Where We Stand (PPDvPwr5 edition)

Josh H

Jolly Good Fellow
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326
And losing all those seniors and Dennis Andrews. With Laskey in a redshirt year - and why, please, was Paul putting him back there to field punts as a frosh? - and Andrews, that team would have won 6 - 8 games, even with all the injuries. Ah, what could have been!
Keep in mind there was a lot of attrition to start the 2014 season. Didn't hurt the 2014 team much, but left the cupboard bare for 2015. Sprinkle in the injuries and...
 

Augusta_Jacket

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Do you or does anyone have any metrics off hand that compare injuries in 2015 to 2019 (e.g., lost starts)?

By the end of 2019, our DL depth chart was:
  • 7 freshmen
  • A 211 lb converted linebacker (Henderson)
  • A walk-on (Brooks)
  • One upperclassman on scholarship (Glanton)
We were also starting a walk-on on the OL.

I was going to note something similar. I recall having walk-ons either starting or getting significant playing time at both OL and AB in 2015. To me, 2015 and 2019-20 are almost exactly alike in having brand new players across the board. We were depending heavily on a grad transfer BB as well. IOW, a lot of new guys in the scheme had trouble executing it. I think that's basically what we are seeing so far under CGC. It will most likely improve greatly in the next two years.
 

Vespidae

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With the up tempo offenses now ruling P5, I’m not sure defense matters much. The game has changed dramatically just in the last few years.
 

AE 87

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Absolutely! I am a Sims and Collins apologist on this board but this year I expect results, because we saw development from Sims as the season went on.

I’m sure you noticed we held onto the ball much better as the season went on, and in games we didn’t throw it away a million times we put a lot of points on the board.

problem is our defense needs more improvement than our offense in my opinion
I appreciate the friendly response from somone who typically ignores me (IIUC).
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
634
The only thing that matters in 2021 is the offensive line. End of story. Without a legit OLine the QB doesn’t matter. The RB’s won’t matter. The WR’s won’t matter. The defense won’t matter. The kicking game won’t matter. Nothing will matter because it will be a repeat of the turnover fest and 3 and outs. There is no scheme that works with a bad offensive line. I’m very nervous.
 

Heisman's Ghost

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The only thing that matters in 2021 is the offensive line. End of story. Without a legit OLine the QB doesn’t matter. The RB’s won’t matter. The WR’s won’t matter. The defense won’t matter. The kicking game won’t matter. Nothing will matter because it will be a repeat of the turnover fest and 3 and outs. There is no scheme that works with a bad offensive line. I’m very nervous.
Yep. Lines on both sides of the ball but especially on offense separate the good teams from the also rans. In the old days, a team with a great defense and a solid kicking game plus a good running back or two could overcome shortcomings on the offensive line but those days are gone forever.
 

takethepoints

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4,662
Another thread led me to go look at the 2014 Orange Bowl again.

And there it was. How should we use Sims this year? Like Dan Mullen used Dak Prescott. Short Mullen: pass when there's a good chance of completion and use your big stud QB as a running threat whenever you can. Sims and Prescott are the same size (especially now). Let's give him a chance to run over some people and put the fear of God in opposing Ds. This is a recipe for success (i.e. better then 3 wins). Let's see if what's-his-name can seize an opportunity when he sees one,
 

Coloradojacket

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It is interesting to compare offensive production in 2008 vs. 2020 (1.99 ppd vs. 1.86 ppd).

No spring practice prior to 2020 to speak of with a true freshman QB feels somewhat similar in context.

Definitely expect improvement this year, but jumping to 3+ ppd like 2009 is probably unrealistic.
I guess, doing the "biggest transition in college football ever", in 2008, going from Chan's Pro Style to CPJs spread option was pretty hard.... Of course we transitioned by mid season. If you look at the Fla St, Miami and Georgia game the offense was in full power. We have yet to see that during the last 2 years.
 

CuseJacket

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15,391
I guess, doing the "biggest transition in college football ever", in 2008, going from Chan's Pro Style to CPJs spread option was pretty hard.... Of course we transitioned by mid season. If you look at the Fla St, Miami and Georgia game the offense was in full power. We have yet to see that during the last 2 years.
I agree there were better games than others, though I wouldn't say the offense was at full power. In the stretch you cited, we scored 7 against North Carolina and 3 against LSU.

