Just makes no sense because you are saying Shaq’s talent alone got him there. How is that a positive for GT. Shaq had NFL talent and made it there yes. That’s just hurting CPJ though because you are saying that in 11 years he recruited one OL with NFL talent. I’m sure there were others that had the size, Uzzi, Parker both should’ve went. By saying he’s an outlier is hurting your argument when you also say that there were others that could’ve went. It sounds to me like Shaq was just a baller, I’m not sure how that lessons an argument that GT failed to recruit elite OL talent for years and also the scheme held others back.

 

[vamosjackets]

Just makes no sense because you are saying Shaq’s talent alone got him there. How is that a positive for GT. Shaq had NFL talent and made it there yes. That’s just hurting CPJ though because you are saying that in 11 years he recruited one OL with NFL talent. I’m sure there were others that had the size, Uzzi, Parker both should’ve went. By saying he’s an outlier is hurting your argument when you also say that there were others that could’ve went. It sounds to me like Shaq was just a baller, I’m not sure how that lessons an argument that GT failed to recruit elite OL talent for years and also the scheme held others back.

You are conflating two different topics.
1. GT recruited NFL-level OL'men or not.
2. NFL-level OL'men were able to go to the NFL from GT or not.

Those are two completely different topics. You started with topic #2 and arguing that OL'men would go to the NFL from factories and wouldn't go from GT. But, now you've moved to topic #1 and are arguing that GT didn't recruit NFL-level OL'men. Do you see how that's not the same thing?

If, for some reason, you want to argue that GT didn't recruit any NFL-level OL'men outside of Shaq, I wouldn't argue with you, I would agree with you. We had a LOT of trouble recruiting NFL-level OL'men, but were able to recruit a lot of good OL'men for our system.

I don't know what you mean by "Uzzi, Parker both should've went".We already talked about Uzzi. I'm the one that brought him up. Injuries prevented him from going to the NFL. He had to have surgery after his senior season and couldn't play anymore. There was interest in him from NFL scouts, and it's unfortunate. Wasn't the first or last time a career was ended by injury. Are you talking about Parker Braun?? He transferred and is now still playing college football for Texas. I have no idea what your point is about him.

You still haven't named anyone that GT or its scheme "held back" from the NFL. You're going to have to do that to have any sort of argument at all. It seems to me that every single NFL-level talent GT had at any position on offense (and defense for that matter) went to the NFL, and you're going to have a very difficult time proving otherwise. I have evidence on this side of the argument. You have exactly zero evidence on that side. It's over.