Where the Program stands

[bobongo]

people won’t want to listen to this even though it’s facts. three-year old excuses.

FIFY

 

[JacketFan137]

FIFY

they should have been better last year but these are factual statements. paul left absolutely nothing to work with and it was always gonna take a while to work around when we went to a modern offense. i get you want to peddle your agendas but if you knew ball you know this was gonna be a long process

 

[WreckinGT]

You can’t analyze where the program stands without understanding where the program stood when Collins took over.

You actually can. RamblinRed did it nicely. You can evaluate the state of a program at anytime. If you need to pull in more data from the three years prior to explain the current state then you aren't really evaluating the state anymore, you are making excuses for the state.

 

[JacketFan137]

You actually can. RamblinRed did it nicely. You can evaluate the state of a program at anytime. If you need to pull in more data from the three years prior to explain the current state then you aren't really evaluating the state anymore, you are making excuses for the state.

you need to provide context to things to make a point. this was always gonna take a while

 

[WreckinGT]

you need to provide context to things to make a point. this was always gonna take a while

A point irrelevant to the context of the thread. This isn't a should we fire Collins thread. It's a where are we at thread.

 

[bobongo]

they should have been better last year but these are factual statements. paul left absolutely nothing to work with and it was always gonna take a while to work around when we went to a modern offense. i get you want to peddle your agendas but if you knew ball you know this was gonna be a long process

No, that is not a factual statement. Neither is the one about my alleged "agenda", which you haul out ad nauseum. Three year old excuses is what I see, and they're getting stale.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

people won’t want to listen to this even though it’s facts.

Frankly, I think people are tired of excuses.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

So, back to where the program stands. Do we feel like we will have a better team this year than the previous three years or are we taking a step back on the OL and DL?

 

[JacketFan137]

So, back to where the program stands. Do we feel like we will have a better team this year than the previous three years or are we taking a step back on the OL and DL?

LOL some of the paul johnson stan’s really make this place a chore to use. they get to determine when threads are on topic or not based on whether or not you agree with what is being said. reality is hard some times i guess

anyways, hard to step back when you’re against the wall already. things can’t really get worse. hard not to believe the right side of the line will be better now that we’ve moved on from some of the guys who played right tackle (not naming player because that is taboo apparently).

on the d line we ranked 100th in sacks per game so it wasn’t like we were strong there either.

while we lost players it’s a MAJOR stretch to pretend like the loss of talent was that significant. it’s just a matter of coaching the players up, getting the current roster to the next level S&C wise and adjusting scheme to cover the deficiencies. i am much more confident that the offense can improve based on the new coordinator we’ve brought in

 

[JacketFan137]

A point irrelevant to the context of the thread. This isn't a should we fire Collins thread. It's a where are we at thread.

where are we at based on the progress of a rebuild from a program left in a sour state. i don’t think it’s too crazy to explain what is being done over the course of several years to evaluate where we are at.

 

[Backstreetbuzz]

where are we at based on the progress of a rebuild from a program left in a sour state. i don’t think it’s too crazy to explain what is being done over the course of several years to evaluate where we are at.

Our defense has been bad under Collins. However, if it were not for the 8 minute drives limiting our opponents to about 8 or 9 possessions a game, our defense would have been world class ugly under Johnson. Our defense was coming from a very, very dark place.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

We are not in a rebuild. Some of you keep talking about a rebuild as if there is some sort of master plan. The only master plan around GT is to push sports out by the admin. Our coach rather than rebuilding is in survivor mode. We should be entering year 4 of a rebuild but our coach made some very poor choices that has placed him in a desperate position. He created that, not Johnson and not whining fans. He just couldn’t help himself with all the empty rhetoric. All he had to do was work and everyone was prepared to give him time. Instead, he runs his mouth but hasn’t delivered any results. And last year we saw he took a dark turn in talking about fans and addressing the media. This year is going to be worse unless he has finally learned that words mean very little and just coaches to results. We are entering year 4 and not one of us know what we will get from the QB position. That’s just ridiculous and is all on Collins. And on defense we all know exactly what we will get. An unprepared group who will be ranked last in the ACC.

 

[cthenrys]

You can’t analyze where the program stands without understanding where the program stood when Collins took over.