The stats in the OP make it clear that defense was how we won on the whole in 2008. We could cherry pick good games from the offense in 2020 too, but on the whole it wasn't good enough. Points per drive were only .1 different when comparing 2008 to 2020.
 

Coloradojacket

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I agree there were better games than others, though I wouldn't say the offense was at full power. In the stretch you cited, we scored 7 against North Carolina and 3 against LSU.

The stats in the OP make it clear that defense was how we won on the whole in 2008. We could cherry pick good games from the offense in 2020 too, but on the whole it wasn't good enough. Points per drive were only .1 different when comparing 2008 to 2020.
Another thing not talked about 2008, Nesbit was injured in the Miss St. game and sat out the second half and then did not play against Duke or Gardner Webb. And when he came back he was not at full speed the rest of the season.
 

jacketup

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I guess, doing the "biggest transition in college football ever", in 2008, going from Chan's Pro Style to CPJs spread option was pretty hard.... Of course we transitioned by mid season. If you look at the Fla St, Miami and Georgia game the offense was in full power. We have yet to see that during the last 2 years.

And in 2008 we had talent thanks to Chan's recruiting (that with 2009, allowed Johnson to have his only 2 back-to back seasons with over .500 records against FBS teams).

And in 2019 we didn't have FBS talent on the OL (and other spots) thanks to Johnson's recruiting.

You love to post about "scheme" (which to you means Johnson's offense). Scheme doesn't win games; talented players do.
 

Coloradojacket

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And in 2008 we had talent thanks to Chan's recruiting (that with 2009, allowed Johnson to have his only 2 back-to back seasons with over .500 records against FBS teams).

And in 2019 we didn't have FBS talent on the OL (and other spots) thanks to Johnson's recruiting.

You love to post about "scheme" (which to you means Johnson's offense). Scheme doesn't win games; talented players do.
Scheme is using the talent you have and putting them into a play or formation that gives you an advantage. Tech has never had enough talent to overcome the better teams. CRF knew this as did CPJ. I am not certain CDP does. Scheme beat a much more talented Georgia team in 2008.
 

vespinaeGT

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
238
And losing all those seniors and Dennis Andrews. With Laskey in a redshirt year - and why, please, was Paul putting him back there to field punts as a frosh? - and Andrews, that team would have won 6 - 8 games, even with all the injuries. Ah, what could have been!
On Laskey, I think at that point he was still a safety. The year before, the punt returner dropped 2 punts in the Air Force game, so we really needed to make sure we could catch punts haha.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
634
Another thread led me to go look at the 2014 Orange Bowl again.

And there it was. How should we use Sims this year? Like Dan Mullen used Dak Prescott. Short Mullen: pass when there's a good chance of completion and use your big stud QB as a running threat whenever you can. Sims and Prescott are the same size (especially now). Let's give him a chance to run over some people and put the fear of God in opposing Ds. This is a recipe for success (i.e. better then 3 wins). Let's see if what's-his-name can seize an opportunity when he sees one,
We definitely should be using Sims in the running game a lot. But we won’t. Here’s why- it’s called the NFL. Our staff will try to put a square peg in a round whole with Sims. They will try and make him a pocket passer/progression QB. From what I’ve seen so far that’s a tall task. He’s a natural athlete who needs to play off instinct. In college ball that leads to big plays and wins. But since every player sees the NFL in their future they see college football as a stepping stone and now the college coaches are playing along.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
634
I guess, doing the "biggest transition in college football ever", in 2008, going from Chan's Pro Style to CPJs spread option was pretty hard.... Of course we transitioned by mid season. If you look at the Fla St, Miami and Georgia game the offense was in full power. We have yet to see that during the last 2 years.
I agree that Johnson came in and got his offense humming pretty quickly. I wish he would have maintained that fire. But his offense after a decade went from the option to the QB keeper offense with no threat of the downfield pass by Marshall and Oliver. I loved Johnson’s offense from his Southern days and the early GT years, but its on him that he never evolved and couldn’t recruit QB’s consistently.
 

