Where the Program stands

[Vespidae]

8 wine doesn’t sound like a lot but it’s more than chan and paul averaged yearly. i get wanting high standards but you do get what you pay for. with one of the cheapest staffs in p5 you should expect poor results. maybe some boosters need to pony some money up and let us hire a better coach and improve facilities more regularly

Totally not my point. But thanks for playing.

 

[Vespidae]

I was going to clarify Garrett's meaning in parentheses, but didn't want to be accused of altering the quote.

He was saying if we want to compete for the Coastal Division and get this program to the next level, how are you going to get to that point if you can only win six games, or even seven games, in your fourth year?

Garrett's line in the sand at the time was 8 wins or bust. I don't think that's even a remote possibility (I projected 4 wins in the poll thread because I couldn't rationalize 5 looking at the schedule and I refuse to even think about another year of 3). If Tech manages to claw to 6 wins in year four, there will be some dissent but I think the coach would be given one more chance to return for the fifth year. Anything less and whale donors are going to move against him. And Stansbury would be in jeopardy himself because it was made clear to him last December that he was tying his own career to the current coach's success in 2022 when he doubled down with his "I have my man" endorsement of the coach in the face of those wanting change.

Thank you. My point is that the bar is moving. You might be moving X, but the competition is moving Y. So if your you're not at least moving Y, you wiill fall further behind.

 

[awbuzz]

Frankly, I think people are tired of excuses.

Amen

 

[awbuzz]

IMHO, this is a good overview by a third party observer.

Agree, a fair and honest review.

 

[GT33]

IMO GT's best opportunity to be a solid football program again is to be a Top 30-40 recruiting school and then an above avg program in terms of both player development and coaching. What system you use is less important than how well the players are developed and taught the system and how well the coaching staff can coach against opponents on gameday.

Exactly. We excelled at #1, completely crapped the bed on #2 and #3. We were 30-40 spots below P5 level on #2 and #3. It was that bad.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

@SOWEGA Jacket I honestly believe the plan was to get bigger, stronger, faster like any other team with a balanced, explosive offense & a high-risk, high reward defense that will win more than they lose when executed. The plan got screwed up massively by 2 things:


1) ADTS- i still contend Stansbury cut CGC at the knees by guaranteeing the 2019 class schollies. Leaving you with players that doesn’t fit your future plans

2) COVID- of course someone is going to say “Everyone else had to deal with COVID” Well, everyone wasn’t in the situation we were in. The worst thing that could have possibly happened to this team during its rebuild/transition was the free year.

Now you have guys occupying spots on the OL/DL when you suppose to be getting the new guys reps. This also screwed the recruiting numbers up for the 21 & 22 class

Plan delayed and while CGC deadline for results from fans & boosters remained the same

I just can’t buy this. It‘s an option and if you believe that I have no problem with it. I just don’t see it that way. Listen, you can go back and read my posts in year 1 and pre year 2. I was a Collins sunshine pumper for around 18-24 months. The Pitt game in 2020 to end the season and the NIU game turned me as the on field reality finally outweighed my heart. Just like when I realized Johnson had thrown in he towel on recruiting and with Taquon. I still believe if we win that Tennessee game that the end of Johnson’s tenure would have been different. Much like the Penn State loss 30 years ago that Tennessee game started a downward trajectory.

I just believe as we sit here today that Collins had no real rebuild plan. Of course the plan is always to get bigger, stronger, and faster players. That’s not a rebuild plan that’s an every year plan. Sure, he wanted to get more explosive on offense. He said all the right things which is why I was a fanboy. But, we couldn’t even kick field goals let alone the other harder things. Take a guy like Wing Green. He’s exactly what Collins was “rebuilding“ around. Bigger, stronger, faster. But the guy hasn‘t seen the field during this rebuild. Instead he runs out older portal guys who not only did nothing while here, but are now gone so they are of no help now. Green and others could have 8-10 starts under their belts. Instead, Collins will be fired and these guys will portal out.