Let’s go back. We had an offense that was recruited for the option. 280 lb OTs are fine in the option, but they can’t pass block well enough for a balanced offense. This isn’t a knock on Johnson, he recruited what worked for his offense. The QB needs to be a runner, not a passer. WRs need to be skilled at blocking, not route running. TE’s? A backs don’t work well as TE’s.

Then there is the defense. Even the most avid Johnson apologist has to admit that the defenses weren’t good. We lost 8 starters from Johnson’s last team and the one that Collins inherited. One of the downsides of the option is that it inhibits D recruiting.

The biggest need when Collins took over was at the line of scrimmage—on both sides. We needed OL and DL, and still do. Headed into last season, Collins had 2 recruiting classes to recruit. Why? The December signing date means that a newly hired coach is stuck with what the previous coach had recruited—and on offense that was guys suited for the option. Then, you don’t win with FR and SOPHS. Further, as O’Leary said, the further you are from the LOS the sooner you can play. The portal has been a mixed bag at best. LOS talent and depth hasn’t been there, but it’s improving.

Knowledgeable observers knew that the transition would be painful. They knew it would take 4-5 years at best to get the program in order. It has taken time to get the talent we need to be competitive. The recent portal guys generally have 3-4 years of eligibility, which is a good sign, but we are still putting the pieces in place to be competitive .

Coaching wise, the staff was one of the lowest paid in P5. Our coordinators only made a little bit more than UGa’s lowest paid position coach ($425K and $450K vs. $400K per USA Today) . How many P5 teams had coordinators making less than $500K? The position coaches were paid less, and paying to live in Atlanta. I don’t believe that pay scale was Collins’ decision. Do people really believe we can be competitive with top teams without paying competitively for coaches? I believe—but don’t know—that this issue finally came to the attention of some people willing to write checks, which is why we saw such staff turnover since last year.

A head coach doesn’t need to be great at X’s and O’s or development. Dodd wasn’t. After Graves and Broyles left, his record was pretty mediocre. Dabo isn’t an X’s and O’s guy, and people made fun of him after he lost to Spurrier at SC for five straight years. How did that work out? Clemson spent money on assistants. Tech hasn’t.

People accuse me of being a Collins fan. He has recruited at a higher level, which we needed. But is he the right guy? I don’t know, but I am willing to give him time. Time, under the circumstances is 5 years-- due to COVID, the December signing date, the coaching budget, and the talent on hand when he took over. And don’t tell me about Rivals and 247 recruiting rankings as a measure of team talent. Such BS.

Then there is the schedule for 2022.

I’m being patient for two more seasons.

Whew. Thanks for the refreshing new take on this.

 

[JacketFan137]

We are not in a rebuild. Some of you keep talking about a rebuild as if there is some sort of master plan. The only master plan around GT is to push sports out by the admin. Our coach rather than rebuilding is in survivor mode. We should be entering year 4 of a rebuild but our coach made some very poor choices that has placed him in a desperate position. He created that, not Johnson and not whining fans. He just couldn’t help himself with all the empty rhetoric. All he had to do was work and everyone was prepared to give him time. Instead, he runs his mouth but hasn’t delivered any results. And last year we saw he took a dark turn in talking about fans and addressing the media. This year is going to be worse unless he has finally learned that words mean very little and just coaches to results. We are entering year 4 and not one of us know what we will get from the QB position. That’s just ridiculous and is all on Collins. And on defense we all know exactly what we will get. An unprepared group who will be ranked last in the ACC.

how can you say this wasn’t a rebuild? collins took over a mediocre at beat team with some major issues and was tasked with changing the team to something completely different. has he done well? absolutely not and literally no one is pretending like it is going great.

your qb criticism doesn’t hold much weight either. college teams that aren’t at the very top rarely have an idea what to expect from the qb position. in the years between justin thomas’ departure and collins we had no idea what to expect from the qb position either.

idk you can criticize a lot of things about collins and what he’s done but some of the things you’re saying don’t make much sense

 

[JacketFan137]

Our defense has been bad under Collins. However, if it were not for the 8 minute drives limiting our opponents to about 8 or 9 possessions a game, our defense would have been world class ugly under Johnson. Our defense was coming from a very, very dark place.

yeah i don’t think people realize the impact that running the option had on the roster construction and the issues it can cause. having to limit depth elsewhere to roster a stable of ABs and BBs is tough. we were consistently awful on defense and johnson flat out refused to address those issues. they needed as big of an overhaul as the offense

 

[4shotB]

Whew. Thanks for the refreshing new take on this.