Coloradojacket

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I agree that Johnson came in and got his offense humming pretty quickly. I wish he would have maintained that fire. But his offense after a decade went from the option to the QB keeper offense with no threat of the downfield pass by Marshall and Oliver. I loved Johnson’s offense from his Southern days and the early GT years, but its on him that he never evolved and couldn’t recruit QB’s consistently.
We just didn't have a real QB those two years. Although I think Oliver could have developed into one. He broke all his high school's passing records so he could throw.
 

Heisman's Ghost

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And in 2008 we had talent thanks to Chan's recruiting (that with 2009, allowed Johnson to have his only 2 back-to back seasons with over .500 records against FBS teams).

And in 2019 we didn't have FBS talent on the OL (and other spots) thanks to Johnson's recruiting.

You love to post about "scheme" (which to you means Johnson's offense). Scheme doesn't win games; talented players do.
"Scheme" and talented players took us to the Orange Bowl which we had not seen in 50 years. Coach Johnson was the best day of the game coach we have had seen Bobby Ross. Coach Collins has a long way to go but he has not been a head coach that long. He will get better and so will we... I think.
 

Josh H

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
326
We definitely should be using Sims in the running game a lot. But we won’t. Here’s why- it’s called the NFL. Our staff will try to put a square peg in a round whole with Sims. They will try and make him a pocket passer/progression QB. From what I’ve seen so far that’s a tall task. He’s a natural athlete who needs to play off instinct. In college ball that leads to big plays and wins. But since every player sees the NFL in their future they see college football as a stepping stone and now the college coaches are playing along.
This is an interesting time to make this argument as the NFL is now embracing more dynamic playmakers over the traditional pocket passers of the day. But I'll bite.

Sims averaged about 12 carries a game last year, with NC State (17) and UCF (16) being the highs. Duke was the best performance on the ground (12 for 108), but Louisville was the highest average per carry with only 7 carries (also Sims highest rated performance as a passer). Better defenses (Clemson, Notre Dame, Pitt) completely shut down the QB run game.

Are you saying you want Sims getting 20+ carries a game? That's almost 25% of the offensive snaps. And are you advocating taking those carries away from our stable of talented backs (Gibbs, Mason, Smith, Griffin)? The QB should be the point guard in the offense and distribute the ball to the play makers.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
634
No. I’m talking about having him run when the pass isn’t there. I’m not talking designed runs for him. Designed runs for QB’s really don’t work that often outside of the obvious “sneak” scenarios. Sure, you can catch a defense napping with a QB draw from time to time but the LB’s we play against most weeks have the speed to snuff that stuff out. I’m talking about when the pass play breaks down Sims has the natural ability to make “something out of nothing”. He did it multiple times against FSU when he picked up critical 1st downs and kept drives alive. That element of his skillset went away as the year progressed. I’m sure it was because he was getting his bell rung just about every play due to the offensive line being a sieve. I also saw many times he either threw it away or stepped out short of the first down marker. In other words he is being coached like a pocket passer and not a dual threat QB. That works at Bama and UGA when the QB’s are the tops in the nation and is surrounded by 5* and 4* players. At GT the years we are dynamic is when we have a QB who can do it with his arm and legs. After watching last year Sims has a long ways to go to be the 4* pocket passer. Not a knock on him, but a knock on his high school coaching. I’m hoping what we saw last year was the coaches simply just protecting him due to the poor line and not worrying about wins. If that’s the case then maybe there is a chance his true dual threat potential will be utilized. But I also think that Collins wants to get his guys in the NFL so bad that for future branding/recruiting that the special ingredients it takes to win college games won’t be used.
 

GTBandit22

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
593
We definitely should be using Sims in the running game a lot. But we won’t. Here’s why- it’s called the NFL. Our staff will try to put a square peg in a round whole with Sims. They will try and make him a pocket passer/progression QB. From what I’ve seen so far that’s a tall task. He’s a natural athlete who needs to play off instinct. In college ball that leads to big plays and wins. But since every player sees the NFL in their future they see college football as a stepping stone and now the college coaches are playing along.
The NFL is running their QBs more than ever. Lamar, Josh Allen, Kyler Murray are three top tier guys that run a lot.
I think Sims needs to watch more film of those types of guys(especially Allen, who Sims favors physically) and how they avoid getting blown up. Have to live to fight another day.
I also think we had issues with the zone read with certain backs in that liked to clamp down on what should be the QBs ball, which would make me call the play less if I was OC.
I think we will see him run a good bit this season.
 
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