Part of a rebuild is building. We are entering year 4 which means we should have a dependable QB, we should have a bevy of sophomores and juniors with lots of starts under their belts. We should have LB’s and DB’s who have 3 years of system under their belts and plenty of PT. Instead we have Charlie Thomas and a bunch of portal guys or guys who sat while #1, #2, and #3 got the playing time so they could sign UDFA deals (oh yeah, #2 was drafted in round 7). As a GT fan his being drafted will really help us beat VT this year. Collins couldn’t have done a worse rebuild if he intentionally tried. Of his two premier pieces, one is at Bama and the other is the same player as he was coming out of high school.

Usually rebuilds involve taking lumps while the young guys learn and build up on the field. Right now Collins is just rotating guys thru a program maxing out at 3-4 wins per year. That’s not rebuilding. If we were to believe TStan, Collins should only play freshmen and sophomores this year so by 2024 we have a chance. Instead by 2024 (if not 2023) we’ll lose the only QB Collins plays and we’ll get to start over again whether Collins is here or not.

 

[bobongo]

So who would CGC have brought in ? Did that affect playing time or roster spots ? Were there guys we missed on because of this ?

Answers: Nobody better, no, and no.
When Geoff gets the axe, I hope he takes the excuses with him.

 

[JacketFan137]

We beat an FCS team, one of the 2 or 3 worst P5 teams and a team that went 6-7.
The UNC win in hindsight turned out to be a mirage -they simply weren't what people thought they were at the beginning of the season. That was the one game that gave us fans hope and it sort of ended up being the squirrel who found the nut. We played better in that game by far than any other game we played all season and never played close to that well again.

Clemson was sort of a weird one as well as that came against an opponent that was actually more inept offensively than we were. Clemson didn't score 20 points in regulation against an FBS opponent until their 8th game of the season. That was a game where we played very clean (if not very well) on offense which allowed us to stay within striking distance.

In 3 years we have yet to beat a FBS opponent that finished the season with a winning record. Unfortunately I think that has hurt the fanbase's ability to have hope as they simply haven't seen anything on the field to suggest GT can win games against middle of the pack, much less upset good teams.

really a shame sims wasn’t available for clemson as that was a very likely win with him. yates was…something that game

 

[forensicbuzz]

I just can’t buy this. It‘s an option and if you believe that I have no problem with it. I just don’t see it that way. Listen, you can go back and read my posts in year 1 and pre year 2. I was a Collins sunshine pumper for around 18-24 months. The Pitt game in 2020 to end the season and the NIU game turned me as the on field reality finally outweighed my heart. Just like when I realized Johnson had thrown in he towel on recruiting and with Taquon. I still believe if we win that Tennessee game that the end of Johnson’s tenure would have been different. Much like the Penn State loss 30 years ago that Tennessee game started a downward trajectory.

I just believe as we sit here today that Collins had no real rebuild plan. Of course the plan is always to get bigger, stronger, and faster players. That’s not a rebuild plan that’s an every year plan. Sure, he wanted to get more explosive on offense. He said all the right things which is why I was a fanboy. But, we couldn’t even kick field goals let alone the other harder things. Take a guy like Wing Green. He’s exactly what Collins was “rebuilding“ around. Bigger, stronger, faster. But the guy hasn‘t seen the field during this rebuild. Instead he runs out older portal guys who not only did nothing while here, but are now gone so they are of no help now. Green and others could have 8-10 starts under their belts. Instead, Collins will be fired and these guys will portal out.

Part of a rebuild is building. We are entering year 4 which means we should have a dependable QB, we should have a bevy of sophomores and juniors with lots of starts under their belts. We should have LB’s and DB’s who have 3 years of system under their belts and plenty of PT. Instead we have Charlie Thomas and a bunch of portal guys or guys who sat while #1, #2, and #3 got the playing time so they could sign UDFA deals (oh yeah, #2 was drafted in round 7). As a GT fan his being drafted will really help us beat VT this year. Collins couldn’t have done a worse rebuild if he intentionally tried. Of his two premier pieces, one is at Bama and the other is the same player as he was coming out of high school.