I am responding not in an "official" capacity but as a long time member here...the OP here was thoughtful and well crafted. But has anything new (one way or the other) been said on this entire topic over the last - 12 months?

 

[iceeater1969]

I am responding not in an "official" capacity but as a long time member here...the OP here was thoughtful and well crafted. But has anything new (one way or the other) been said on this entire topic over the last - 12 months?

DONT BLAME U FOR WAXING PHILOSOPHICAL = unofficially saying " there is nothing new under the sun" .

I think cgc really sold tstan on " At gt if u recruit well U don't need HERO coach (cpj) and a special offense.


Now we have a much more " seasoned " staff without a " special" anything. This may beat Duke and the acc teams have bad year but is doomed to aversge.

Can we something innovative in scholarships and coaching for the OL and DL since this area is key ?

Cpj discussed offering longer term scholarship .

That might work w linemen who want an MBA in 5 years.
Can we add consulting and staff support to ol and dl?

GT could be known for developing OL - to NFL or MBA

My shoulder surgeon " The Jock Dock" - was a star at Baylor and then with Washinton Redskins before he went to Harvard.

Son and his former player ( Byron Bell who walked on at Panthers then had 12 nfl career ) are working to start a camp for ol dl that specializes teaching techniques for arm battles.

While at GB Byron said the had a virtual reality training set up for the OL .

 

[cthenrys]

I am responding not in an "official" capacity but as a long time member here...the OP here was thoughtful and well crafted. But has anything new (one way or the other) been said on this entire topic over the last - 12 months?

Fair but replying to a thread on the state of a program that has won 9 in three years with “hey you know he had to take over the 3O… and COViD…. And…”

 

[Northeast Stinger]

We are not in a rebuild. Some of you keep talking about a rebuild as if there is some sort of master plan. The only master plan around GT is to push sports out by the admin. Our coach rather than rebuilding is in survivor mode. We should be entering year 4 of a rebuild but our coach made some very poor choices that has placed him in a desperate position. He created that, not Johnson and not whining fans. He just couldn’t help himself with all the empty rhetoric. All he had to do was work and everyone was prepared to give him time. Instead, he runs his mouth but hasn’t delivered any results. And last year we saw he took a dark turn in talking about fans and addressing the media. This year is going to be worse unless he has finally learned that words mean very little and just coaches to results. We are entering year 4 and not one of us know what we will get from the QB position. That’s just ridiculous and is all on Collins. And on defense we all know exactly what we will get. An unprepared group who will be ranked last in the ACC.

This is a little more harsh than I would have put it but this is basically right on the money. I was a supporter when Collins arrived and excited to see what an “elite program” would look like. Branding and trying to ramp up recruiting was all music to my ears.

Now here we are four years later and some fans can’t quit blaming Johnson. I suspect if 10 years from now we still don’t have an elite program it will be because Johnson permanently destroyed the program with the “triple option.”

I’m just bone weary looking for some ray of hope while hearing lots of words from the coach and seeing no discernible progress. Four years is long enough to implement a plan, if you have one. This year will tell.

 

[slugboy]

I think it’s possible to believe that the transition from CPJ was going to be difficult and also believe that Collins has done a really bad job of it. I think Collins had a lot of challenges, some expected and some unexpected, but other coaches have done more with less.

• Defense: Our defense has been bad over the past decade. In the past three years, it’s gotten worse. We have not seen year-over-year progression in our defense—depending on how you look, it may have gotten worse. We’ve turned over everyone who started at the beginning of the Collins era and also turned over most of the coaches. There’s a possibility of progress with the new coaches, but there’s no reason to expect it. This is the area where any turnaround coach would start because it’s the easiest to fix.
• Linebackers: The main change here is a new coach? Again, we’ll have to wait and see here.
• DL: We’ve had some turnover here. There’s no obvious reason to expect a major change here.
• OL: We've turned over the players on the offensive line a lot over the last few years. We have less continuity than last year. Key has been teaching for three years, and some of the players he recruited and has been teaching should be taking over now.
• QB: We've got a third-year QB who has started all three years. We have a new QB coach and new OC. He's got to be a quick study and make good reads and decisions.
• RB: We've got good RBs, if they can find an outlet.
• WRs and TEs: They have enough talent to get open and catch the ball. This isn't changed since last year.

Aside from the new coaches and us missing Gibbs, I feel the same going into this season as I did last year.