Usually rebuilds involve taking lumps while the young guys learn and build up on the field. Right now Collins is just rotating guys thru a program maxing out at 3-4 wins per year. That’s not rebuilding. If we were to believe TStan, Collins should only play freshmen and sophomores this year so by 2024 we have a chance. Instead by 2024 (if not 2023) we’ll lose the only QB Collins plays and we’ll get to start over again whether Collins is here or not.

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not willing to give up on Collins. I don't like his rah-rah style either, but I'm willing to give him time. I think there was a limit in what he could do with his staff when hired and he had what he had. Maybe this was being a young coach and needing to learn or maybe it was financial, don't know, don't care. Covid hit and I think that pushed the program back a year, if not two, in that I think our OC would have been changed after Year 2, not Year 3 (and maybe others). I'm willing to be optimistic and give him more time, others aren't. Now we're in a situation where the wild, wild west is upon us, so who knows where we're going to be. Are we really going to fire a coach and have a payout when we're going to be trying to keep up with all that spending around us? We're already behind the eight-ball financially. I think as long as the big contributors (most of whom are not ready to part ways with Collins yet, despite what one vocal big donor said) are willing to give Collins time to figure it out, GTAA isn't worried about the little guys and the season ticket holders. The thought is that if he makes it, those season ticket holders will come back and if he doesn't, they'll come back with the next coach.

Entering Year 4? This is Year 4 like no Year 4 has ever been. Not making excuses, as performance matters, but no coach has ever had to go through what these coaches are going through now. No one knows what's going to happen. I spoke with a very good friend of mine last night at a youth baseball game about what going on and what's going to happen, and he said it's going to get even crazier. There's no going back and it's unstoppable. The day of the true student-athlete is over at the highest levels of college football and basketball.

(Note: not all of my comments are directly relevant to this post. I just used it as a place to say multiple things.)

 

[JacketFan137]

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not willing to give up on Collins. I don't like his rah-rah style either, but I'm willing to give him time. I think there was a limit in what he could do with his staff when hired and he had what he had. Maybe this was being a young coach and needing to learn or maybe it was financial, don't know, don't care. Covid hit and I think that pushed the program back a year, if not two, in that I think our OC would have been changed after Year 2, not Year 3 (and maybe others). I'm willing to be optimistic and give him more time, others aren't. Now we're in a situation where the wild, wild west is upon us, so who knows where we're going to be. Are we really going to fire a coach and have a payout when we're going to be trying to keep up with all that spending around us? We're already behind the eight-ball financially. I think as long as the big contributors (most of whom are not ready to part ways with Collins yet, despite what one vocal big donor said) are willing to give Collins time to figure it out, GTAA isn't worried about the little guys and the season ticket holders. The thought is that if he makes it, those season ticket holders will come back and if he doesn't, they'll come back with the next coach.

Entering Year 4? This is Year 4 like no Year 4 has ever been. Not making excuses, as performance matters, but no coach has ever had to go through what these coaches are going through now. No one knows what's going to happen. I spoke with a very good friend of mine last night at a youth baseball game about what going on and what's going to happen, and he said it's going to get even crazier. There's no going back and it's unstoppable. The day of the true student-athlete is over at the highest levels of college football and basketball.

(Note: not all of my comments are directly relevant to this post. I just used it as a place to say multiple things.)

people here don’t want to accept covid, NIL and the portal have been such a colossal impact on college football. the idea that a rebuild could have gone to plan is spoken by people who quite frankly have no idea what they’re talking about.

there were issues that would have derailed literally any coach that came in for us. collins is not a great coach but some of this people are just trying to pile on cause they have agendas/vendettas

 

[JacketFan137]

I just can’t buy this. It‘s an option and if you believe that I have no problem with it. I just don’t see it that way. Listen, you can go back and read my posts in year 1 and pre year 2. I was a Collins sunshine pumper for around 18-24 months. The Pitt game in 2020 to end the season and the NIU game turned me as the on field reality finally outweighed my heart. Just like when I realized Johnson had thrown in he towel on recruiting and with Taquon. I still believe if we win that Tennessee game that the end of Johnson’s tenure would have been different. Much like the Penn State loss 30 years ago that Tennessee game started a downward trajectory.

I just believe as we sit here today that Collins had no real rebuild plan. Of course the plan is always to get bigger, stronger, and faster players. That’s not a rebuild plan that’s an every year plan. Sure, he wanted to get more explosive on offense. He said all the right things which is why I was a fanboy. But, we couldn’t even kick field goals let alone the other harder things. Take a guy like Wing Green. He’s exactly what Collins was “rebuilding“ around. Bigger, stronger, faster. But the guy hasn‘t seen the field during this rebuild. Instead he runs out older portal guys who not only did nothing while here, but are now gone so they are of no help now. Green and others could have 8-10 starts under their belts. Instead, Collins will be fired and these guys will portal out.

Part of a rebuild is building. We are entering year 4 which means we should have a dependable QB, we should have a bevy of sophomores and juniors with lots of starts under their belts. We should have LB’s and DB’s who have 3 years of system under their belts and plenty of PT. Instead we have Charlie Thomas and a bunch of portal guys or guys who sat while #1, #2, and #3 got the playing time so they could sign UDFA deals (oh yeah, #2 was drafted in round 7). As a GT fan his being drafted will really help us beat VT this year. Collins couldn’t have done a worse rebuild if he intentionally tried. Of his two premier pieces, one is at Bama and the other is the same player as he was coming out of high school.

Usually rebuilds involve taking lumps while the young guys learn and build up on the field. Right now Collins is just rotating guys thru a program maxing out at 3-4 wins per year. That’s not rebuilding. If we were to believe TStan, Collins should only play freshmen and sophomores this year so by 2024 we have a chance. Instead by 2024 (if not 2023) we’ll lose the only QB Collins plays and we’ll get to start over again whether Collins is here or not.

already lost me saying we should have players in year 3. he’s only had 2 recruiting classes. unfortunately the first was a lame duck paul johnson class that was recruited for something entirely different and frankly not up to par for the level of expectations of the program.

to say he couldn’t have had a worse rebuild if he intentionally tried? come on man. i get we gotta pile on and be negative but this excessive negativity is getting really old.

collins sucks and we all know that but some of you guys are just speaking in hyperbole constantly like you’re in a competition to see who can be more negative. strange behavior

 

[BuzzDraft]

Answers: Nobody better, no, and no.
When Geoff gets the axe, I hope he takes the excuses with him.

And when he does, I doubt those making excuses on behalf of the current head coach will admit he left the "talent cupboard bare" for the next coach like they did against CPJ, despite all the claims of his "elite recruitng". His last two classes are #47 and #53 which is certainly not "elite" compared to prior, and his one decent 2020 class being severely downgraded by the fact that so many of the best recruits from them rushed to the exits early.

 

[Ibeeballin]

So who would CGC have brought in ? Did that affect playing time or roster spots ? Were there guys we missed on because of this ?

Saying who we would’ve brought is just a hypothetical. We just know we wouldn’t be as selective with our revruits.

The extra year granted an extra year to guys like a injury prone Kenny Cooper, Brooks, & Lay to take much needed snaps from critical areas. You rather your hand be forced to play Vaipulu, Lockhart, Stone.

I’m not on trail, so i can’t definitively answer that. It definitely affected recruiting numbers that made us more selective and not have the class size than anticipated

 

[Ibeeballin]

And when he does, I doubt those making excuses on behalf of the current head coach will admit he left the "talent cupboard bare" for the next coach like they did against CPJ, despite all the claims of his "elite recruitng". His last two classes are #47 and #53 which is certainly not "elite" compared to prior, and his one decent 2020 class being severely downgraded by the fact that so many of the best recruits from them rushed to the exits early.

When you only have 14-15 signees your ranking will be low, unless you’re signing only Top 250 rated players. This has been hammered home numerous times

 

[bobongo]

And when he does, I doubt those making excuses on behalf of the current head coach will admit he left the "talent cupboard bare" for the next coach like they did against CPJ, despite all the claims of his "elite recruitng". His last two classes are #47 and #53 which is certainly not "elite" compared to prior, and his one decent 2020 class being severely downgraded by the fact that so many of the best recruits from them rushed to the exits early.

I think all told Geoff did okay recruiting-wise until the wheels came off the last half of last season. Then the recruiting went south and some of his best poorly coached players vamoosed.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

people here don’t want to accept covid, NIL and the portal have been such a colossal impact on college football. the idea that a rebuild could have gone to plan is spoken by people who quite frankly have no idea what they’re talking about.

there were issues that would have derailed literally any coach that came in for us. collins is not a great coach but some of this people are just trying to pile on cause they have agendas/vendettas

I respect your opinion but disagree, Collins is entering year 4. Are we in better shape now than when we entered year one under Collins? If you believe so please tell me why. The fact that we have to think about that tells us all we need to know about this rebuild. And I’m not piling on at all. He earned his record after 3 years so people who point it out aren’t piling in.

 

[GT33]

And when he does, I doubt those making excuses on behalf of the current head coach will admit he left the "talent cupboard bare" for the next coach like they did against CPJ, despite all the claims of his "elite recruitng". His last two classes are #47 and #53 which is certainly not "elite" compared to prior, and his one decent 2020 class being severely downgraded by the fact that so many of the best recruits from them rushed to the exits early.

When you take the average rating of our recruits we're in the low 30's and basically middle of the pack in the ACC. We're basically making no inroads and recruiting to our historical mean for the type of system we're running. We do have two 4 star DL this class, the transfer kid from Buffalo and one from Auburn that can probably help right away, plus the ones from Clemson and Louisville that may help. The problem is everyone else we're supposedly chasing to get competitive again is doing what we're doing and doing it better. Hopefully the coachig upgrades make a huge difference.

 

[Pointer]

I am responding not in an "official" capacity but as a long time member here...the OP here was thoughtful and well crafted. But has anything new (one way or the other) been said on this entire topic over the last - 12 months?

Most of it is the same wrong information he's been saying for a long time.

 

[Pointer]

@SOWEGA Jacket I honestly believe the plan was to get bigger, stronger, faster like any other team with a balanced, explosive offense & a high-risk, high reward defense that will win more than they lose when executed. The plan got screwed up massively by 2 things:


1) ADTS- i still contend Stansbury cut CGC at the knees by guaranteeing the 2019 class schollies. Leaving you with players that doesn’t fit your future plans

2) COVID- of course someone is going to say “Everyone else had to deal with COVID” Well, everyone wasn’t in the situation we were in. The worst thing that could have possibly happened to this team during its rebuild/transition was the free year.

Now you have guys occupying spots on the OL/DL when you suppose to be getting the new guys reps. This also screwed the recruiting numbers up for the 21 & 22 class

Plan delayed and while CGC deadline for results from fans & boosters remained the same

If anything, COVID should have helped Collins. Basically made up for the 2019 class... If you really think that was a major detriment to begin with.

 

[yeti92]

i get wanting high standards but you do get what you pay for.

When it comes to hiring college football coaches that is just not true. So many overpaid coaches now collecting buyouts because they weren't worth the money they were receiving in the first place.